Feedback on Supplement Routine

Diet and Nutrition
1

Hey everyone, I was referred to the Biotest forums by TNation’s FB page for feedback and posted but that place is like a graveyard, so I came here. I’m curious to know what y’all think about this and if there are any specific recommendations you can make, or if everything looks fine.

A little info: I’m a 39 year old male, about 170 lbs, 15-18% bf, 5’8", and two bloodwork tests show somewhat okay total T levels (739 with the range of 250-1100), but bottom of the range “free T” levels (48 with a range of 46-224). My doctor Rx’d T before even seeing bloodwork just based on symptoms (no sexual issues, thankfully, but practically everything else related to low T) but I really wanted to see what I was able to do with supplements and tidying up my diet a little more and getting more recuperative sleep before resorting to T. Cortisol levels were 50% above the reference range for the first measurement of the day and slightly elevated the rest of the day. So, I decided to try a barrage of supplements to see what I could do. I’ve also added a TON of carbs to my diet and cut back on fat to compensate for the calories whereas before I was getting between 30-100g of carbs per day, depending on the day.

Also, I have ADHD and take Vyvanse (amphetamine) and the only reason I mention that is because Vitamin C (ascorbic acid) increases elimination of amphetamines making them not work very well and that’s why I take my multi-vitamin (contains Vitamin C) in the evening.

I wake up at 5 am M-F to workout and get up whenever I wake up on Saturday and Sunday (usually between 5:45-6:45) and either do my recovery routine (Saturday) or workout (Sunday). Here’s my supplement/vitamin schedule as I have it currently devised…

5 AM - Prior to workout
Vyvanse
Creatine HCl (3 capsules at 750mg each)
Vitamin B12 (1 chewy at 500mcg)
Plazma (15g protein)
With regards to Plazma pre-workout, since I’m working out first thing in the morning and Plazma is the only thing I consume before working out, do I need to add additional protein since it only has 15g? I typically workout for about 60-70 minutes including my warm-up and cool-down/stretch. 95% of my workout is resistance focused but I rest as little as possible which obviously provides a lot of HIIT-like cardio.

Post workout
8oz whole milk, pasture raised, grass fed
NutraBio Protein Powder - 1 scoop ~ 29 grams of protein
Collagen Hydrolysate (2 tablespoons) ~ 12 grams of protein
Creatine HCl (3 capsules at 750mg each)
Alpha Male (2 capsules - 5 days on, 2 days off)
Rhodiola (2 capsules at 100mg each - 5 days on, 2 days off)
it was recommended by T-Nation to focus on Plazma pre-workout and don’t worry about the fact that I’m taking Alpha Male and Rhodiola with a “meal” post-workout as the pre-workout was far more important than the slight difference in absorption I’ll experience by taking Alpha with food, post workout

1+ hours after lunch (fasted)
Alpha Male (2 capsules - 5 days on, 2 days off)
Rhodiola (2 capsules at 100mg each - 5 days on, 2 days off)
ZMA (3 capsules at 30mg Zinc, 450mg Magnesium, 10.5mg Vitamin B6 each)

PM with dinner
Multi-vitamin (2 tablets - multivitamin) (has vitamin C and will interfere with Vyvanse so I take it later in the day)
Omegas (4 capsules at 1500mg DHA, 1500mg EPA, 300mg DPA total)

PM before bed
Melatonin “Advanced”/controlled release (1 pill at 10mg)
Thorne Vitamin D3 (1 capsule at 5000 IU)
Res-V (3 capsules at 200mg each)
Boron (2 capsules at 2mg each)
Egg Protein shake (25g protein)

So… any feedback on the questions I asked above or any other recommendations or does this look pretty solid?

Thanks!

2

1 scoop of Plazma is good for a workout of 60-90 minutes, but not if you are fasted from sleep when you take it. It’s only about 210 calories and your liver will pull in those carbs (38 grams) real fast. If you take it 30 minutes before training, your liver probably will have taken up all the carbs by the time you start to train and you may even get low blood sugar. Don’t take it too far in advance-I’d prefer during warm up sets. I have monitored blood sugar levels on Plazma, and also reviewed literature on highly structured cyclic dextrin, and it has been proven to absorb just as fast as pure glucose which means that it will trigger insulin primarily from 30-90 minutes after consumption. You could go for a Finibar at home, and take in the Plazma during your warm up sets. Sometimes I will add a scoop of Mag-10 to the Plazma scoop to bring the protein up to 25 grams.

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@mertdawg Thanks!
Re: hypoglycemia - Historically, I’ve just trained in the morning on an empty stomach and haven’t had any issues with low blood sugar. I acknowledge it’s possible it impacted my performance levels though, and that’s why I’m going down the Plazma-path to see if it helps.
Within the past 2 weeks, I started drinking a protein shake plus a tablespoon (1 serving) of chocolate syrup mixed in 8 oz of milk. This was giving me about 24g of carbs, 38g of protein, and about 8g of fat (if I remember it all exactly). Honestly, I didn’t notice any difference from working out fasted. But, I’m wondering, if as you mentioned, my liver just sucked it all up.
What do you think about continuing with the protein shake as detailed above, and then starting Plazma with my warm-up set as you mentioned?
I assume it would still be smart to follow the workout with more protein?

Does everything else seem more or less in-line?

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That creation dose is insignificant. You should either increase it to several grams or drop it completely.

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I’m assuming autocorrect jumped in and changed creatine to creation. If that’s the case, I’m already on the high end of the recommended pre-workout serving and beyond the recommended post-work serving. Could this difference in dosing versus your recommendation be because monohydrate is dosed differently than hydrochloride?

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6

Most likely just a typo.

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Ha! Whoops!!! Thanks for pointing that out! Fixed!

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No problem. I swear I’m not a typo Nazi, but 225 mg. looked pretty light.

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I don’t know. It would be appropriate for my three-year-old son! LOL

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So regarding hypoglycemia, hypoglycemia with fasted training IMO is not that common because the body will release cortisol, but insulin levels will be very low, so often fasted training will raise blood sugar a little, at least on a 12 hour fast or so.

What happens with fast carbs like glucose and highly structured cyclic dextrin such as in Plazma is that these cause a fast rise in blood sugar and insulin levels, THEN you start to train hard with insulin in your system but the carbs get removed from the bloodstream fast and often there is extra insulin that causes what is known as “rebound hypoglycemia”. Highly branched cyclic dextrin such as what is in Plazma has been shown in some studies to raise blood sugar almost as fast as glucose does, but with some evidence of an extended tail, plus Plazma has a special form of fructose called isomaltulose that can only be broken down in the intestines, and so should provide a small glycemic “tail”, but Plazma also has a significant amount of Leucine which further raises insulin levels. I have had mild rebound hypoglycemia from 2 scoops of Plazma followed by intense training. So what I am saying is that it is better not to drink it 30 minutes ahead of time IMO because insulin will be high when you start to work out. If you take it during your warmups, then the insulin response will no be so extreme because a) exercise slows glucose absorption, b) exercise allows some of the absorbed glucose to enter muscles without extra insulin so that blood sugar will not spike as high in the first 30 minutes and so the pancreas will be less likely to oversecrete insulin.

1 Like
11

You take a lot of shit.

12

Thanks @mertdawg! Really helpful and makes complete sense. It also helps me understand, along with your other helpful posts, possibly why my blood work came back the way it did.

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Oh, @mertdawg - I forgot to follow up on something I asked earlier… Do you think I should continue with the protein shake when I first wake up and then around 5:30-5:40 when I start my warm-up, begin sipping on Plazma?