[quote]elano wrote:
stockzy wrote:
And if the father didn’t have access to a gun…?
Sorry. Couldn’t help myself 
He probobally would have smashed him in the head with a bat.
Seriously, why do people think there would be no more killings without guns? Not like anybody killed anyone else before 1700 right? Dumbass.[/quote]
If someone wanted to kill me I would rather see him with a bat or a knife than a gun
[quote]cremaster wrote:
Rekkitanko wrote:
…Then County Prosecutor says: “No individual has the right to exact the death penalty on another, no matter how reprehensible the behavior. That is why we have laws,” … oh right is that why, I dono, death penalty is still around…
The prosecutor is saying that no INDIVIDUAL can appoint themselves judge/jury/executioner.
That the state sanctions death penalties is another issue.[/quote]
Makes more sense. But, I don’t like prosecutors.
[quote]Rekkitanko wrote:
pzehtoeur wrote:
Rekkitanko wrote:
I’ll refrain from giving my opinion over the incident but here is a thought.
Everbody is always arguing that, if anyone ever touched their kid, they’ll go Hannibal on their ass, well, if the turth is indeed being told here, nobody seems to be on the side of the father. The aunt is freaked out, the family finds this unacceptable. Yet I am sure that if a stranger molested their kid, it would be all different. What aggravates me is that those people are to simple to even grasp this concept.
Then County Prosecutor says: “No individual has the right to exact the death penalty on another, no matter how reprehensible the behavior. That is why we have laws,” … oh right is that why, I dono, death penalty is still around.
So yeah for all of you who say he is a sick fuck, what would you do if someone molested your mother, daughter, wife?
That’s a good point but you have to realize that was his son. He basically murdered his child while “protecting” another (assuming the story is true).
Let’s quickly examine what family bond is without getting all technical and nitpicky.
1/ Biological: you share a higher quantity of genes with this individual than any other person on the planet. 2/ Emotional: a long history of experiences with this person has built strong memories from which emotions arise. 3/ Belonging: that person is related to you is part of >your< life.
Number one really isn’t of much concern. The reason one wouldn’t want to kill their own son is because of the emotional bond and belongingness factor.
So we are left with two reasons for not killing a person. Now, emotions are as fragile as glass, one day you love your wife the next day she leaves you for another man, gets the kids, the house and you are left giving her half of your salary so she can suck this other guy’s dick and go on holidays to Hawaii. This would be enough for any person to hate another individual. Once hate has been introduced in the equation, killing becomes real easy.
Belongingness. Your wife never really was yours to begin with, your son on the other hand couldn’t be without your existence, this makes him YOUR son, the same way buying a car makes it YOURS (like I said let’s not get all nitpicky, obviously those are not the best analogies, but in this context it should suffice). You wouldn’t crash your car, unless you are a douche from Texas driving a luxury car, but imagine you’ve been fired from work, you pop your hood to get a baseball bat and smash it to pieces just to get the anger out of your system. And as it is yours you can decide what ever you want to do with it.
So, you are left with no reason to not kill him, except “political correctness” and ethicality and a right sense of retribution which basically comes to the same thing. This is in fact the only reason you don’t kill some random guy who sucker punched you at a bar and grabbed your gf’s goodies.
But quite francly if you eliminate emotions it becomes really easy, it might not make it ethical, which is not to say that it isn’t intrinsically the right thing to do.
Let’s go a step further, how would you feel if the son rapped your wife, daughter 5 years later. Would you then want to kill him, would you think he was badly brought up, indirectly blaming the parents, meaning that the father owned up by killing him.
Just a thought.
He may get less than life if his lawyer is any good. An exceptionnal lawyer might even get him walking a free man.[/quote]
I think you’re discounting how stong the emotion love can be.
While emotions do typically go to extremes in cases such as these, love can also make you stop and think a little more rational about the situation. It’s still your child.
Also, this sort of knee-jerk reaction, is rarely heard of in these cases.
[quote]imhungry wrote:
Rekkitanko wrote:
pzehtoeur wrote:
Rekkitanko wrote:
I’ll refrain from giving my opinion over the incident but here is a thought.
Everbody is always arguing that, if anyone ever touched their kid, they’ll go Hannibal on their ass, well, if the turth is indeed being told here, nobody seems to be on the side of the father. The aunt is freaked out, the family finds this unacceptable. Yet I am sure that if a stranger molested their kid, it would be all different. What aggravates me is that those people are to simple to even grasp this concept.
Then County Prosecutor says: “No individual has the right to exact the death penalty on another, no matter how reprehensible the behavior. That is why we have laws,” … oh right is that why, I dono, death penalty is still around.
So yeah for all of you who say he is a sick fuck, what would you do if someone molested your mother, daughter, wife?
That’s a good point but you have to realize that was his son. He basically murdered his child while “protecting” another (assuming the story is true).
Let’s quickly examine what family bond is without getting all technical and nitpicky.
1/ Biological: you share a higher quantity of genes with this individual than any other person on the planet. 2/ Emotional: a long history of experiences with this person has built strong memories from which emotions arise. 3/ Belonging: that person is related to you is part of >your< life.
Number one really isn’t of much concern. The reason one wouldn’t want to kill their own son is because of the emotional bond and belongingness factor.
So we are left with two reasons for not killing a person. Now, emotions are as fragile as glass, one day you love your wife the next day she leaves you for another man, gets the kids, the house and you are left giving her half of your salary so she can suck this other guy’s dick and go on holidays to Hawaii. This would be enough for any person to hate another individual. Once hate has been introduced in the equation, killing becomes real easy.
Belongingness. Your wife never really was yours to begin with, your son on the other hand couldn’t be without your existence, this makes him YOUR son, the same way buying a car makes it YOURS (like I said let’s not get all nitpicky, obviously those are not the best analogies, but in this context it should suffice). You wouldn’t crash your car, unless you are a douche from Texas driving a luxury car, but imagine you’ve been fired from work, you pop your hood to get a baseball bat and smash it to pieces just to get the anger out of your system. And as it is yours you can decide what ever you want to do with it.
So, you are left with no reason to not kill him, except “political correctness” and ethicality and a right sense of retribution which basically comes to the same thing. This is in fact the only reason you don’t kill some random guy who sucker punched you at a bar and grabbed your gf’s goodies.
But quite francly if you eliminate emotions it becomes really easy, it might not make it ethical, which is not to say that it isn’t intrinsically the right thing to do.
Let’s go a step further, how would you feel if the son rapped your wife, daughter 5 years later. Would you then want to kill him, would you think he was badly brought up, indirectly blaming the parents, meaning that the father owned up by killing him.
Just a thought.
He may get less than life if his lawyer is any good. An exceptionnal lawyer might even get him walking a free man.
I think you’re discounting how stong the emotion love can be.
While emotions do typically go to extremes in cases such as these, love can also make you stop and think a little more rational about the situation. It’s still your child.
Also, this sort of knee-jerk reaction, is rarely heard of in these cases.[/quote]
I don’t have a child to relate this too but I have a brother that I do love so much and so unconditionally that I can’t think of any scenario where I would be willing to ‘put him down.’ That’s the closest I can imagine how someone might feel about their own child. And it also follows that I don’t know what I’d do to someone who brought him harm. I can’t imagine how fucked up it would be to have those kind of forces opposing. Right or wrong isn’t a factor at this level.
[quote]cremaster wrote:
Rekkitanko wrote:
…Then County Prosecutor says: “No individual has the right to exact the death penalty on another, no matter how reprehensible the behavior. That is why we have laws,” … oh right is that why, I dono, death penalty is still around…
The prosecutor is saying that no INDIVIDUAL can appoint themselves judge/jury/executioner.
That the state sanctions death penalties is another issue.[/quote]
They can in Texas.
You are probably right, Hungry. But then why did HE do it? I don’t know the family, the neighbourhood or the father, he may be a junky for all I know. From what I gathered, it sounds like the father flipped out completly and acted quite congruently with how someone in his position would.
What if it were the kid (at 15 you really do look like a kid) from accross the street, who goes to church on sundays, isn’t a gangbanger, sings songs at Christmas? IMO, just mine, it really only comes down to how ethical one person is.
[quote]Rekkitanko wrote:
You are probably right, Hungry. But then why did HE do it? I don’t know the family, the neighbourhood or the father, he may be a junky for all I know. From what I gathered, it sounds like the father flipped out completly and acted quite congruently with how someone in his position would.
What if it were the kid (at 15 you really do look like a kid) from accross the street, who goes to church on sundays, isn’t a gangbanger, sings songs at Christmas? IMO, just mine, it really only comes down to how ethical one person is.[/quote]
The main part of this is, the fact that he was so methodical about it. Making his own flesh and blood get naked and shooting him execution style.
But, you’re right, we don’t know all of the facts to this. It’s just sad and tragic.
[quote]debraD wrote:
imhungry wrote:
Rekkitanko wrote:
pzehtoeur wrote:
Rekkitanko wrote:
I’ll refrain from giving my opinion over the incident but here is a thought.
Everbody is always arguing that, if anyone ever touched their kid, they’ll go Hannibal on their ass, well, if the turth is indeed being told here, nobody seems to be on the side of the father. The aunt is freaked out, the family finds this unacceptable. Yet I am sure that if a stranger molested their kid, it would be all different. What aggravates me is that those people are to simple to even grasp this concept.
Then County Prosecutor says: “No individual has the right to exact the death penalty on another, no matter how reprehensible the behavior. That is why we have laws,” … oh right is that why, I dono, death penalty is still around.
So yeah for all of you who say he is a sick fuck, what would you do if someone molested your mother, daughter, wife?
That’s a good point but you have to realize that was his son. He basically murdered his child while “protecting” another (assuming the story is true).
Let’s quickly examine what family bond is without getting all technical and nitpicky.
1/ Biological: you share a higher quantity of genes with this individual than any other person on the planet. 2/ Emotional: a long history of experiences with this person has built strong memories from which emotions arise. 3/ Belonging: that person is related to you is part of >your< life.
Number one really isn’t of much concern. The reason one wouldn’t want to kill their own son is because of the emotional bond and belongingness factor.
So we are left with two reasons for not killing a person. Now, emotions are as fragile as glass, one day you love your wife the next day she leaves you for another man, gets the kids, the house and you are left giving her half of your salary so she can suck this other guy’s dick and go on holidays to Hawaii. This would be enough for any person to hate another individual. Once hate has been introduced in the equation, killing becomes real easy.
Belongingness. Your wife never really was yours to begin with, your son on the other hand couldn’t be without your existence, this makes him YOUR son, the same way buying a car makes it YOURS (like I said let’s not get all nitpicky, obviously those are not the best analogies, but in this context it should suffice). You wouldn’t crash your car, unless you are a douche from Texas driving a luxury car, but imagine you’ve been fired from work, you pop your hood to get a baseball bat and smash it to pieces just to get the anger out of your system. And as it is yours you can decide what ever you want to do with it.
So, you are left with no reason to not kill him, except “political correctness” and ethicality and a right sense of retribution which basically comes to the same thing. This is in fact the only reason you don’t kill some random guy who sucker punched you at a bar and grabbed your gf’s goodies.
But quite francly if you eliminate emotions it becomes really easy, it might not make it ethical, which is not to say that it isn’t intrinsically the right thing to do.
Let’s go a step further, how would you feel if the son rapped your wife, daughter 5 years later. Would you then want to kill him, would you think he was badly brought up, indirectly blaming the parents, meaning that the father owned up by killing him.
Just a thought.
He may get less than life if his lawyer is any good. An exceptionnal lawyer might even get him walking a free man.
I think you’re discounting how stong the emotion love can be.
While emotions do typically go to extremes in cases such as these, love can also make you stop and think a little more rational about the situation. It’s still your child.
Also, this sort of knee-jerk reaction, is rarely heard of in these cases.
I don’t have a child to relate this too but I have a brother that I do love so much and so unconditionally that I can’t think of any scenario where I would be willing to ‘put him down.’ That’s the closest I can imagine how someone might feel about their own child. And it also follows that I don’t know what I’d do to someone who brought him harm. I can’t imagine how fucked up it would be to have those kind of forces opposing. Right or wrong isn’t a factor at this level.[/quote]
Well like I said the best example is to look at your life partner, imagine that he cheated on you, that he gets your kids, your house, your car, your dog, your camera ;o) and half of your salary for the rest of your life, wouldn’t you wanna rip his head off, I am not saying you would really do it but still. Yet a month ago he was your family, you had a family, a house, a car and now you are basically left with nothing. If you can imagine killing him you can imagine anything. Now it is quite normal to be protective of your own family, but I could easily find examples where you may rethink this.
[quote]imhungry wrote:
Rekkitanko wrote:
You are probably right, Hungry. But then why did HE do it? I don’t know the family, the neighbourhood or the father, he may be a junky for all I know. From what I gathered, it sounds like the father flipped out completly and acted quite congruently with how someone in his position would.
What if it were the kid (at 15 you really do look like a kid) from accross the street, who goes to church on sundays, isn’t a gangbanger, sings songs at Christmas? IMO, just mine, it really only comes down to how ethical one person is.
The main part of this is, the fact that he was so methodical about it. Making his own flesh and blood get naked and shooting him execution style.
But, you’re right, we don’t know all of the facts to this. It’s just sad and tragic.[/quote]
It’s quite sad to see how low humanity has sunck.
[quote]Rekkitanko wrote:
debraD wrote:
imhungry wrote:
Rekkitanko wrote:
pzehtoeur wrote:
Rekkitanko wrote:
I’ll refrain from giving my opinion over the incident but here is a thought.
Everbody is always arguing that, if anyone ever touched their kid, they’ll go Hannibal on their ass, well, if the turth is indeed being told here, nobody seems to be on the side of the father. The aunt is freaked out, the family finds this unacceptable. Yet I am sure that if a stranger molested their kid, it would be all different. What aggravates me is that those people are to simple to even grasp this concept.
Then County Prosecutor says: “No individual has the right to exact the death penalty on another, no matter how reprehensible the behavior. That is why we have laws,” … oh right is that why, I dono, death penalty is still around.
So yeah for all of you who say he is a sick fuck, what would you do if someone molested your mother, daughter, wife?
That’s a good point but you have to realize that was his son. He basically murdered his child while “protecting” another (assuming the story is true).
Let’s quickly examine what family bond is without getting all technical and nitpicky.
1/ Biological: you share a higher quantity of genes with this individual than any other person on the planet. 2/ Emotional: a long history of experiences with this person has built strong memories from which emotions arise. 3/ Belonging: that person is related to you is part of >your< life.
Number one really isn’t of much concern. The reason one wouldn’t want to kill their own son is because of the emotional bond and belongingness factor.
So we are left with two reasons for not killing a person. Now, emotions are as fragile as glass, one day you love your wife the next day she leaves you for another man, gets the kids, the house and you are left giving her half of your salary so she can suck this other guy’s dick and go on holidays to Hawaii. This would be enough for any person to hate another individual. Once hate has been introduced in the equation, killing becomes real easy.
Belongingness. Your wife never really was yours to begin with, your son on the other hand couldn’t be without your existence, this makes him YOUR son, the same way buying a car makes it YOURS (like I said let’s not get all nitpicky, obviously those are not the best analogies, but in this context it should suffice). You wouldn’t crash your car, unless you are a douche from Texas driving a luxury car, but imagine you’ve been fired from work, you pop your hood to get a baseball bat and smash it to pieces just to get the anger out of your system. And as it is yours you can decide what ever you want to do with it.
So, you are left with no reason to not kill him, except “political correctness” and ethicality and a right sense of retribution which basically comes to the same thing. This is in fact the only reason you don’t kill some random guy who sucker punched you at a bar and grabbed your gf’s goodies.
But quite francly if you eliminate emotions it becomes really easy, it might not make it ethical, which is not to say that it isn’t intrinsically the right thing to do.
Let’s go a step further, how would you feel if the son rapped your wife, daughter 5 years later. Would you then want to kill him, would you think he was badly brought up, indirectly blaming the parents, meaning that the father owned up by killing him.
Just a thought.
He may get less than life if his lawyer is any good. An exceptionnal lawyer might even get him walking a free man.
I think you’re discounting how stong the emotion love can be.
While emotions do typically go to extremes in cases such as these, love can also make you stop and think a little more rational about the situation. It’s still your child.
Also, this sort of knee-jerk reaction, is rarely heard of in these cases.
I don’t have a child to relate this too but I have a brother that I do love so much and so unconditionally that I can’t think of any scenario where I would be willing to ‘put him down.’ That’s the closest I can imagine how someone might feel about their own child. And it also follows that I don’t know what I’d do to someone who brought him harm. I can’t imagine how fucked up it would be to have those kind of forces opposing. Right or wrong isn’t a factor at this level.
Well like I said the best example is to look at your life partner, imagine that he cheated on you, that he gets your kids, your house, your car, your dog, your camera ;o) and half of your salary for the rest of your life, wouldn’t you wanna rip his head off, I am not saying you would really do it but still. Yet a month ago he was your family, you had a family, a house, a car and now you are basically left with nothing. If you can imagine killing him you can imagine anything. Now it is quite normal to be protective of your own family, but I could easily find examples where you may rethink this.
[/quote]
Well there is a reason I chose my brother because this is not something he could do to me; he is in fact the only person in my life I can have unconditional love for because I know he won’t ever bring me harm. My partner on the other hand can destroy me, like you’ve described. And can potentially hurt me terrible simply by not loving me anymore. This is why family love and romantic love are quite different beasts. Of course at this moment I cannot imagine what my partner would have to do for me to not be able to forgive him but I sure that something exists.
The question becomes is it wrong to do the right thing?
Let’s say the father just killed Hitler or Stalin. We could argue that at such young age you can hardly juge someone’s integrity. I know I would have the hardest time looking at my son if he tortured a little girl for example, then shot her in the head. I may not kill him, but he would probably be dead to me, I’d throw him out of my house. Yet if I kill him, I can be sure that never again he will hurt another human being.
I wouldn’t have wasted the little bastard, but I would have found some legal way to make sure none of the family ever saw him again. I would probably try to have him put away somewhere.
I take a very hard line when it comes to sexual abuse and rape.
[quote]Rekkitanko wrote:
The question becomes is it wrong to do the right thing?
Let’s say the father just killed Hitler or Stalin. We could argue that at such young age you can hardly juge someone’s integrity. I know I would have the hardest time looking at my son if he tortured a little girl for example, then shot her in the head. I may not kill him, but he would probably be dead to me, I’d throw him out of my house. Yet if I kill him, I can be sure that never again he will hurt another human being.[/quote]
At the same time, maybe he realizes what a disgusting thing he did (after all, he did confess to doing it) and seeks counselling. It’s also unusual for someone to admit to doing something like that, so I would tend to think that he could’ve been helped.
[quote]Rekkitanko wrote:
The question becomes is it wrong to do the right thing?
Let’s say the father just killed Hitler or Stalin.[/quote]
Irrelevant.
Not the case.
End of discussion.
End of discussion. Not justified.
Please refrain from posting any more inconclusive ideas.
[quote]Rekkitanko wrote:
But then why did HE do it?[/quote]
Irrelevant.
This was his son.
Not the case.
Try to justify your thoughts a little bit more thoroughly. You will find that you may have to do some research and possibly some soul searching but ultimately you will have a more positive outlook on life as well as a new found respect for the humane treatment of fellow human beings.
A 15 year old does not have the mental capacity to understand the repercussions of his actions. That can be a hard quality to amend in life. But I am not in defense of the 15 year old’s actions – that’s not the point. Rather, I am in full opposition to the father’s actions. He was wrong. Taking a life is wrong. Nevermind, your own son’s life. Cut and dry.
Life without possibility of parole.
Good isn’t the same as right.
It might be good for the world that that kid was killed, but that doesn’t make it right to have him executed in this situation. I’ve not problem with the death penalty, but this situation is a bit too far.
I’m not sure how I would respond, I’m pretty sure I wouldn’t execute the kid. But, I do have a 3 year old daughter and can sympathize. It would take a lot of willpower not to just react and kill who does it, but I would most definitely make sure that they disappeared sometime in the near future and I would have a solid alibi.
Hypothetically, what if the kid were wearing skinny jeans. Would shooting him be ok?
[quote]imhungry wrote:
brauny96 wrote:
markdp wrote:
I would formally like to renounce my membership in the human race.
Im moving to uranus, you ready to go?
Fixed.
Is the rent cheap? I only charge 5 bucks to let holymac to put it in my anus
[/quote]
I dont like people normally living in my anus, but you could be an exception.
[quote]Rekkitanko wrote:
I’ll refrain from giving my opinion over the incident but here is a thought.
Everbody is always arguing that, if anyone ever touched their kid, they’ll go Hannibal on their ass, well, if the turth is indeed being told here, nobody seems to be on the side of the father. The aunt is freaked out, the family finds this unacceptable. Yet I am sure that if a stranger molested their kid, it would be all different. What aggravates me is that those people are to simple to even grasp this concept.
Then County Prosecutor says: “No individual has the right to exact the death penalty on another, no matter how reprehensible the behavior. That is why we have laws,” … oh right is that why, I dono, death penalty is still around.
So yeah for all of you who say he is a sick fuck, what would you do if someone molested your mother, daughter, wife?[/quote]
no death penalty in Michigan