Favorite Bible Verses.

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
101

[quote]edgecrusher wrote:
doogie wrote:
JPBear wrote:
The most important thing to remember when reading the Bible is that it is infallible and complete revelation of God to man. It was written by God through men and does not contain mistakes or contradictions.

Which first–beasts or man?

GEN 1:25 And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
GEN 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

GEN 2:18 And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.
GEN 2:19 And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.

The number of beasts in the ark

GEN 7:2 Of every clean beast thou shalt take to thee by sevens, the male and his female: and of beasts that are not clean by two, the male and his female.

GEN 7:8 Of clean beasts, and of beasts that are not clean, and of fowls, and of every thing that creepeth upon the earth, GEN 7:9 There went in two and two unto Noah into the ark, the male and the female, as God had commanded Noah.

How many stalls and horsemen?

KI1 4:26 And Solomon had forty thousand stalls of horses for his chariots, and twelve thousand horsemen.

CH2 9:25 And Solomon had four thousand stalls for horses and chariots, and twelve thousand horsemen; whom he bestowed in the chariot cities, and with the king at Jerusalem.

Is it folly to be wise or not?

PRO 4:7 Wisdom is the principal thing; therefore get wisdom: and with all thy getting get understanding.

ECC 1:18 For in much wisdom is much grief: and he that increaseth knowledge increaseth sorrow.

1 Cor.1:19: “For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and wil bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.”

Human vs. ghostly impregnation

ACT 2:30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;

MAT 1:18 Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost.

The sins of the father

ISA 14:21 Prepare slaughter for his children for the iniquity of their fathers; that they do not rise, nor possess the land, nor fill the face of the world with cities.

DEU 24:16 The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin.

Order of creation

Here is the order in the first (Genesis 1), the Priestly tradition:

Day 1: Sky, Earth, light
Day 2: Water, both in ocean basins and above the sky(!)
Day 3: Plants
Day 4: Sun, Moon, stars (as calendrical and navigational aids)
Day 5: Sea monsters (whales), fish, birds, land animals, creepy-crawlies (reptiles, insects, etc.)
Day 6: Humans (apparently both sexes at the same time)
Day 7: Nothing (the Gods took the first day off anyone ever did)

Note that there are “days,” “evenings,” and “mornings” before the Sun was created. Here, the Deity is referred to as “Elohim,” which is a plural, thus the literal translation, “the Gods.” In this tale, the Gods seem satisfied with what they have done, saying after each step that “it was good.”

The second one (Genesis 2), the Yahwist tradition, goes:

Earth and heavens (misty)
Adam, the first man (on a desolate Earth)
Plants
Animals
Eve, the first woman (from Adam’s rib)

How orderly were things created?
Genesis 1: Step-by-step. The only discrepancy is that there is no Sun or Moon or stars on the first three “days.”

Genesis 2: God fixes things up as he goes. The first man is lonely, and is not satisfied with animals. God finally creates a woman for him. (funny thing that an omniscient god would forget things)

How satisfied with creation was he?
Genesis 1: God says “it was good” after each of his labors, and rests on the seventh day, evidently very satisfied.

Genesis 2: God has to fix up his creation as he goes, and he would certainly not be very satisfied with the disobedience of that primordial couple.

How did Judas die and who bought the field?

Acts 1:18: “Now this man (Judas) purchased a field with the reward of iniquity; and falling headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and all his bowels gushed out.”

Matt. 27:5-7: “And he (Judas) cast down the pieces of silver in the temple, and departed, and went and hanged himself. And the chief priests…bought with them the potter’s field.”

Jesus’ last words

Matt.27:46,50: “And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, “Eli, eli, lama sabachthani?” that is to say, “My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?” …Jesus, when he cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.”

Luke23:46: “And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, “Father, unto thy hands I commend my spirit:” and having said thus, he gave up the ghost.”

John19:30: “When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, “It is finished:” and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.”

Years of famine–The King James version of the Bible.

II SAMUEL 24:13: So God came to David, and told him, and said unto him, shall SEVEN YEARS OF FAMINE come unto thee in thy land? or will thou flee three months before thine enemies, while they pursue. thee?

I CHRONICLES 21:11: SO God came to David, and said unto him, Thus saith the LORD, Choose thee. Either THREE YEARS OF FAMINE or three months to be destryed before thy foes, while that the sword of thine enemies overtaketh thee;

Who moved David to anger?

II SAMUEL 24: And again the anger of the LORD was kindled against Israel, and he moved David against them to say, Go, number Isreal and Judah.

I CHRONICLES 21: And SATAN stood up against Isreal, and provoked David to number Israel.

The GENEALOGY OF JESUS?

In two places in the New Testament the genealogy of Jesus son of Mary is mentioned. Matthew 1:6-16 and Luke 3:23-31. Each gives the ancestors of Joseph the CLAIMED husband of Mary and Step father of Jesus. The first one starts from Abraham(verse 2) all the way down to Jesus. The second one from Jesus all the way back to Adam. The only common name to these two lists between David and Jesus is JOSEPH, How can this be true? and also How can Jesus have a genealogy when Christians believe that Jesus had/has no father?

God be seen?

Exod. 24:9,10; Amos 9:1; Gen. 26:2; and John 14:9
God CAN be seen:
“And I will take away my hand, and thou shalt see my backparts.” (Ex. 33:23)
“And the Lord spake to Moses face to face, as a man speaketh to his friend.” (Ex. 33:11)
“For I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.” (Gen. 32:30)

God CANNOT be seen:
“No man hath seen God at any time.” (John 1:18)
“And he said, Thou canst not see my face; for there shall no man see me and live.” (Ex. 33:20)
“Whom no man hath seen nor can see.” (1 Tim. 6:16)

CRUEL, UNMERCIFUL, DESTRUCTIVE, and FEROCIOUS or KIND, MERCIFUL, and GOOD:

“I will not pity, nor spare, nor have mercy, but destroy.” (Jer. 13:14) “Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not, but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling.”

“The Lord is very pitiful and of tender mercy.” (James 5:11)
“For his mercy endureth forever.” (1 Chron. 16:34)
“The Lord is good to all, and his tender mercies are over all his works.” (Ps. 145:9)
“God is love.” (1 John 4:16)

Does God tempt us?

“And it came to pass after these things, that God did tempt Abraham.” (Gen 22:1)

“Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God; for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man.” (James 1:13)

How many beatitudes in the Sermon on the Mount

MAT 5:3 Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
MAT 5:4 Blessed are they that mourn: for they shall be comforted.
MAT 5:5 Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.
MAT 5:6 Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.
MAT 5:7 Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy.
MAT 5:8 Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.
MAT 5:9 Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.
MAT 5:10 Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness’ sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
MAT 5:11 Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.

LUK 6:20 And he lifted up his eyes on his disciples, and said, Blessed be ye poor: for yours is the kingdom of God.
LUK 6:21 Blessed are ye that hunger now: for ye shall be filled. Blessed are ye that weep now: for ye shall laugh.
LUK 6:22 Blessed are ye, when men shall hate you, and when they shall separate you from their company, and shall reproach you, and cast out your name as evil, for the Son of man’s sake.
LUK 6:23 Rejoice ye in that day, and leap for joy: for, behold, your reward is great in heaven: for in the like manner did their fathers unto the prophets.

Do you answer a fool?

PRO 26:4 Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him.

PRO 26:5 Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own conceit.

How old was Jehoiachin when he began to reign?

KI2 24:8 Jehoiachin was eighteen years old when he began to reign, and he reigned in Jerusalem three months. And his mother’s name was Nehushta, the daughter of Elnathan of Jerusalem.

CH2 36:9 Jehoiachin was eight years old when he began to reign, and he reigned three months and ten days in Jerusalem: and he did that which was evil in the sight of the LORD.

Did we miss the second coming?

MAT 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

MAR 13:30 Verily I say unto you, that this generation shall not pass, till all these things be done.

LUK 21:32 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled.

ON THE POWER OF GOD
“… with God all things are possible.” – Matthew 19:26

“…The LORD was with Judah; and he drave out the inhabitants of the mountain; but could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley, because they had chariots of iron.” – Judges 1:19

ON INCEST
“Cursed be he that lieth with his sister, the daughter of his father, or the daughter of this mother…” – Deuteronomy 27:22

“And if a man shall take his sister, his father’s daughter, or his mother’s daughter…it is a wicked thing…” – Leviticus 20:17

[But what was god’s reaction to Abraham, who married his sister – his father’s daughter?] See Genesis 20:11-12

“And God said unto Abraham, As for Sara thy wife…I bless her, and give thee a son also of her…” – Genesis 17:15-16

“The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father…” – Ezekiel 18:20

“I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation…” – Exodus 20:5

“Honor thy father and thy mother…”-- Exodus 20:12

"If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple. " – Luke 14:26

  1. 2 Samuel 24:9 gives the total population for Israel as 800,000, whereas 1 Chronicles 21:5 says it was 1,100,000

Was Ahaziah 22 (2 Kings 8:26) or 42 (2 Chronicles 22:2) when he began to rule over Jerusalem?

Was Jehoiachin 18 years old (2 Kings 24:8) or 8 years old (2 Chronicles 36:9) when he became king of Jerusalem?

Did the chief of the mighty men of David lift up his spear and killed 800 men (2 Samuel 23:8) or only 300 men (1 Chronicles 11:11)?

Was Noah supposed to bring 2 pairs of all living creatures (Genesis 6:19-20), or was he to bring 7 pairs of ‘clean’ animals (Genesis 7:2; see also Genesis 7:8,9)?

Did David capture 1,700 of King Zobah’s horsemen (2 Samuel 8:4), or was it 7,000 (1 Chronicles 18:4)?

Did Solomon have 40,000 stalls for his horses (1 Kings 4:26), or 4,000 stalls (2 Chronicles 9:25)?

Did Baasha, the king of Israel die in the 26th year of king Asa’s reign (1 Kings 15:33), or was he still alive in the 36th year ( 2 Chronicles 16:1)?

Did Solomon appoint 3,600 overseers (2 Chronicles 2:2) for the work of building the temple, or was it only 3,300 (1 Kings 5:16)?

Did Solomon build a facility containing 2,000 baths (1 Kings 7:26), or over 3,000 baths (2 Chronicles 4:5)?

Both Ezra 2:64 and Nehemiah 7:66 agree that the totals for the whole assembly was 42,360, yet when the totals are added, Ezra - 29,818 and Nehemiah - 31,089?

Did 200 singers (Ezra 2:65) or 245 singers (Nehemiah 7:67) accompany the assembly?

Was Jechoniah (Matthew 1:12) or Neri (Luke 3:27) the father of Shealtiel?

Were there fourteen (Matthew 1:17) or thirteen (Matthew 1:12-16) generations from the Babylonian exile until Christ?

Who was the father of Shelah; Cainan (Luke 3:35-36) or Arphaxad (Genesis 11:12)?

Simon Peter finds out that Jesus was the Christ by a revelation from heaven (Matthew 16:17), or by His brother Andrew (John 1:41)?

When Jesus met Jairus, his daughter ‘had just died’ (Matthew 9:18), or was ‘at the point of death’ (Mark 5:23)?

When Jesus entered Jerusalem he cleansed (Matthew 21:12) or did not cleanse (Mark 11:1-17) the temple that same day, but the next day?

Is Jesus equal to or lesser than?

JOH 10:30 I and my Father are one.

JOH 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

Who is the father of Joseph?

MAT 1:16 And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ.

LUK 3:23 And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli.

Hmmmm, somehow these “contradictions” look strangely familiar…

“For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths.” II Tim 4:3[/quote]

I find it very disturbing that the person who originally posted these “contradictions” simply copy/pasted instead of letting the Word of God speak to him (doing the research himself).

If you are going to cast a stone, at least do the research yourself. It makes you not credible if you use someone elses words (especially if you don’t know exactly who made the original claims nor what their background is. Use your own brain.

Just my .02.

BTW: Great post, Edgecrusher

102

Matthew 22:29 Jesus answered and said unto them [the Sadducees], Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God.

Matthew 22:14 For many are called, but few are chosen.

Acts 8: 29-37 Then the Spirit said unto Philip, Go near, and join thyself to this chariot. And Philip ran thither to him, and heard him read the prophet Esaias, and said, Understandest thou what thou readest? And he said, How can I, except some man should guide me? And he desired Philip that he would come up and sit with him. The place of the scripture which he read was this, He was led as a sheep to the slaughter; and like a lamb dumb before his shearer, so opened he not his mouth: In his humiliation his judgment was taken away: and who shall declare his generation? for his life is taken from the earth. And the eunuch answered Philip, and said, I pray thee, of whom speaketh the prophet this? of himself, or of some other man? Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus. 36And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized? And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.

2 Timothy 4:1-3 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom; Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long suffering and doctrine. For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;

103

Pitbull314, Its not a curse. We all have free will. Its what you do with you free will that will afect you if your not a christian ( Christian: excepting christ as you personal savior). We are all sinners. Even pastors sin, no one has ever been perfect or will be perfect (except jesus…the sinless son took up our sins on the cross).

Please dont take the verses of the bible or what ive been taught affensive. You might not agree, but have respect. At least for the bible verses.

104

Remember that the men God used to write the bible had limited resources…only X amount (feet) of parchment to write on. Thus, they had to condense some things as well, to get the larger story out there.

Back on topic:

Phillipians 4:13-

“I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me.”

105

[quote]doogie wrote:
haney wrote:

Give me til tomorrow, and I will answer all of them for you.

Haney,

Unless you believe like JPBear that, “The most important thing to remember when reading the Bible is that it is infallible and complete revelation of God to man. It was written by God through men” then you really don’t need to bother.

I will concede that there are lots of ways to explain them all (and the many more that I didn’t cut and paste) if you don’t claim that God directly wrote the book through men. The explanatios/excuses all involve things like “different perspectives of the authors” and “transcription error”.

If you want to argue that the bible is the actual revelation of god to man–whether whispered in their ear, through voices in their head, or by physically taking their hand and writing it out–I’d love to hear your explanations. If nothing else, I’d love to hear why God didn’t have a better writing style.[/quote]

Obviously I believe it is God inspired, and I believe in inerrency.

Maybe not the way JPbear does, but maybe I do.

I can’t answer that, but I think it is unfair of you to post something that you know can easily be explained away…

As for writing style any elementary christian can tell you God inspired doesn’t mean God came up with style in which thing were written. Just the message behind it.

106

[quote]doogie wrote:
JPBear wrote:
The most important thing to remember when reading the Bible is that it is infallible and complete revelation of God to man. It was written by God through men and does not contain mistakes or contradictions.

Which first–beasts or man?

GEN 1:25 And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
GEN 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

GEN 2:18 And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.
GEN 2:19 And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.

[/quote]

kind of an easy one. Everyone knows the gen one is meant to be a specific this is what happened.

and Gen 2 is more of an adrievated version.

There is a more technical explination, but I will spare you the details.

The answer is seven of each kind. They merely entered the ark in pairs.

copyist error.

The first two are proverbs wise sayings, so I fail to see what the problem is with them.

As for the last you are taking it out of context.

The answer is both. After all if David did have kids, then Mary wouldn’t be. No Mary no Jesus.

[quote]
The sins of the father

ISA 14:21 Prepare slaughter for his children for the iniquity of their fathers; that they do not rise, nor possess the land, nor fill the face of the world with cities.

DEU 24:16 The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin.
------------------------------------------[/quote]
One is a law, and the other is a prophetic warning.

Since there are many ways to interpret Genesis I am not going to bother with an explination. I will say that I find Augustine’s version of events absolutly fascinating.

[quote]
How did Judas die and who bought the field?

Acts 1:18: “Now this man (Judas) purchased a field with the reward of iniquity; and falling headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and all his bowels gushed out.”

Matt. 27:5-7: “And he (Judas) cast down the pieces of silver in the temple, and departed, and went and hanged himself. And the chief priests…bought with them the potter’s field.”
-----------------------------------------[/quote]
There are three explinations for this one.

I am going to stick to the basic.
One of the versions just gives more details.

I have the answer, but it requires a better laid out explination.

copyist error.

Job gives an example of how this could happen. Many believe in a dual agency of Satan.

[quote]
The GENEALOGY OF JESUS?

In two places in the New Testament the genealogy of Jesus son of Mary is mentioned. Matthew 1:6-16 and Luke 3:23-31. Each gives the ancestors of Joseph the CLAIMED husband of Mary and Step father of Jesus. The first one starts from Abraham(verse 2) all the way down to Jesus. The second one from Jesus all the way back to Adam. The only common name to these two lists between David and Jesus is JOSEPH, How can this be true? and also How can Jesus have a genealogy when Christians believe that Jesus had/has no father?
-------------------------------------------[/quote]

Hmm… one is Joseph’s heritage, and the other is Mary’s.

[quote]
God be seen?

Exod. 24:9,10; Amos 9:1; Gen. 26:2; and John 14:9
God CAN be seen:
“And I will take away my hand, and thou shalt see my backparts.” (Ex. 33:23)
“And the Lord spake to Moses face to face, as a man speaketh to his friend.” (Ex. 33:11)
“For I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.” (Gen. 32:30)

God CANNOT be seen:
“No man hath seen God at any time.” (John 1:18)
“And he said, Thou canst not see my face; for there shall no man see me and live.” (Ex. 33:20)
“Whom no man hath seen nor can see.” (1 Tim. 6:16)
------------------------------------------[/quote]
God can’t be seen in his full glory, but he can be seen in lesser entities.

God executed judgement on a nation, and used the israelites to accomplish it. It always amazes me that people assumed the amalekites were some innocent group.

Here is were that dual agency of Satan comes in handy. Being able to understand the linguistic use of the day, and not judging it by our modern standards help too.

obviously one isn’t the complete version.

but I will inact occam’s razor on this one. Isn’t that what skeptic’s do to justify the Q marcan theory?

[quote]
Do you answer a fool?

PRO 26:4 Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him.

PRO 26:5 Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own conceit.
------------------------------------------[/quote]
Wise saying. not required to fit the errency model.

copyist error.

Depends on your flavor of eschatology.
For me personally I am a partial preterist. So those verses aren’t an issue for me. for a dispinsationalist I think those verses are a problem.

Although they can be explained by both sides, it requires keeping the prophecy in context though.

This is much more a question of Judah then it is God’s ability. The writer is simply stating that inspite of Judah’s failures God was still with him.

Do I even need to bother with this one?

One means GOd doesn’t hold the sons responsibile for what the fathers did.

The other is simply stating that they will be prone to the same weakness that their ancestors had.

This was merely Jesus saying that to follow him meant a serious commitment.

Copyist error

Already dealt with.

Most of these are copyist error.

These are just taken way out of context.

[quote]
Who is the father of Joseph?

MAT 1:16 And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ.

LUK 3:23 And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli.
-----------------------------------------[/quote]

As stated earlier one version is Mary’s and one is Joseph’s.
As for the Father issue. When Joseph married Mary he also became the son of her Father. So that is why you have two fathers.

107

[quote]edgecrusher wrote:

Hmmmm, somehow these “contradictions” look strangely familiar…

[/quote]

They sounded strangely familiar to you? I didn’t think you’re the type of guy be reading infidels.org That’s interesting.

I said I cut and pasted them. Some came from here also:
http://debate.org.uk/topics/apolog/contrads.htm

It provides explanations/rationalizations for the contradictions. It also explains that Christians shouldn’t believe the Bible to have been ‘sent down’ from heaven unfettered by the hands of men.

[quote]
“For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths.” II Tim 4:3[/quote]

Wow. That explains the Christian rejection of the sound doctrines of science and their turning to myths instead. That is the only prophecy I’ve ever believed came true.

108

[quote]theantideg wrote:
yeah, jesus sure was a swell dude:

Instead of bringing mankind a cure for heart diease and cancer, he used his magic to curse a fig tree. Instead of ending birth defects and infant mortality, he filled pigs with demons. Instead of ending world hunger and illteracy, he conjured up a jug of wine. What an incredible waste of omnipotence!

[/quote]

Yeah!! Instead of stomping out the Roman rule he decided to die on a cross for my sins and save my soul. I can’t believe that somebody would become a sacrifice for me.

Total waste of omnipotence.

109

[quote]doogie wrote:
“For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths.” II Tim 4:3

Wow. That explains the Christian rejection of the sound doctrines of science and their turning to myths instead. That is the only prophecy I’ve ever believed came true.[/quote]

Talking about the importance of context, you forgot to include 4:1-2, the passage you wrote will then makes sense:

“In the presence of God, and of Christ Jesus, who will judge the living and the dead, and in view of his appearing and his kingdom, I give you this charge: Preach the Word; be prepared in season and out of season; correct, rebuke and encourage - with great patience and instruction.”

Paul is urging Timothy here to preach the “Word” (gospel) because THIS is the sound doctrine and truth mentioned in vv3-4 that men will want to turn away from and towards the myths of their own making and desires.

These myths include anything from heresies, belief in false gods right up to modern day beliefs we see in things such as relativism e.g. “What you believe in is fine as long as you don’t try to contradict what I believe in”, even if the two beliefs are opposed to each other!

Once again, everyone has to be careful to check the context of the verses they are quoting otherwise they could mean something completely different to what they think they do (or want them to).

110

You know Doogie, I just read some of your (newer) posts and have a newly found respect for you, but…

[quote]doogie wrote:
edgecrusher wrote:

Wow. That explains the Christian rejection of the sound doctrines of science and their turning to myths instead. That is the only prophecy I’ve ever believed came true.[/quote]

…actually, science is catching up to many of the things that the Bible says. In fact, many discoveries by science back up what Christians have said for years.

Science is indeed interesting and cool, and (to take a quote from Robert Jastrow, astronomer and founder of NASA’s Goddard Institute for Space Studies in his book “God and the Astronomers”):

-“For the scientist who has lived by his faith in the power of reason, the story ends like a bad dream. He has scaled the mountains of ignorance; he is about to conquer the highest peak; as he pulls himself over the final rock, he is greeted by a band of theologians who have been sitting there for centuries.” *

Sorry for the hijack, so I’ll add in another favorite passage.

Ephesians 4:29

“Let no corrupt word proceed out of your mouth, but what is good for necessary edification, that it may impart grace to the hearers.”

Yes, I fail at that one a lot, but the Lord is helping me change…

  • Robert Jastrow, GOD AND THE ASTRONOMERS (New York, NY: W.W. Norton & Co, 1978) 116.
111

I won’t address the ones that are claimed to be copyist errors (and I won’t go back and see how many you attributed to that), other than to ask how you can be sure of ANYTHING in the Bible if you can’t produce the originals and you admit there are errors in the copying of it?

Sure you have a lot of thousand and thousands of bits and pieces of old texts, but nothing close to being a single complete copy of ANY of the books in the Bible. You’ve played telegraph. You know how a message can’t even get passed around a room of 20 people without getting distorted.

Beyond that, how can you be sure that the books (errors and all) that have been included in the Bible are the CORRECT words of god? You know there were many other writings about Jesus and god from the same time period. How can you be sure that the group of people who sat around deciding which books to include (errors and all) chose the CORRECT books?

[quote]haney wrote:

Which first–beasts or man?

GEN 1:25 And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
GEN 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

GEN 2:18 And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.
GEN 2:19 And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.

kind of an easy one. Everyone knows the gen one is meant to be a specific this is what happened.

and Gen 2 is more of an adrievated version.

There is a more technical explination, but I will spare you the details.
[/quote]

Your explanation is nonsense. If Gen 1 is specific, then animals were created before man. You can abbreviate what Gen 1 says by saying “God made animals, then God made man.”

You can’t call saying, “God made man, man was lonely, so God made animals” animals an abbreviation. Those are two clearly contradictory accounts of the creation.

Is it Christian to pretend you don’t know what “abbreviation” means?

Yet how many Christians would say there were 14 of each animal on the ark? For that matter, how silly is it to believe there were 14 of every animal on a boat?

Even the first two conflict which each other, but please, put the third into a context in a manner that doesn’t contradict the wise sayings.

So if Jesus was the “fruit of his [David] loins”, it is almost certain that there are people today who share some of that same bloodline?

So was God’s law correct and just or was the prophetic warning correct and just? By that I mean, is it just to punish children for the sin’s of their father (as God’s law commanded) or is it just to only punish each man for his own sins?

[quote]
Order of creation

Here is the order in the first (Genesis 1), the Priestly tradition:

Day 1: Sky, Earth, light
Day 2: Water, both in ocean basins and above the sky(!)
Day 3: Plants
Day 4: Sun, Moon, stars (as calendrical and navigational aids)
Day 5: Sea monsters (whales), fish, birds, land animals, creepy-crawlies (reptiles, insects, etc.)
Day 6: Humans (apparently both sexes at the same time)
Day 7: Nothing (the Gods took the first day off anyone ever did)

Note that there are “days,” “evenings,” and “mornings” before the Sun was created. Here, the Deity is referred to as “Elohim,” which is a plural, thus the literal translation, “the Gods.” In this tale, the Gods seem satisfied with what they have done, saying after each step that “it was good.”

The second one (Genesis 2), the Yahwist tradition, goes:

Earth and heavens (misty)
Adam, the first man (on a desolate Earth)
Plants
Animals
Eve, the first woman (from Adam’s rib)

How orderly were things created?
Genesis 1: Step-by-step. The only discrepancy is that there is no Sun or Moon or stars on the first three “days.”

Genesis 2: God fixes things up as he goes. The first man is lonely, and is not satisfied with animals. God finally creates a woman for him. (funny thing that an omniscient god would forget things)

How satisfied with creation was he?
Genesis 1: God says “it was good” after each of his labors, and rests on the seventh day, evidently very satisfied.

Genesis 2: God has to fix up his creation as he goes, and he would certainly not be very satisfied with the disobedience of that primordial couple.

Since there are many ways to interpret Genesis I am not going to bother with an explination. I will say that I find Augustine’s version of events absolutly fascinating.[/quote]

So you don’t know what order things occurred in, but you won’t admit those two accounts contradict each other?

Why couldn’t God present his word in a manner requiring no interpretation?

You didn’t even answer the question. WHo bought the field, the priests or Judas?
Those aren’t differening levels of details.

That’s convincing.

So people can just choose to believe what they want to about the Bible? I can just say, “well that doesn’t make any sense. Maybe Satan was a double agent!”

They both trace back through Joseph.

While we are hanging around Matthew, here’s some more:

There were fourteen generations from Abraham to David [Matt 1:17]

There were but thirteen generations from Abraham to David [Matt 1:2-6]
68. There were fourteen generations from the Babylonian captivity to Christ [Matt 1:17]

There were but thirteen generations from the Babylonian captivity to Christ [Matt 1:12-16]

That isn’t what it says. It says, very clearly, “No man hath seen God at any time.” You can’t just be making up stuff to fill in GOD’s word.

It doesn’t matter WHY he did it, the point is it completely contradicts the statements: “The Lord is very pitiful and of tender mercy” and “The Lord is good to all, and his tender mercies are over all his works.”

What was merciful about that judgement? What did the little children do to deserve being smitten? How was that being “good to all”? How was that his “tender mercy”?

Of course making up stuff will help you, but there is nothing in God’s word about Satan being on his side.

To be a double agent you have to be working for two different teams. The teams here are God and Satan. Satan can’t be fooling himself into thinking he is only on his own side.

Anyway, it says “And it came to pass after these things, that God did tempt Abraham.” It doesn’t say Satan did it. So even if you are trying to make some nonsensical arguement that God was using Satan to tempt Abraham, IT WAS STILL GOD doing it.

I said in the beginning you can’t believe “the Bible…is infallible and complete revelation of God to man. It was written by God through men and does not contain mistakes or contradictions.”

If you acknowledge that it isn’t complete, then the most you could say is that " the Bible is the infallible and pretty much complete revelation of God to man. It was written by God through men and does not contain mistakes or contradictions–just a lot of omissions"

I don’t know.

Please elaborate.

How does pointing out the fact God was unable to make his meaning about such important things crystal help your side of this discussion? That there are groups and sub-groups of Christians who can’t agree on the meaning just shows God didn’t really care if we got this stuff or not. He could have carved this stuff on a big piece of stone that would still be with use today if any of it really mattered.

[quote]

ON THE POWER OF GOD
“… with God all things are possible.” – Matthew 19:26

“…The LORD was with Judah; and he drave out the inhabitants of the mountain; but could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley, because they had chariots of iron.” – Judges 1:19

This is much more a question of Judah then it is God’s ability. The writer is simply stating that inspite of Judah’s failures God was still with him.[/quote]

What good was he if couldn’t help?

Yes.

Who created absolutely EVERY aspect of them (including the things they are prone to)?

No, it is saying, “If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.”
You can look it up at Luke 14:26 if you don’t believe me.

ALL of them have been out of context because I didn’t cut and paste the entire Bible. Put them in a context that makes X being greater than X make sense.

[quote]
Who is the father of Joseph?

MAT 1:16 And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ.

LUK 3:23 And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli.

As stated earlier one version is Mary’s and one is Joseph’s.
As for the Father issue. When Joseph married Mary he also became the son of her Father. So that is why you have two fathers.[/quote]

Why does Matthew have no problem including women in his geneology?

112

[quote]Dragon wrote:

Depends on the way you look at it. I did say (second chance) which they will be given. If then they still mock & hate then God will judge them according to there works… just how much pain in hell they get(level). We are talking about a god who destroyed Sodom & Gomorrah:

“Then the Lord rained brimstone and fire on Sodom and Gomorrah, from the Lord out of the heavens” Genesis 19:24.
“Turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah into ashes, condemned them to destruction, making them an example to those who afterward would live ungodly” II Peter 2:6.

The lord goes not play around with the ungodly and the jesus haters. Im just telling you of what ive learned from the bible and scholars like Tim LaHaye & Jerry B. Jenkins in books like Revelation Revealed.

[/quote]

Many people prefer Hollywoods version of God to the truth. “Touchy feely” That God is much more palatable to them than the real God…

113

[quote]doogie wrote:
haney wrote:

Give me til tomorrow, and I will answer all of them for you.

Haney,

Unless you believe like JPBear that, “The most important thing to remember when reading the Bible is that it is infallible and complete revelation of God to man. It was written by God through men” then you really don’t need to bother.

I will concede that there are lots of ways to explain them all (and the many more that I didn’t cut and paste) if you don’t claim that God directly wrote the book through men. The explanatios/excuses all involve things like “different perspectives of the authors” and “transcription error”.

If you want to argue that the bible is the actual revelation of god to man–whether whispered in their ear, through voices in their head, or by physically taking their hand and writing it out–I’d love to hear your explanations. If nothing else, I’d love to hear why God didn’t have a better writing style.[/quote]

2Timothy 3:16:

“All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness.”

114

I think it is important to remember that the study of history, and the copying of history, is a flawed process by flawed individuals. If you say that the single most supported (historically and factually speaking) collection of texts in the history of the ancient writing cannot be trusted, then for what reason am I to believe that any of history actually took place? How much proof is there of the accuracy and realiability of the individuals who are accounted for in the Bible, compared to say, Ceaser Augustus? Not bashing any of the previous posters whatsoever, I am just saying the historocity of the Bible is very strong, and should not be cast about lightly.

115

[quote]haney wrote:
doogie wrote:
JPBear wrote:
The most important thing to remember when reading the Bible is that it is infallible and complete revelation of God to man. It was written by God through men and does not contain mistakes or contradictions.

Which first–beasts or man?

GEN 1:25 And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
GEN 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

GEN 2:18 And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.
GEN 2:19 And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.

kind of an easy one. Everyone knows the gen one is meant to be a specific this is what happened.

and Gen 2 is more of an adrievated version.

There is a more technical explination, but I will spare you the details.

The number of beasts in the ark

GEN 7:2 Of every clean beast thou shalt take to thee by sevens, the male and his female: and of beasts that are not clean by two, the male and his female.

GEN 7:8 Of clean beasts, and of beasts that are not clean, and of fowls, and of every thing that creepeth upon the earth, GEN 7:9 There went in two and two unto Noah into the ark, the male and the female, as God had commanded Noah.

The answer is seven of each kind. They merely entered the ark in pairs.

How many stalls and horsemen?

KI1 4:26 And Solomon had forty thousand stalls of horses for his chariots, and twelve thousand horsemen.

CH2 9:25 And Solomon had four thousand stalls for horses and chariots, and twelve thousand horsemen; whom he bestowed in the chariot cities, and with the king at Jerusalem.

copyist error.

Is it folly to be wise or not?

PRO 4:7 Wisdom is the principal thing; therefore get wisdom: and with all thy getting get understanding.

ECC 1:18 For in much wisdom is much grief: and he that increaseth knowledge increaseth sorrow.

1 Cor.1:19: “For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and wil bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.”

The first two are proverbs wise sayings, so I fail to see what the problem is with them.

As for the last you are taking it out of context.

Human vs. ghostly impregnation

ACT 2:30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;

MAT 1:18 Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost.

The answer is both. After all if David did have kids, then Mary wouldn’t be. No Mary no Jesus.

The sins of the father

ISA 14:21 Prepare slaughter for his children for the iniquity of their fathers; that they do not rise, nor possess the land, nor fill the face of the world with cities.

DEU 24:16 The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin.

One is a law, and the other is a prophetic warning.

Order of creation

Here is the order in the first (Genesis 1), the Priestly tradition:

Day 1: Sky, Earth, light
Day 2: Water, both in ocean basins and above the sky(!)
Day 3: Plants
Day 4: Sun, Moon, stars (as calendrical and navigational aids)
Day 5: Sea monsters (whales), fish, birds, land animals, creepy-crawlies (reptiles, insects, etc.)
Day 6: Humans (apparently both sexes at the same time)
Day 7: Nothing (the Gods took the first day off anyone ever did)

Note that there are “days,” “evenings,” and “mornings” before the Sun was created. Here, the Deity is referred to as “Elohim,” which is a plural, thus the literal translation, “the Gods.” In this tale, the Gods seem satisfied with what they have done, saying after each step that “it was good.”

The second one (Genesis 2), the Yahwist tradition, goes:

Earth and heavens (misty)
Adam, the first man (on a desolate Earth)
Plants
Animals
Eve, the first woman (from Adam’s rib)

How orderly were things created?
Genesis 1: Step-by-step. The only discrepancy is that there is no Sun or Moon or stars on the first three “days.”

Genesis 2: God fixes things up as he goes. The first man is lonely, and is not satisfied with animals. God finally creates a woman for him. (funny thing that an omniscient god would forget things)

How satisfied with creation was he?
Genesis 1: God says “it was good” after each of his labors, and rests on the seventh day, evidently very satisfied.

Genesis 2: God has to fix up his creation as he goes, and he would certainly not be very satisfied with the disobedience of that primordial couple.

Since there are many ways to interpret Genesis I am not going to bother with an explination. I will say that I find Augustine’s version of events absolutly fascinating.

How did Judas die and who bought the field?

Acts 1:18: “Now this man (Judas) purchased a field with the reward of iniquity; and falling headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and all his bowels gushed out.”

Matt. 27:5-7: “And he (Judas) cast down the pieces of silver in the temple, and departed, and went and hanged himself. And the chief priests…bought with them the potter’s field.”

There are three explinations for this one.

I am going to stick to the basic.
One of the versions just gives more details.

Jesus’ last words

Matt.27:46,50: “And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, “Eli, eli, lama sabachthani?” that is to say, “My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?” …Jesus, when he cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.”

Luke23:46: “And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, “Father, unto thy hands I commend my spirit:” and having said thus, he gave up the ghost.”

John19:30: “When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, “It is finished:” and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.”

I have the answer, but it requires a better laid out explination.

Years of famine–The King James version of the Bible.

II SAMUEL 24:13: So God came to David, and told him, and said unto him, shall SEVEN YEARS OF FAMINE come unto thee in thy land? or will thou flee three months before thine enemies, while they pursue. thee?

I CHRONICLES 21:11: SO God came to David, and said unto him, Thus saith the LORD, Choose thee. Either THREE YEARS OF FAMINE or three months to be destryed before thy foes, while that the sword of thine enemies overtaketh thee;

copyist error.

Who moved David to anger?

II SAMUEL 24: And again the anger of the LORD was kindled against Israel, and he moved David against them to say, Go, number Isreal and Judah.

I CHRONICLES 21: And SATAN stood up against Isreal, and provoked David to number Israel.

Job gives an example of how this could happen. Many believe in a dual agency of Satan.

The GENEALOGY OF JESUS?

In two places in the New Testament the genealogy of Jesus son of Mary is mentioned. Matthew 1:6-16 and Luke 3:23-31. Each gives the ancestors of Joseph the CLAIMED husband of Mary and Step father of Jesus. The first one starts from Abraham(verse 2) all the way down to Jesus. The second one from Jesus all the way back to Adam. The only common name to these two lists between David and Jesus is JOSEPH, How can this be true? and also How can Jesus have a genealogy when Christians believe that Jesus had/has no father?

Hmm… one is Joseph’s heritage, and the other is Mary’s.

God be seen?

Exod. 24:9,10; Amos 9:1; Gen. 26:2; and John 14:9
God CAN be seen:
“And I will take away my hand, and thou shalt see my backparts.” (Ex. 33:23)
“And the Lord spake to Moses face to face, as a man speaketh to his friend.” (Ex. 33:11)
“For I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.” (Gen. 32:30)

God CANNOT be seen:
“No man hath seen God at any time.” (John 1:18)
“And he said, Thou canst not see my face; for there shall no man see me and live.” (Ex. 33:20)
“Whom no man hath seen nor can see.” (1 Tim. 6:16)

God can’t be seen in his full glory, but he can be seen in lesser entities.

CRUEL, UNMERCIFUL, DESTRUCTIVE, and FEROCIOUS or KIND, MERCIFUL, and GOOD:

“I will not pity, nor spare, nor have mercy, but destroy.” (Jer. 13:14) “Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not, but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling.”

“The Lord is very pitiful and of tender mercy.” (James 5:11)
“For his mercy endureth forever.” (1 Chron. 16:34)
“The Lord is good to all, and his tender mercies are over all his works.” (Ps. 145:9)
“God is love.” (1 John 4:16)

God executed judgement on a nation, and used the israelites to accomplish it. It always amazes me that people assumed the amalekites were some innocent group.

Does God tempt us?

“And it came to pass after these things, that God did tempt Abraham.” (Gen 22:1)

“Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God; for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man.” (James 1:13)

Here is were that dual agency of Satan comes in handy. Being able to understand the linguistic use of the day, and not judging it by our modern standards help too.

How many beatitudes in the Sermon on the Mount

MAT 5:3 Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
MAT 5:4 Blessed are they that mourn: for they shall be comforted.
MAT 5:5 Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.
MAT 5:6 Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.
MAT 5:7 Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy.
MAT 5:8 Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.
MAT 5:9 Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.
MAT 5:10 Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness’ sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
MAT 5:11 Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.

LUK 6:20 And he lifted up his eyes on his disciples, and said, Blessed be ye poor: for yours is the kingdom of God.
LUK 6:21 Blessed are ye that hunger now: for ye shall be filled. Blessed are ye that weep now: for ye shall laugh.
LUK 6:22 Blessed are ye, when men shall hate you, and when they shall separate you from their company, and shall reproach you, and cast out your name as evil, for the Son of man’s sake.
LUK 6:23 Rejoice ye in that day, and leap for joy: for, behold, your reward is great in heaven: for in the like manner did their fathers unto the prophets.

obviously one isn’t the complete version.

but I will inact occam’s razor on this one. Isn’t that what skeptic’s do to justify the Q marcan theory?

Do you answer a fool?

PRO 26:4 Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him.

PRO 26:5 Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own conceit.

Wise saying. not required to fit the errency model.

How old was Jehoiachin when he began to reign?

KI2 24:8 Jehoiachin was eighteen years old when he began to reign, and he reigned in Jerusalem three months. And his mother’s name was Nehushta, the daughter of Elnathan of Jerusalem.

CH2 36:9 Jehoiachin was eight years old when he began to reign, and he reigned three months and ten days in Jerusalem: and he did that which was evil in the sight of the LORD.

copyist error.

Did we miss the second coming?

MAT 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

MAR 13:30 Verily I say unto you, that this generation shall not pass, till all these things be done.

LUK 21:32 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled.

Depends on your flavor of eschatology.
For me personally I am a partial preterist. So those verses aren’t an issue for me. for a dispinsationalist I think those verses are a problem.

Although they can be explained by both sides, it requires keeping the prophecy in context though.

ON THE POWER OF GOD
“… with God all things are possible.” – Matthew 19:26

“…The LORD was with Judah; and he drave out the inhabitants of the mountain; but could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley, because they had chariots of iron.” – Judges 1:19

This is much more a question of Judah then it is God’s ability. The writer is simply stating that inspite of Judah’s failures God was still with him.

ON INCEST
“Cursed be he that lieth with his sister, the daughter of his father, or the daughter of this mother…” – Deuteronomy 27:22

“And if a man shall take his sister, his father’s daughter, or his mother’s daughter…it is a wicked thing…” – Leviticus 20:17

[But what was god’s reaction to Abraham, who married his sister – his father’s daughter?] See Genesis 20:11-12

“And God said unto Abraham, As for Sara thy wife…I bless her, and give thee a son also of her…” – Genesis 17:15-16

Do I even need to bother with this one?

“The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father…” – Ezekiel 18:20

“I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation…” – Exodus 20:5

One means GOd doesn’t hold the sons responsibile for what the fathers did.

The other is simply stating that they will be prone to the same weakness that their ancestors had.

“Honor thy father and thy mother…”-- Exodus 20:12

"If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple. " – Luke 14:26

This was merely Jesus saying that to follow him meant a serious commitment.

  1. 2 Samuel 24:9 gives the total population for Israel as 800,000, whereas 1 Chronicles 21:5 says it was 1,100,000

Was Ahaziah 22 (2 Kings 8:26) or 42 (2 Chronicles 22:2) when he began to rule over Jerusalem?

Was Jehoiachin 18 years old (2 Kings 24:8) or 8 years old (2 Chronicles 36:9) when he became king of Jerusalem?

Did the chief of the mighty men of David lift up his spear and killed 800 men (2 Samuel 23:8) or only 300 men (1 Chronicles 11:11)?

Copyist error

Was Noah supposed to bring 2 pairs of all living creatures (Genesis 6:19-20), or was he to bring 7 pairs of ‘clean’ animals (Genesis 7:2; see also Genesis 7:8,9)?

Already dealt with.

Did David capture 1,700 of King Zobah’s horsemen (2 Samuel 8:4), or was it 7,000 (1 Chronicles 18:4)?

Did Solomon have 40,000 stalls for his horses (1 Kings 4:26), or 4,000 stalls (2 Chronicles 9:25)?

Did Baasha, the king of Israel die in the 26th year of king Asa’s reign (1 Kings 15:33), or was he still alive in the 36th year ( 2 Chronicles 16:1)?

Did Solomon appoint 3,600 overseers (2 Chronicles 2:2) for the work of building the temple, or was it only 3,300 (1 Kings 5:16)?

Did Solomon build a facility containing 2,000 baths (1 Kings 7:26), or over 3,000 baths (2 Chronicles 4:5)?

Both Ezra 2:64 and Nehemiah 7:66 agree that the totals for the whole assembly was 42,360, yet when the totals are added, Ezra - 29,818 and Nehemiah - 31,089?

Did 200 singers (Ezra 2:65) or 245 singers (Nehemiah 7:67) accompany the assembly?

Was Jechoniah (Matthew 1:12) or Neri (Luke 3:27) the father of Shealtiel?

Were there fourteen (Matthew 1:17) or thirteen (Matthew 1:12-16) generations from the Babylonian exile until Christ?

Who was the father of Shelah; Cainan (Luke 3:35-36) or Arphaxad (Genesis 11:12)?

Simon Peter finds out that Jesus was the Christ by a revelation from heaven (Matthew 16:17), or by His brother Andrew (John 1:41)?

When Jesus met Jairus, his daughter ‘had just died’ (Matthew 9:18), or was ‘at the point of death’ (Mark 5:23)?

When Jesus entered Jerusalem he cleansed (Matthew 21:12) or did not cleanse (Mark 11:1-17) the temple that same day, but the next day?

Most of these are copyist error.

Is Jesus equal to or lesser than?

JOH 10:30 I and my Father are one.

JOH 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

These are just taken way out of context.

Who is the father of Joseph?

MAT 1:16 And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ.

LUK 3:23 And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli.

As stated earlier one version is Mary’s and one is Joseph’s.
As for the Father issue. When Joseph married Mary he also became the son of her Father. So that is why you have two fathers.[/quote]

haney, That was an outstanding job!

Usually when the crackpots come out of the woodwork to attempt to plant a doubt in believers minds they fail. The reason is that they really don’t know the scripture to begin with. They end up cutting and pasting from some anti Christian web site.

It never works out for them…

Again, nice work!

116

[quote]doogie wrote:
edgecrusher wrote:

Hmmmm, somehow these “contradictions” look strangely familiar…

They sounded strangely familiar to you? I didn’t think you’re the type of guy be reading infidels.org That’s interesting.[/quote]

That YOU are the type of guy that spends time on indidels.org is even more telling!

117

[quote]Dragon wrote:
pitbull314 wrote:
Dragon wrote:
ZEB wrote:
All of the hate mongers on this thread who attack Christianity have gods of their own.

Some worship alcohol.

Some drugs.

Some sex.

Some money.

And who knows what else, but they worship something…

As for one of my favorite verses:

Galatians 6:7-8

[i]"Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.

For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting."[i]

Amen. Its ok ZEB, once the lord returns (which will be soon) all the mockers & haters will get whats coming to them (tribulation (second chance), then hell if they dont ask for forgiveness from Son). And us “gentiles” will reign in heaven with our LORD. Hal-a-lu-ya,for ever and ever, Amen.

Keep your head up,
Dragon

thats not a very “christian” thing to say.

Depends on the way you look at it. I did say (second chance) which they will be given. If then they still mock & hate then God will judge them according to there works… just how much pain in hell they get(level). We are talking about a god who destroyed Sodom & Gomorrah:

“Then the Lord rained brimstone and fire on Sodom and Gomorrah, from the Lord out of the heavens” Genesis 19:24.
“Turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah into ashes, condemned them to destruction, making them an example to those who afterward would live ungodly” II Peter 2:6.

The lord goes not play around with the ungodly and the jesus haters. Im just telling you of what ive learned from the bible and scholars like Tim LaHaye & Jerry B. Jenkins in books like Revelation Revealed.

When you call the people who wrote the “Left Behind” series ‘scholars’, everyone else in the world laughs really hard.

[/quote]

118

[quote]ZEB wrote:
doogie wrote:
edgecrusher wrote:

Hmmmm, somehow these “contradictions” look strangely familiar…

They sounded strangely familiar to you? I didn’t think you’re the type of guy be reading infidels.org That’s interesting.

That YOU are the type of guy that spends time on indidels.org is even more telling!

[/quote]
I AM an infidel, so why there is no surprise at all in my being there.

He’s a Christian and goes there. That’s strange.

119

Doogie:

Why is it so hard to believe a Christian does not want to know what non-believers mistakenly think?

How else can we talk to people who don’t believe unless we know why they think that (mistaken/mislead/ignorant) way?

Btw…I’m not saying he does look at it, but just giving you something to think over.

120

[quote]doogie wrote:
He’s a Christian and goes there. That’s strange.
[/quote]

A true Christian will not shield himself from other religions or beliefs. It would be absurd to not know anything else. If a Christian is exposed to other religions or beliefs and is afraid that it may change their belief, then their faith is not strong enough to begin with.

A true Christian would study those beliefs so he/she can be educated in what others believe/think. A true Christian will put faith in God and know that if he does study other religions or beliefs, he will still remain a Christian and continue his faith in Christ. He will not fall off the path or question his faith.