[quote]TimmyC wrote:
[quote]Ct. Rockula wrote:
[quote]LarryDavid wrote:
Can’t we all just be friends?[/quote]
no. in fact, i think you’re racist! you wwanna be friends so I can be your token black guy? that’s fucked up!!![/quote]
token black guy ?
i thought you were a goth chick[/quote]
you aint the only one. some of the pm’s I get are fucking hilarious.
[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
Some of the above is pretty flawed in my opinion. I don’t know how thinks work in NZ, but when a black guy calls a white guy here a “white boy”, his intent is to be racist. Historical context has no bearing at all in my opinion - intent does. I think comedy can go a long way toward healing our differences and making bridges but there really is no serious debate about white v. black comedians and moreoever, white and black media as far as I’m concerned.
If a white comic broaches races, he must do so very carefully. Blacks appear to me to have free reign with it. And black media, like radio in particular, has no such problem like Imus encountered when he broached a racial subject. Each week, I hear something on radio that would get a white DJ fired or suspended.
There absolutely is a double standard in my opinion. And whatever the reason for its existence is unimportant to me but I do believe the existence of a double standard that allows for ANY racism keeps us apart ultimately. It gives the white people that harbor those emotions an excuse to hold on to them. It alienates white people that might otherwise embrace a multi-cultural existence. Comedy has a way of taking the sting away from stereotypes but I’ve seen comedy address it menacingly and cruely too.
Anyway, just my opinions - racism is a pretty complex topic and probably too complex for fair treatment and debate in the confines of an internet chat room.
That said, the premise of the OP is nonsense as I’ve spelled out before. His arguments are weak. And, dress codes exist in the real world, not just the NBA. Hell, my biggest problem dressing for work is casual Fridays or when an employer has been full time casual. Do you wear something that you would normally wear, or do you just put on a more relaxed relatively socially acceptable (for your office) “uniform”. If you’re wise, you do the latter because like it or not, you are socially judged by your “uniform”.
And by the way, it was not that long ago when NBA players were all dressing up. The dress down look is a recent event. We need go no further back than Jordan’s era. And prior to that (Irving, et als) guys were wearing furs, suits, etc. The NBA, its coaches and players, has a long history of “dressing up”. The NBA has an absolute right to impose a dress code and as someone else pointed out, as long as it’s applied evenly, it’s not racist - not even a close call.
[/quote]
“White boy” is not racist because you don’t really know the persons intent, he could just be angry whereby hes simply acknowledging a primary difference between you and him in a common ‘hood’ phrase. Like I’ve heard my Maori, Polynesian and Asians friends call me or other people “white boy” and it isn’t racist lol. Theres nothing behind that.
Look I know that its injustice when there is a double standard like you outlined but people can’t ignore that there was segregation only like 50 years and civil and social inequality still exists for black people. White people are still the majority. That alone basically incubates a double standard.
It’s the ‘boy’ attached to the ‘white’ that makes it slightly offensive or anoying. Referring to someone as ‘white boy’ seems like it’s putting that person below the status of ‘man’.
However ‘white boy’ can also be used in good nature and fun. Depends on how it is said I guess.
Just my opinion.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
If a white comic broaches races, he must do so very carefully. Blacks appear to me to have free reign with it. And black media, like radio in particular, has no such problem like Imus encountered when he broached a racial subject. Each week, I hear something on radio that would get a white DJ fired or suspended.
[/quote]
LOL. So when Tiger Woods get caught having sex, everyone thinks it is ok that he loses a few contracts and gets raked through the mud, but Imus says that black women basketball players are “nappy headed hos” and people act surprised that he experienced what he did?
Along with great fame comes great responsibility. The better you are known, the more weight your actions and words carry.
Imus didn’t “broach a racial subject”. He made a direct insult that people across the country heard.
I personally wasn’t affected at all by his statement…and I doubt most black people were aside from the women of that sport. However, WHO you are has much say so on how much affect your words have.
Some unknown tv exec might be able to get away with that. Would the president? Hell no.[/quote]
I understand your view point, I’m not sure we’re talking apples to apples though. So are you suggesting that we grade racism on a fame curve? No racism should be tolerable. Like I said, the liberties that some take, can affect those that are neutral and certainly does not advance any cause for tolerance. It breeds resentment in some, and more racism in others. Tiger loses the same endorsements as a white athlete in my opinion in similiar situation.
And furthermore, Tiger is a really bad example for your argument as the white media has largely been hands off on him and his image. His daliances were the worst kept secret on the tour and his true image/actions have never been squeaky clean. He’s been breaking and bending the rules since he was an amateur. And he’s been given a pass. Every single day on black radio, I hear an insult hurled at whites.
X, it matters not that some DJ in the philly market might not be big enough to get the attention that an Imus received, but the negative affect on all of us is the same, if not more, because it occurs in every market and is more widespread in said community. Wrong is wrong. I understand your argument, but it should not be tolerated at all - not if whites and blacks are both serious about erasing racism.
[quote]Gettnitdone wrote:
“White boy” is not racist because you don’t really know the persons intent, he could just be angry whereby hes simply acknowledging a primary difference between you and him in a common ‘hood’ phrase. Like I’ve heard my Maori, Polynesian and Asians friends call me or other people “white boy” and it isn’t racist lol. Theres nothing behind that.
Look I know that its injustice when there is a double standard like you outlined but people can’t ignore that there was segregation only like 50 years and civil and social inequality still exists for black people. White people are still the majority. That alone basically incubates a double standard.[/quote]
Listen, you know in what context I consider it racist. Let’s not pretend it’s not used the same as “nigger”. It is. No one says cracker anymore - not where I’m from and frankly, “cracker” never stung a bit. Can white boy be a term of endearment? Yes. Just like “nigger” can be used in harmless slang or banter. Intent is everything. I agree with you.
The problem with your latter argument, is that most of us were not alive or responsible for the sins of our past. So most whites under 45 or so, are like “what the fuck?”. We recognize there were injustices in the past but if we allow a double standard to exist, like I said elsewhere in this thread, it breeds more racism on both sides.
It promotes “us v. them” when it should be just “us”. I’m about the last guy in the world you could call a racist - and I’ll tell you very matter of factly, I bristle at the double standard. Imagine what someone on the fence feels or what someone with racist leanings feels? It fuels more racism. And, you’re teaching a whole generation of blacks that it’s okay to talk and feel this way.
As an aside, I think the best racial bridge in the world is sport. I grew up playing basketball all my life. In my opinion, you cannot dedicate yourself to a sport where you are exposed to other races and come out the other end a racist. By spending time together, we learn that our differences are not that great, and certainly no reason to hate each other.
And I’ve had that journey in other respects as well thru various hobbies and pursuits where I’ve been exposed to different walks of life, different parts of the country, different cultures and I have watched all my preconceived notions wash away before my eyes.
Good people come from all different races and backgrounds, just like the bad.
[quote]Gettnitdone wrote:
“White boy” is not racist because you don’t really know the persons intent, he could just be angry whereby hes simply acknowledging a primary difference between you and him in a common ‘hood’ phrase. Like I’ve heard my Maori, Polynesian and Asians friends call me or other people “white boy” and it isn’t racist lol. Theres nothing behind that.
[/quote]
I don’t know how some phrases translate in NZ, but if a black guy calls me white boy in an angry manner it IS racist. It’s pretty much the definition of racist when you think of it. If in the heat of the moment the thought that comes up between you and the guy you’re arguing with is the difference of your races then that is racist. Example, if someone steals your parking spot and the 1st thing that comes to mind is “black motherfucker” or “white boy” took my spot, then I believe racism is involved in that comment. There’s no need to acknowledge the primary difference between you and the guy who took your spot. Unless the spot was reserved for blacks or whites only.
Gee, who knew “play that funky music, white boy” offended so many of you?
Reparations?
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Gee, who knew “play that funky music, white boy” offended so many of you?
Reparations?
[/quote]
when I see metalica’s black album I cry
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Gee, who knew “play that funky music, white boy” offended so many of you?
Reparations?
[/quote]
Well I think we acknowledged there’s a huge difference when an artist such as musician or comedian makes these statements in his piece of work. Also, my example was the term being used during a heated argument in which race had nothing to do with the argument. Apples and Oranges. So no, that song doesn’t offend me so no reparations are required.
Whiteboy is always said with malicious intent, today. Even when it’s used by black people watching Travis Pastrana jump his dirtbike off a building in Vegas saying “that crazy white boy is going to kill himself”. It’s still meant as a term to elevate themselves. I can easily understand how the people using the term don’t feel that way when they use it but it is what it is. It is a completely useless term. Well not exactly, it’s useful at causing tension.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Gee, who knew “play that funky music, white boy” offended so many of you?
Reparations?
[/quote]
Uh, I believe the band, Wild Cherry, was white 
So, the analog to your comment (I know your comment was tongue in cheek and yes it’s funny ) is Justin Timberlake adopting a hook in his song tantamount to “dance nigga” v. the difference of Jay-Z uttering it.
Reparations? Yes. Keep the mule. I sure could use 40 acres though
The more I ponder “white boy”, I do not ever accept it as anything other than an insult and racist. Unless your self-esteem is so low that someone telling you that you can do this or that good, “for a white boy” is your idea of a compliment, or that you accept “you’re okay for a white boy” or something along those lines, white boy is derisive and racist. “White boy” is an insult. Period. When someone calls me white boy, I quickly return it with a “black boy”.
wouldnt “crazy white boy” be the same as “big black dude”?
[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
Whiteboy is always said with malicious intent, today. Even when it’s used by black people watching Travis Pastrana jump his dirtbike off a building in Vegas saying “that crazy white boy is going to kill himself”. It’s still meant as a term to elevate themselves. I can easily understand how the people using the term don’t feel that way when they use it but it is what it is. It is a completely useless term. Well not exactly, it’s useful at causing tension. [/quote]
This has to be a joke. It is a STEREOTYPE. White people get labeled as the type to do ridiculous shit…like jam a lightbulb up their ass on Jackass or glide down 3 flights of stairs right down the railing. That doesn’t mean no other races do the same, but it is a stereotpye, and frankly, you guys seem to have no problem at all stereotyping everyone else.
I mean, didn’t you use “crackspot” or some term in relation to basketball players in this thread?
Why?
If someone does say “that crazy white boy is going to kill himself”, how the fuck is that any different than what everyone else deals with?
Are you above stereotypes while the rest of us are cursed by them?
Hell, are any of you actually even fucking offended or are you just bullshitting so you can claim to be victims?
When the hell has “white boy” ever been used to truly subjugate the entire white race?
When did it match the power it had against blacks or its wide spread use even in professional settings just 40 years ago?
It didn’t. Why the hell are you complaining like it has ever held any of you back at all in any way whatsoever?
[quote]Professor X wrote:
This has to be a joke. It is a STEREOTYPE. White people get labeled as the type to do ridiculous shit…like jam a lightbulb up their ass on Jackass or glide down 3 flights of stairs right down the railing. That doesn’t mean no other races do the same, but it is a stereotpye, and frankly, you guys seem to have no problem at all stereotyping everyone else.
I mean, didn’t you use “crackspot” or some term in relation to basketball players in this thread?
Why?
If someone does say “that crazy white boy is going to kill himself”, how the fuck is that any different than what everyone else deals with?
Are you above stereotypes while the rest of us are cursed by them?
Hell, are any of you actually even fucking offended or are you just bullshitting so you can claim to be victims?
When the hell has “white boy” ever been used to truly subjugate the entire white race?
When did it match the power it had against blacks or its wide spread use even in professional settings just 40 years ago?
It didn’t. Why the hell are you complaining like it has ever held any of you back at all in any way whatsoever?[/quote]
Maybe in the context you’re referring to it’s a stereotype. But how is it any different than watching Cops and saying “all them niggers there sell drugs…them crazy niggers”. Both are stereotypes. Are you arguing blacks get a free pass because of history? Because those whites that forged that history are largely no longer with us. There are a bunch of us, together, black and white, that had nothing to do with any of that. So what should black suffering in the past be the reason for any racism at all today to be acceptable? This isn’t about a term “holding me back” or anyone else for that matter. “Nigger” doesn’t and will not hold you back. It’s about whether we tolerate racism or not. To be honest with you, as someone with many many minority friends but also work in a corporate “white” world, I see more overt racism from blacks towards whites than I do the reverse. And like I said earlier, my opinion is that all that does is give the white people on the fence or those harboring those feelings to begin with a justification for feeling the way they do. Words can be hurtful and devisive. Yes, I am offended by “white boy”. No, it does not hold me back. But it could be a cause to divide. Do we really need division? Does that benefit anyone? I get where you’re coming from, and this subject is so complex it cannot possibly get fair treatment and debate here. There is no way I or anyone else could fully express such a complex subject in an internet thread - so much so, it’s practically useless to continue the discussion.
As someone that spends a lot of my time thinking people in general need to lighten the fuck up, that you don’t have a “right” to not be offended, I still think something like this, that is so devisive, has no place in our society if we are serious about wiping out racism. There is plenty you could teach me about your position and views - but what I’m trying to teach you is that many white people are offended by the black media and black racism and it does nothing to promote unity. You can’t force people to accept each other by legislating laws and other such measures. Acceptance will come from experiencing each other and learning that although different, we all share more in common.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Hell, are any of you actually even fucking offended or are you just bullshitting so you can claim to be victims?
[/quote]
When it’s said by an artist in a song or on stage, no I am not offended. Artists get a pass in my book when they’re out expressing themselves. When someone directly refers to me as white boy, then yes I am offended. I don’t claim to be victimized by the term and I don’t claim that it holds me back but it does stir something up when someone says it to me.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
Whiteboy is always said with malicious intent, today. Even when it’s used by black people watching Travis Pastrana jump his dirtbike off a building in Vegas saying “that crazy white boy is going to kill himself”. It’s still meant as a term to elevate themselves. I can easily understand how the people using the term don’t feel that way when they use it but it is what it is. It is a completely useless term. Well not exactly, it’s useful at causing tension. [/quote]
This has to be a joke. It is a STEREOTYPE. White people get labeled as the type to do ridiculous shit…like jam a lightbulb up their ass on Jackass or glide down 3 flights of stairs right down the railing. That doesn’t mean no other races do the same, but it is a stereotpye, and frankly, you guys seem to have no problem at all stereotyping everyone else.
I mean, didn’t you use “crackspot” or some term in relation to basketball players in this thread?
Why?
If someone does say “that crazy white boy is going to kill himself”, how the fuck is that any different than what everyone else deals with?
Are you above stereotypes while the rest of us are cursed by them?
Hell, are any of you actually even fucking offended or are you just bullshitting so you can claim to be victims?
When the hell has “white boy” ever been used to truly subjugate the entire white race?
When did it match the power it had against blacks or its wide spread use even in professional settings just 40 years ago?
It didn’t. Why the hell are you complaining like it has ever held any of you back at all in any way whatsoever?[/quote]
First of all. Not all racist terms subjugate entire races. Don’t make more of this than it is. Not all racist terms hold people back from whatever. I never said ‘whiteboy’ has as much of an impact as the n-word has. That’s stupid. But whiteboy is obviously a race based insult.
OBVIOUSLY
I do not think that every person who uses racist language is a through and through racist. But I do think that people using certain racist terms are doing so with direct knowledge of the word’s implication.
I don’t care if it’s a sterotype in the particular case I gave. The example I gave was to show how the word can be used in a very non-confrontational way and STILL be way to express race based differences in a situation where race has nothing to do with anything. ‘Whiteboy’ is hardly “just a stereotype” when a group of black men are trying to instigate a conflict with a white guy. The same way it wouldn’t be “just a stereotype” if a group of white guys tried to start a fight with a black guy and called him a ‘watermelon eater’ as they approached.
In certain cases, stereotypes can be used maliciously (nothing groundbreaking there). Usually stereotypes are harmless. The term ‘whiteboy’ is far from “just a stereotype”. That’s my point.
I used ‘crackspot’ not to exemplify a racial stereotype, but to exemplify a cultural stereotype; that culture being the hip hop culture. I explained that in a later post, if it wasn’t clear right off the bat. Yes I realize that the majority of crack dealers in the inner city are black and the majority of rappers are black. I claimed that David Stern wanted to distance the NBA from the Hip Hop image. I did not use the term ‘crackspot’ to imply that all black people are crack dealers. That is not a stereotype I would ever endorse. I guess you’ll just have to take my word on that because there’s no way I can actually prove that I meant one thing and not another.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Gee, who knew “play that funky music, white boy” offended so many of you?[/quote]
Nas wrote a song called Nigger. Does this mean that word is not offensive?
[quote]drewh wrote:
[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
[quote]Airtruth wrote:
[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
[quote]drewh wrote:
[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
[quote]drewh wrote:
Dear God some people, for the minute instances of racism white folk face minorities suffer far worse. I can even one up your shitty scenario, hockey. White people can fight and its a ok, you would NEVER see that in the NBA or NFL. And as far as I know they were giving Farve all types of shit. [/quote]
What would you say if Steve Nash and Kevin Love duked it out to the death? Or what if Donald Brashear and Mike Greer (buffalo sabres) went at it. I’m guessing your head would explode…
edited[/quote]
It doesn’t matter, the NBA is seen as a black sport and hockey a white one.
[/quote]
Brandon Jacobs attempted to punch D’angelo Hall in the ‘face’. Then Haynesworth took a swipe at Jacobs. Only Haynesworth got a penalty. It’s because the ref is a racist right? [/quote]
Your point is stupid, and further proves drewh’s. The difference is there is a sense that blacks can’t controls themselves so the sport as a whole needs to be controlled and coonery needs to be eliminated. The Commissioner has a week long press conference if there’s a fight in a sport where people are SUPPOSED to hit each other. Yet in hockey it’s cool to get into a fight.
When is the last time they made a dress code for hockey players?
They basically said all nba player’s are children who dress like the young black youth and scare white business man, so now they HAVE to wear suits.
As far as Bret Farve goes all I can remember is farve mania the last 2 summers. Maybe i’m biased because I only watch sports channels but it seemed like it was more than tiger woods and vick combined so whatever analyst that said that sounds kind of dumb. Still doesn’t mean there isn’t a racist attitude towards “black” sports.
[/quote]
Football players are suposed to tackle each other not punch each other in the helmets (a stroke of genius btw). Fighting is penalized. Guess what fighting is penalized in hockey too. 5 minutes in the penalty box for the involved parties. Fighting is allowed and regulated in hockey. It puts asses in the seats in a sport with a dwindling fan base. This is a completely retarded argument and I can’t believe anyone is taking this serious.
Black men on Wall street have to wear suits to work. I bet a few of them would love to wear their sweet George Gervin Mitchell and Ness jersey with matching fitted but they do what their employer tells them. It’s as simple as that. David Stern didn’t want the bench to look like the “crack spot” so he implemented a dress code. How many players complained about that again? Oh wait, the majority supported it. Hockey players that are only the “healthy inactive” list don’t even sit on the bench. They don’t even show up to the arena. Make a relevant point if you are going to argue, please.
As far as public perception goes. Paul Tagliabue is not the reason Ray Lewis was on trial for murder. Roger Goodell wasn’t involved when Mike Vick paid people to run his kennel. Stern didn’t force Artest to throw haymakers at a guy holding a soda/beer. Stephen Jackson, enough said. These are all individuals that have brought shame to their teams. Boo hoo. This group happens to be black. There are plenty of white and latino athletes that have done the same.
You say a lot of retarded shit on this forum but defending this clown takes the cake. [/quote]
And hockey players arent forced to fight, you act like it was never popular and the fighting was added for entertainment. How blind can you be it’s racist anyway you wrap your head around it. If the refs broke up the fighting early then you could say they are penalized but this doesn’t happen. And you’re really going to compare suspensions. 5 minute penalty<whole season for Ron Artest. Public perception, most people think NBA players are dumb shits and gangsters, this stigma is not attached to hockey or white dominant sports.[/quote]
Maybe that has something to do with fighting a fellow player versus fighting the public… not to mention Artest hit the wrong guy to begin with.
[quote]Professor X wrote
Yes, it was and no less ridiculous. Not only that, but someone posted a more “hardcore” white stand up routine right after mine. It still doesn’t change the fact that the man does comedy and spends a good deal of his show making fun of black comics who make fun of white guys…which we were just told by the lemming in this thread never happens without backlash.
Some of these people do not live in reality and the goal of my post was not show someone simply being hateful and racist. Black comics are not making pure hateful statements and if they were, why the fuck are white people laughing in the audience???
When the hell has Chris Rock ever caused half of his audience to walk out due to offending all of the white people?
A real joke is just a joke…and most people without their heads stuck up their ass can tell the difference.[/quote]
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