Fat Acceptance

Off Topic
61

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

You stop corn subsidies. You educate people correctly. You ban misleading advertisements which try to convince viewers that HFCS is healthy.

Fair start?[/quote]

Yes!

We have him converted from “tax HFCS sodas” to “stop subsidizing corn”.

One more success for MILF!

Militant Internet Libertian Front, in case anyone wondered…[/quote]

Unless you want to make a case for corn subsidies?[/quote]

No, but my heart gets all warm and squishy that you no longer want to take money from people to achieve your desired ends, but that you want to let them keep it in order to achieve the same ends.

Apply that more often and we will make you a solid liberaltarian yet.

Not a real libertarian mind you, for that you would have to have Prof X gut reaction, but someone who can speak to a group of libertarians without the background noise of ratcheting guns. [/quote]

The effect will be the same though: the price of everything made with corn will go up. So I’m still quite evil, mind you.

62

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
Also, you’re building a nice little army of strawmen, X.

I never said people will stop overindulging if you remove fast food. Shove your LOL up your ass, please.

I never said fast food should be ILLEGAL. Seriously? Where do you come up with this shit?

Yes. Clearly I think anyone eating a McDonalds burger should be apprehended and sentenced to life in prison. Come the fuck on, how the fuck do you become a dentist and turn around and say shit like that?[/quote]

You wrote:

Ok, what were you implying here if not the focus on fast food places as the cause?

You just made some comment about Japan…as if the SOCIAL SETTING wasn’t why there was a difference.

You don’t jump into a society and make major change without setting a legal standard.

Your options at changing an entire society are pretty much limited to religion, politics, and judicial action.

That isn’t a strawman. That is someone thinking past where you just did.[/quote]

You stop corn subsidies. You educate people correctly. You ban misleading advertisements which try to convince viewers that HFCS is healthy.

Fair start?[/quote]

I agree with the HFCS thing, but I think the average fat person knows they shouldnt be guzzling the next sugary big gulp. They do it anyway because it’s comforting. I know many fat people who are well educated in health matters but have just let themselves go because it’s easy. It’s sad for them but I don’t pity someone who created this mess for themselves. And like others have said, they contribute to the rising cost of health care.

63

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

You stop corn subsidies. You educate people correctly. You ban misleading advertisements which try to convince viewers that HFCS is healthy.

Fair start?[/quote]

Yes!

We have him converted from “tax HFCS sodas” to “stop subsidizing corn”.

One more success for MILF!

Militant Internet Libertian Front, in case anyone wondered…[/quote]

Unless you want to make a case for corn subsidies?[/quote]

No, but my heart gets all warm and squishy that you no longer want to take money from people to achieve your desired ends, but that you want to let them keep it in order to achieve the same ends.

Apply that more often and we will make you a solid liberaltarian yet.

Not a real libertarian mind you, for that you would have to have Prof X gut reaction, but someone who can speak to a group of libertarians without the background noise of ratcheting guns. [/quote]

The effect will be the same though: the price of everything made with corn will go up. So I’m still quite evil, mind you.[/quote]

Not really.

Things cost what they cost and if its up to me what I do with my money, I may buy it or I wont.

Be more evil more often please.

64

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

You stop corn subsidies. You educate people correctly. You ban misleading advertisements which try to convince viewers that HFCS is healthy.

Fair start?[/quote]

Yes!

We have him converted from “tax HFCS sodas” to “stop subsidizing corn”.

One more success for MILF!

Militant Internet Libertian Front, in case anyone wondered…[/quote]

Unless you want to make a case for corn subsidies?[/quote]

No, but my heart gets all warm and squishy that you no longer want to take money from people to achieve your desired ends, but that you want to let them keep it in order to achieve the same ends.

Apply that more often and we will make you a solid liberaltarian yet.

Not a real libertarian mind you, for that you would have to have Prof X gut reaction, but someone who can speak to a group of libertarians without the background noise of ratcheting guns. [/quote]

The effect will be the same though: the price of everything made with corn will go up. So I’m still quite evil, mind you.[/quote]

Not really.

Things cost what they cost and if its up to me what I do with my money, I may buy it or I wont.

Be more evil more often please. [/quote]

So how is a tax “taking money from people”? Don’t they have the option to simply not buy the things being taxed?

65

[quote]MytchBucanan wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
Also, you’re building a nice little army of strawmen, X.

I never said people will stop overindulging if you remove fast food. Shove your LOL up your ass, please.

I never said fast food should be ILLEGAL. Seriously? Where do you come up with this shit?

Yes. Clearly I think anyone eating a McDonalds burger should be apprehended and sentenced to life in prison. Come the fuck on, how the fuck do you become a dentist and turn around and say shit like that?[/quote]

You wrote:

Ok, what were you implying here if not the focus on fast food places as the cause?

You just made some comment about Japan…as if the SOCIAL SETTING wasn’t why there was a difference.

You don’t jump into a society and make major change without setting a legal standard.

Your options at changing an entire society are pretty much limited to religion, politics, and judicial action.

That isn’t a strawman. That is someone thinking past where you just did.[/quote]

You stop corn subsidies. You educate people correctly. You ban misleading advertisements which try to convince viewers that HFCS is healthy.

Fair start?[/quote]

I agree with the HFCS thing, but I think the average fat person knows they shouldnt be guzzling the next sugary big gulp. They do it anyway because it’s comforting. I know many fat people who are well educated in health matters but have just let themselves go because it’s easy. It’s sad for them but I don’t pity someone who created this mess for themselves. And like others have said, they contribute to the rising cost of health care.
[/quote]

Not really.

Government mandates that make you shoulder part of the costs make your bills go up.

This is government pitting you against people with, um, unusual food preferences, no more, no less.

66

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

You stop corn subsidies. You educate people correctly. You ban misleading advertisements which try to convince viewers that HFCS is healthy.

Fair start?[/quote]

Yes!

We have him converted from “tax HFCS sodas” to “stop subsidizing corn”.

One more success for MILF!

Militant Internet Libertian Front, in case anyone wondered…[/quote]

Unless you want to make a case for corn subsidies?[/quote]

No, but my heart gets all warm and squishy that you no longer want to take money from people to achieve your desired ends, but that you want to let them keep it in order to achieve the same ends.

Apply that more often and we will make you a solid liberaltarian yet.

Not a real libertarian mind you, for that you would have to have Prof X gut reaction, but someone who can speak to a group of libertarians without the background noise of ratcheting guns. [/quote]

The effect will be the same though: the price of everything made with corn will go up. So I’m still quite evil, mind you.[/quote]

Not really.

Things cost what they cost and if its up to me what I do with my money, I may buy it or I wont.

Be more evil more often please. [/quote]

So how is a tax “taking money from people”? Don’t they have the option to simply not buy the things being taxed?[/quote]

They also have the option of creating a black market, which they very often do.

Be that as it may, it is intended to change other peoples behavior, which is a form of treating them like livestock.

Not taxing them and letting them make their own decision with the money they made means respecting them as human beings.

67

After a while I become ignorant
No matter how much I will tell my child your responsible for your actions/ your self
He/ she will learn one day through trail and error
Old friend "bro you put on weight, what program are you on?
Me “I just honestly eat a lot now”
Old friend “How many times you hit chest/ shoulders?” “they real swole”
Me “I’m eating way more than I use to”
This is me becoming ignorant in this thread
P.O.M.E (product of my environment) > Personal responsibility
And me stating you are who YOU want to be
There ain’t nobody holding a gun to your head making you eat 30 cheese burgers a day
You are what you eat
You are your fucking Responsibility

68

[quote]young n wrote:
After a while I become ignorant
No matter how much I will tell my child your responsible for your actions/ your self
He/ she will learn one day through trail and error
Old friend "bro you put on weight, what program are you on?
Me “I just honestly eat a lot now”
Old friend “How many times you hit chest/ shoulders?” “they real swole”
Me “I’m eating way more than I use to”
This is me becoming ignorant in this thread
P.O.M.E (product of my environment) > Personal responsibility
And me stating you are who YOU want to be
There ain’t nobody holding a gun to your head making you eat 30 cheese burgers a day
You are what you eat
You are your fucking Responsibility[/quote]

Weirdest poem I’ve ever read.

69

Its all about education, especially for “western” countries such as the US and Australia. To change the culture would be impossible.

Did you know that in some eastern european countries, even kids laugh at the idea of McDonalds and prefer a home made meal.

How the hell is drinking a super large whipped cream caramel fudgey wudgey coffee for breakfast normal? And you buy this from dunkin donuts. Dunkin fucking donuts?

I think the rise of the coorperates have had a large impact on moulding the “western” culture. You will now laugh at me, tell me Im wrong, and mock my tweet, but you all know I am right.

tweet

70

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Why would we want to get rid of all fast food because some people can’t control themselves?

You could apply the same logic to damn near everything from over the counter pain meds to speed limits.

People who think the human race needs even more regulation for minor shit that is personal responsibility scare the shit out of me.[/quote]

Because the majority of people will act in accordance with the normal reaction to their environment.

This is why there is more crime in poor neighborhoods, why the majority of people in America are some form of Christian and the majority of people in the middle east are some form of Muslim, and why advertising works.

So, when you have a problem with obesity rates skyrocketing, you need to look at the environment (the food culture and landscape) - instead of expecting the majority to act in direct opposition to the normal reaction to that environment/landscape.[/quote]

Aaah…so people will stop overindulging if you remove “fast food”?

LOL

And wait…they will stop drinking alcohol if we make it illegal?

And wait…they will stop smoking weed if we do enough “this is your brain on drugs” commercials?

People are fat because they are lazy and like the taste of food. You won’t be able to force an entire population to stop being lazy. You would have to remove all of our “comforts” and technology to pull that off.[/quote]

So wait, why aren’t 30% of people in Japan obese?[/quote]

Completely different social standards and customs…thus why I said there will be no real change unless we literally uprooted our current society and got rid of technology and comfort.

As long as we live in a society where the IN thing to do is stuff yourself with Chocolate Mocha Coffee drinks from Starbucks while surfing the net on your phone and NOT exercising seriously, don’t think removing fast food will solve the issue.

All that does is remove the freedom of choice and make the choice ILLEGAL, just like all of the other examples I just gave you.

Trust me, Japanese people get fat like everyone else HERE.[/quote]

Ok, different social standards and customs.

What dictates those social standards and customs?[/quote]
Does he look like a sociologist to you? most differences in health status (or weight) between races are not because of biological differences.

71

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
You stop calling pizza a fucking vegetable. You require that schools feed kids food that is actually healthy.[/quote]

You sir are out of line. It was already established in the nutrition forum that eating frozen pizzas daily is ok… Oh man, I just can’t let that one go huh :smiley:

seriously though, I agree with you.

72

I see. Stop subsidizing corn, wheat, etc. Shift those funds to growers of veggies and fruits. This will have a leveling effect in the market right? What do cows eat? Fuck that! Feed them grass! Can our agricultural infrastructure be retooled/configured to meet this new demand? How many fuckin people live in the United States again? We’re gonna feed them all dead animals and produce? Sounds complicated…

73

[quote]test driven wrote:
I see. Stop subsidizing corn, wheat, etc. Shift those funds to growers of veggies and fruits. This will have a leveling effect in the market right? What do cows eat? Fuck that! Feed them grass! Can our agricultural infrastructure be retooled/configured to meet this new demand? How many fuckin people live in the United States again? We’re gonna feed them all dead animals and produce? Sounds complicated…[/quote]

How many of them need to eat less :wink:

74

[quote]jehovasfitness wrote:

[quote]test driven wrote:
I see. Stop subsidizing corn, wheat, etc. Shift those funds to growers of veggies and fruits. This will have a leveling effect in the market right? What do cows eat? Fuck that! Feed them grass! Can our agricultural infrastructure be retooled/configured to meet this new demand? How many fuckin people live in the United States again? We’re gonna feed them all dead animals and produce? Sounds complicated…[/quote]

How many of them need to eat less ;)[/quote]

They have answers for your rhetorical question at WalMart

75

[quote]theBird wrote:
Its all about education[/quote]

No it’s not. We are arguably the most educated society on the planet on this subject. There are 57,000 books on nutrition on Amazon.com. There are over 2000 nutrition text books there too. If you scan the magazine stand at the grocery store you’ll see countless articles about how you should eat. We have a food plate that every kid is educated on. So it’s not a matter of education because everyone knows what they should be eating. Now I’m not talking figure model here, I’m just talking about the average Joe or Jane. There is not a single person who thinks that eating a Big Mac or drinking a venti-choco-double whip-extra sugar-frozen coffee concoction is good for you. People don’t eat like this because they think they are eating healthy, they eat like this because they can. It’s cheap, it’s convenient, and it’s tasty (sorta…).

It’s ignorant to think that it’s education when the evidence clearly points otherwise.

james

76

James- I partly agree. More education won’t solve it. However, while most people know a big mac isn’t good for you, most people think eggs are bad and cereal is good. They also think juice is good, or that as long as their sandwich is whole wheat they are good to go. They think flavored yogurts are good, cereal bars are ok as long as they have oatmeal in them.

People know, yet are confused at the same time.

77

[quote]jehovasfitness wrote:
James- I partly agree. More education won’t solve it. However, while most people know a big mac isn’t good for you, most people think eggs are bad and cereal is good. They also think juice is good, or that as long as their sandwich is whole wheat they are good to go. They think flavored yogurts are good, cereal bars are ok as long as they have oatmeal in them.

People know, yet are confused at the same time.[/quote]

??

Tell me, what is “bad” about juice, cereal and flavored yogurt?

Wait…so the college student playing 4 hours of football practice a day will see HARM from juice, cereal and flavored yogurt?

That is why these labels are shit. How you eat also has a lot to do with WHO is doing the eating if we discuss outcomes…meaning the food isn’t what’s “bad” in most cases.

James is right…no one thinks that double cheeseburger is “health food”…but demonizing the food itself is also a problem because there is nothing “bad” about the hamburger by itself.

You would have to change LIFESTYLE to have any real effect in this regard…which ain’t happening with after school drug commercials and billboards.

I mean, I am sure that bag o’ fries will kill that guy who just dieted down for a competition and was doing 2 hours of cardio for the past 5 weeks.

78

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]jehovasfitness wrote:
James- I partly agree. More education won’t solve it. However, while most people know a big mac isn’t good for you, most people think eggs are bad and cereal is good. They also think juice is good, or that as long as their sandwich is whole wheat they are good to go. They think flavored yogurts are good, cereal bars are ok as long as they have oatmeal in them.

People know, yet are confused at the same time.[/quote]

??

Tell me, what is “bad” about juice, cereal and flavored yogurt?

Wait…so the college student playing 4 hours of football practice a day will see HARM from juice, cereal and flavored yogurt?

That is why these labels are shit. How you eat also has a lot to do with WHO is doing the eating if we discuss outcomes…meaning the food isn’t what’s “bad” in most cases.

James is right…no one thinks that double cheeseburger is “health food”…but demonizing the food itself is also a problem because there is nothing “bad” about the hamburger by itself.

You would have to change LIFESTYLE to have any real effect in this regard…which ain’t happening with after school drug commercials and billboards.

I mean, I am sure that bag o’ fries will kill that guy who just dieted down for a competition and was doing 2 hours of cardio for the past 5 weeks.[/quote]

When you got a 250 lb female with Type 2 diabetes is looking to lose weight and that’s what she lives off of, that’s what’s wrong.

I’m not talking about some highly active individual, or someone that is a 150 that includes those foods.

Of course, I realize that probably won’t change your mind.

79

^ but why teach certain foods like the ones you listed are “bad”? You would have to work on changing lifestyle to see a long term effect…not on getting people to eat less Fruit Loops.

80

Perhaps my question for you is, would you not agree that water/green tea would be a better option for a beverage.

That a salad with meat would be a better option than a sandwich and 4 slices of deli turkey.

That plain yogurt with their own added berries would be better than flavored?