Hey Iowa, I think I know why your attracted to deca so here’s a reccomendation. Use EQ instead. Read about nandrolone and reesterification. In short, it just simply bounces around in your system for way too long after you thought you were done with it. Makes recovering your HPTA difficult. The sides of EQ are much easier to control than nandrolone all around as well.
Oh my bad just thought you guys might like to know what the guys on the Olympia stage are doing.
[quote]Npccompetitor69 wrote:
Oh my bad just thought you guys might like to know what the guys on the Olympia stage are doing.[/quote]
If you’re serious I was expecting them to use more than that(even though that’s an ungodly amount to begin with).
[quote]Npccompetitor69 wrote:
personaly i like switching between d-ball and anadrol every three weeks on a 16 week cycle thats with about 2000 mg of test 800 of deca 5 units of gh daily and about 400 mg of tren a week… [/quote]
That seems way too unhealthy to me. You must be one bloated mess. Unless you are a dealer or rich kid, I don’t see how you can afford stacks like that all the time.
[quote]Npccompetitor69 wrote:
Oh my bad just thought you guys might like to know what the guys on the Olympia stage are doing.[/quote]
those guys are disgusting, calculate the lean mass bmi of arnold or any of the classic age bodybuilders and then compare yourself to them. that is what i would want to strive for. there is a difference between use and abuse of steroids. laters pk
[quote]Npccompetitor69 wrote:
Oh my bad just thought you guys might like to know what the guys on the Olympia stage are doing.[/quote]
no…one…cares
seriously, consider the demographic you are preaching to in this forum.
if it’s your “job” to train, eat, inject and sleep all day in order to compete, then that type of abuse is required…how many on this forum fall into that category!!!
[quote]Npccompetitor69 wrote:
Oh my bad just thought you guys might like to know what the guys on the Olympia stage are doing.[/quote]
How would you know? Drop some names.
I’m not going to drop any names …you guys dont even want to know how to cycle let alone do this stuff right. Just keep doing these little 6-8 week cycles and lose everything that you gain in 4 weeks actualy having to do in years what you could do in six months.
[quote]Npccompetitor69 wrote:
I’m not going to drop any names …you guys dont even want to know how to cycle let alone do this stuff right. Just keep doing these little 6-8 week cycles and lose everything that you gain in 4 weeks actualy having to do in years what you could do in six months.[/quote]
how long have you been on this board lurking to non-chalantly use the term “you guys”, like you are referring to the collective whole???
a LOT of the vets here don’t do short cycles…some never come off…or take minimal breaks…or cruise…
if someone wants an opinion on a shorty…they get it…because not everyone has the same goals…not everyone wants to play with the same risks…
different people, different situations, different goals. not everyone wishes to step on a stage. i would think that should be relatively easy to comprehend.
once again, i remind you to consider the demographic here…
7 weeks of dbol in my experience is too long. I usually wait a few weeks for the test E to kick in before using the dbol, as this will give the two drugs more synergy. Real gains aren’t had untill a few weeks has passed anyway, and most of what dbol does is just increase the muscle’s ability to store energy - i.e. increase in size due to extra water. This does eventually spill into the interstitial areas and will effect workouts, causing increase in lactic acid buildup best described as a very intense burn, that most experience in the delts and lower back, known as ‘back pump’. This ‘burn’ makes it impossible to train at an optimal intesity while on your cycle.
If you use dbol to begin with, by the time you get your peak growth phase (3 weeks to 6 weeks, you will have back pump, and be likely unable to train at 100% intensity.
Now the synergy I talked about is it’s class 2 actions of blocking cortisol. Combine this with a drug like test that binds strongly with the AR to stimulate actual muscle hypertrophy, and satallite cell creation and you can actually increase your potential gains.
The other drawback with using it at the beginning is that levels of Sex Hormone Binding Globulin will rise quicker - same reason not to frontload. High levels of SBGH will decrease the effectiveness of your cycle, and possibly take away from the anabolic potential you have in the 3-6 week window.
In regards to doing short cycles I will comment that it has been my experience that quick muscle gains are not well maintained, and that new muscle needs to be ‘established’ if you hope to keep it. This means a longer time on.
And of course for PCT as usual I do highly recomend the testosterone taper.
Great post P22. I’m strongly considering a 14 week cycle…however would you reccomend I extend only the test e for the extra 4 weeks or the deca as well?
Secondly, do you then reccomend that I start the dbol around week 3-4 and then run it until week 13 or 14? Or a shorter run of the dbols?
P22,
I follow everything you said but the back and shoulder pumps. I’ve only used dbol a few times, and if I can remember right, each time for 8 weeks at 50mg (10mg with meals) I’ve never had that problem with the painful pumps. The first time I used it I never had any pct and I guess I was lucky becauise I still retained a decent amount of muscle afterwards.
I think dbol gets a bad rap. It causes lots of water retention and is toxic to the liver if used too long, but it gives you a sense of almost euphoria (spelling?) and once the water retention goes away I find that I lose some fat.
Has anyone had any bad experiences with it?
Everyone I know just from anecdotal advice has used dbol as a jumpstart to their cycle. Never heard of it used in the middle, however have heard some cycles with it in the end.
I’m still deciding.
water retention with dball? toxic? wow this is a begginers forum
[quote]infin|ty wrote:
Great post P22. I’m strongly considering a 14 week cycle…however would you reccomend I extend only the test e for the extra 4 weeks or the deca as well?
Secondly, do you then reccomend that I start the dbol around week 3-4 and then run it until week 13 or 14? Or a shorter run of the dbols?[/quote]
Personally I can’t handle dbol for longer than four weeks at a time. The sides such as I described get too bothersome for me. I ususally swith to the likes of Oral Turinabol.
As for using deca, keep in mind if you plan on comming off, it has to be out of your system for quit some time. I recomend droping the deca, and increasing the test if need be.
That way following your cycle, whatever pct approch you do choose, will be much easier.
[quote]jdrannin1 wrote:
P22,
I follow everything you said but the back and shoulder pumps. I’ve only used dbol a few times, and if I can remember right, each time for 8 weeks at 50mg (10mg with meals) I’ve never had that problem with the painful pumps. The first time I used it I never had any pct and I guess I was lucky becauise I still retained a decent amount of muscle afterwards.
I think dbol gets a bad rap. It causes lots of water retention and is toxic to the liver if used too long, but it gives you a sense of almost euphoria (spelling?) and once the water retention goes away I find that I lose some fat.
Has anyone had any bad experiences with it?[/quote]
Possibly your caloric intake wasn’t high enough to experience these. Since dbol is predominatly take while ‘bulking’ which requires much more calories than usual, this is when the back pumps are experience. You can get the back pump from other drugs as well, but dbol tends to bring it on the easiest, and cause it the worst of all.
[quote]Prisoner#22 wrote:
jdrannin1 wrote:
P22,
I follow everything you said but the back and shoulder pumps. I’ve only used dbol a few times, and if I can remember right, each time for 8 weeks at 50mg (10mg with meals) I’ve never had that problem with the painful pumps. The first time I used it I never had any pct and I guess I was lucky becauise I still retained a decent amount of muscle afterwards.
I think dbol gets a bad rap. It causes lots of water retention and is toxic to the liver if used too long, but it gives you a sense of almost euphoria (spelling?) and once the water retention goes away I find that I lose some fat.
Has anyone had any bad experiences with it?
Possibly your caloric intake wasn’t high enough to experience these. Since dbol is predominatly take while ‘bulking’ which requires much more calories than usual, this is when the back pumps are experience. You can get the back pump from other drugs as well, but dbol tends to bring it on the easiest, and cause it the worst of all.
[/quote]
So you’re saying you are at greater risk of those pumps while bulking? Do Hypercaloric diets normally cause an increase in blood pressure? Could the pumps be directly related to an increase blood pressure?
water retention with dball? toxic? wow this is a begginers forum
How so? I’m a begginer so it looks like from that post you’re saying that none of those things are true. Could you explain?
[quote]jdrannin1 wrote:
Prisoner#22 wrote:
jdrannin1 wrote:
P22,
I follow everything you said but the back and shoulder pumps. I’ve only used dbol a few times, and if I can remember right, each time for 8 weeks at 50mg (10mg with meals) I’ve never had that problem with the painful pumps. The first time I used it I never had any pct and I guess I was lucky becauise I still retained a decent amount of muscle afterwards.
I think dbol gets a bad rap. It causes lots of water retention and is toxic to the liver if used too long, but it gives you a sense of almost euphoria (spelling?) and once the water retention goes away I find that I lose some fat.
Has anyone had any bad experiences with it?
Possibly your caloric intake wasn’t high enough to experience these. Since dbol is predominatly take while ‘bulking’ which requires much more calories than usual, this is when the back pumps are experience. You can get the back pump from other drugs as well, but dbol tends to bring it on the easiest, and cause it the worst of all.
So you’re saying you are at greater risk of those pumps while bulking? Do Hypercaloric diets normally cause an increase in blood pressure? Could the pumps be directly related to an increase blood pressure?[/quote]
Although yes, the drug, along with the estrogen that converts will cause the kidneys to retain more electrolytes, leading and water, The actual mechanism for the water retention interstitially is not a spill over from the vascular system, rather is a caused by an increase ability of the muscle cells to hold energy, which increases the amount of water held there as well. Since carbs pull water with them, when transported into the muscles you can see how more carbs cause more water retention - especially when the muscles have been given the ability to hold on to a greater than normal amount of energy.
All this fluid is what slows the exchange of lactic acid from the cells, and hence is responsible for the burn. So no this isn’t directly related to an increase in blood pressure.
Is the new guru gone?