Fast Food Strikes

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
41

[quote]Zeppelin795 wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
Let me paraphrase your post, "You should listen to Hazlitt when it comes to wages and productivity because I can twist that to make it seems like he thinks the minimum wage should go up. However, you should ignore what he has to say specifically about the minimum wage because it does not agree with my stance.

As inconsistent as ever.[/quote]

I still haven’t figured out the red bouncing ball feature, too bad then maybe you could follow along.

Where is the proof that an increase in the minimum wage slows an economy? Should I just believe him cause he said so?

I never said that he believes the minimum wage should increase only that he believed that productivity should raise workers wages. His words not mine. Productivity has risen considerably but wages have stagnated or even declined. What do you think he would say about that fact?
[/quote]

Straight to insults, shocker.

42

[quote]Zeppelin795 wrote:
Also an increase in minimum wage is bad for an economy? Where are the studies, evidence that confirms this theory? Or should I just believe it cause it conforms to an ideology?

[/quote]
You should believe it because it’s basic economics.

43

[quote]Zeppelin795 wrote:
I never said that he believes the minimum wage should increase only that he believed that productivity should raise workers wages. His words not mine.
[/quote]

You implied as much.

44

The comments are hilarious, especially in the anti tea party blog.

45

[quote]Zeppelin795 wrote:
Is it your contention that all of the increase in productivity is due to technology? Increased productivity has very little to do with industriousness of the worker or more education?

Also an increase in minimum wage is bad for an economy? Where are the studies, evidence that confirms this theory? Or should I just believe it cause it conforms to an ideology?
[/quote]

No. In some cases, it may have plenty to do with either or both. In those cases, the workers being short-changed should either find work more in-line with their education, skills, and work ethics, or they should demand a raise(which will be given if their skills and work ethic are both as valuable and rare as the workers believe them to be).

Yes, a forced increase in the minimum wage is bad for an economy. It will either force some out of work altogether(most likely-see machines replacing fast food order takers) or cause the price of some goods to rise(less likely…more likely, in most situations, is the creation of replacement goods). There is no way around that.

Questions: If increasing the minimum wage actually works in favor of the working class, then shouldn’t individual workers be allowed to hurt themselves by working for a penny under that wage? No? Is it because workers are too stupid or ignorant to know what’s in their best interests? No? Does the working class need to be rescued from itself? No? If you answered “No” to either the second or third questions, then you don’t actually think a minimum wage is necessary. If you answered “Yes” to either, please tell everyone which it was.

46

We all know what Zep wants:

[quote]Zeppelin795 wrote:
If the employers do not want to do this voluntarily then they ought to be forced. And if not by the government then who?
[/quote]

47

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]Zeppelin795 wrote:
Also an increase in minimum wage is bad for an economy? Where are the studies, evidence that confirms this theory? Or should I just believe it cause it conforms to an ideology?

[/quote]
You should believe it because it’s basic economics.[/quote]

What kind of basic economics? Are we talking Marxian, Austrian or Keynesian economics?

According too keynesian Logic a raise in the minimum wage would mean a raise in low-wage earners ability to buy Things, wich in turn would lead to more Growth in Your domestic market, since the pool of customers would increase.

48

[quote]florelius wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]Zeppelin795 wrote:
Also an increase in minimum wage is bad for an economy? Where are the studies, evidence that confirms this theory? Or should I just believe it cause it conforms to an ideology?

[/quote]
You should believe it because it’s basic economics.[/quote]

What kind of basic economics? Are we talking Marxian, Austrian or Keynesian economics?

According too keynesian Logic a raise in the minimum wage would mean a raise in low-wage earners ability to buy Things, wich in turn would lead to more Growth in Your domestic market, since the pool of customers would increase.

[/quote]

I’m talking the basic economics of business not a theory in particular. If it costs $1 to make a widget and the market will only pay $1.25 for that widget. You can’t increase the cost of production above $1.25. A wage increase is an additional cost to production.

That’s just reality.

49

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
We all know what Zep wants:

[quote]Zeppelin795 wrote:
If the employers do not want to do this voluntarily then they ought to be forced. And if not by the government then who?
[/quote]

[/quote]
labor unions!

50

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]Zeppelin795 wrote:
I never said that he believes the minimum wage should increase only that he believed that productivity should raise workers wages. His words not mine.
[/quote]

You implied as much.[/quote]

I only repeated what Hazlitt said. Take it as you want to. You always do.

51

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]florelius wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]Zeppelin795 wrote:
Also an increase in minimum wage is bad for an economy? Where are the studies, evidence that confirms this theory? Or should I just believe it cause it conforms to an ideology?

[/quote]
You should believe it because it’s basic economics.[/quote]

What kind of basic economics? Are we talking Marxian, Austrian or Keynesian economics?

According too keynesian Logic a raise in the minimum wage would mean a raise in low-wage earners ability to buy Things, wich in turn would lead to more Growth in Your domestic market, since the pool of customers would increase.

[/quote]

I’m talking the basic economics of business not a theory in particular. If it costs $1 to make a widget and the market will only pay $1.25 for that widget. You can’t increase the cost of production above $1.25. A wage increase is an additional cost to production.

That’s just reality.[/quote]

If that was the case then true, but since thats not the case for the fast Food industry, Your economy will benefit from a raise. The reason Your scenario is not the case, is because the fast Food giants still will be able to generate a surplus With workers getting a hike in theire wages.

52

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]Zeppelin795 wrote:
Also an increase in minimum wage is bad for an economy? Where are the studies, evidence that confirms this theory? Or should I just believe it cause it conforms to an ideology?

[/quote]
You should believe it because it’s basic economics.[/quote]

I have little faith in theory, especially when in comes to economics and much more in evidence. Show me the evidence, not theory.

53

[quote]florelius wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]florelius wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]Zeppelin795 wrote:
Also an increase in minimum wage is bad for an economy? Where are the studies, evidence that confirms this theory? Or should I just believe it cause it conforms to an ideology?

[/quote]
You should believe it because it’s basic economics.[/quote]

What kind of basic economics? Are we talking Marxian, Austrian or Keynesian economics?

According too keynesian Logic a raise in the minimum wage would mean a raise in low-wage earners ability to buy Things, wich in turn would lead to more Growth in Your domestic market, since the pool of customers would increase.

[/quote]

I’m talking the basic economics of business not a theory in particular. If it costs $1 to make a widget and the market will only pay $1.25 for that widget. You can’t increase the cost of production above $1.25. A wage increase is an additional cost to production.

That’s just reality.[/quote]

If that was the case then true, but since thats not the case for the fast Food industry, Your economy will benefit from a raise. The reason Your scenario is not the case, is because the fast Food giants still will be able to generate a surplus With workers getting a hike in theire wages.[/quote]

Perhaps you can back this up with some data?

Fast food industries employee a lot of low skill cheap laborer’s worldwide (we can certainly limit the discussion to America) and their products are cheap. Not to mention the waterfall affect an increase to the minimum wage will have on wages in general.

The company I work for is going through this exact thing right now (because of MD’s hike over the next 3 years) and it’s not going to be cheap for us.

Edit: Also the fast food industry is only 1 industry affected by a change in the minimum wage.

54

[quote]Zeppelin795 wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]Zeppelin795 wrote:
Also an increase in minimum wage is bad for an economy? Where are the studies, evidence that confirms this theory? Or should I just believe it cause it conforms to an ideology?

[/quote]
You should believe it because it’s basic economics.[/quote]

I have little faith in theory, especially when in comes to economics and much more in evidence. Show me the evidence, not theory.[/quote]

I’m not talking about theory. I’m talking about reality.

55

[quote]NickViar wrote:

[quote]Zeppelin795 wrote:
Is it your contention that all of the increase in productivity is due to technology? Increased productivity has very little to do with industriousness of the worker or more education?

Also an increase in minimum wage is bad for an economy? Where are the studies, evidence that confirms this theory? Or should I just believe it cause it conforms to an ideology?
[/quote]

No. In some cases, it may have plenty to do with either or both. In those cases, the workers being short-changed should either find work more in-line with their education, skills, and work ethics, or they should demand a raise(which will be given if their skills and work ethic are both as valuable and rare as the workers believe them to be).

Yes, a forced increase in the minimum wage is bad for an economy. It will either force some out of work altogether(most likely-see machines replacing fast food order takers) or cause the price of some goods to rise(less likely…more likely, in most situations, is the creation of replacement goods). There is no way around that.

Questions: If increasing the minimum wage actually works in favor of the working class, then shouldn’t individual workers be allowed to hurt themselves by working for a penny under that wage? No? Is it because workers are too stupid or ignorant to know what’s in their best interests? No? Does the working class need to be rescued from itself? No? If you answered “No” to either the second or third questions, then you don’t actually think a minimum wage is necessary. If you answered “Yes” to either, please tell everyone which it was.[/quote]

And how does this work out in the real world?

Why would someone hurt themselves economically?

I refuse to answer questions that are this uninformed and where the parameters are set by an ignoramus.

The working class needs to beef up their collective bargaining and stop being dictated to by the employers. Balance out the power.

A real debate by two economists who actually do studies and look at the evidence and it’s real effects rather than just spout off half-truths to conform to an ideology.

56

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]Zeppelin795 wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]Zeppelin795 wrote:
Also an increase in minimum wage is bad for an economy? Where are the studies, evidence that confirms this theory? Or should I just believe it cause it conforms to an ideology?

[/quote]
You should believe it because it’s basic economics.[/quote]

I have little faith in theory, especially when in comes to economics and much more in evidence. Show me the evidence, not theory.[/quote]

I’m not talking about theory. I’m talking about reality. [/quote]

And how does this work out in the real world?

57

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]Zeppelin795 wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]Zeppelin795 wrote:
Also an increase in minimum wage is bad for an economy? Where are the studies, evidence that confirms this theory? Or should I just believe it cause it conforms to an ideology?

[/quote]
You should believe it because it’s basic economics.[/quote]

I have little faith in theory, especially when in comes to economics and much more in evidence. Show me the evidence, not theory.[/quote]

I’m not talking about theory. I’m talking about reality. [/quote]

Then where are the real studies and evidence?

58

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]florelius wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]florelius wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]Zeppelin795 wrote:
Also an increase in minimum wage is bad for an economy? Where are the studies, evidence that confirms this theory? Or should I just believe it cause it conforms to an ideology?

[/quote]
You should believe it because it’s basic economics.[/quote]

What kind of basic economics? Are we talking Marxian, Austrian or Keynesian economics?

According too keynesian Logic a raise in the minimum wage would mean a raise in low-wage earners ability to buy Things, wich in turn would lead to more Growth in Your domestic market, since the pool of customers would increase.

[/quote]

I’m talking the basic economics of business not a theory in particular. If it costs $1 to make a widget and the market will only pay $1.25 for that widget. You can’t increase the cost of production above $1.25. A wage increase is an additional cost to production.

That’s just reality.[/quote]

If that was the case then true, but since thats not the case for the fast Food industry, Your economy will benefit from a raise. The reason Your scenario is not the case, is because the fast Food giants still will be able to generate a surplus With workers getting a hike in theire wages.[/quote]

Perhaps you can back this up with some data?

Fast food industries employee a lot of low skill cheap laborer’s worldwide (we can certainly limit the discussion to America) and their products are cheap. Not to mention the waterfall affect an increase to the minimum wage will have on wages in general.

The company I work for is going through this exact thing right now (because of MD’s hike over the next 3 years) and it’s not going to be cheap for us.

Edit: Also the fast food industry is only 1 industry affected by a change in the minimum wage.[/quote]

The data is that McDonalds, Burger king, Fridays and other American fast Food Companys operates in my country where they have to pay their workers alot more ( roughly 20-25 dollars an hour ), A worker here who Works fulltime( 40 hours a week ) at mcDonalds can pay rent, gas, buy the Essentials like Food clothes etc, get drunk once or twice a week and so on. If they where not able to generate a profit from being here, they would not be here. From that observation I atleast Draw the conclusion that they are able to pay People a decent wage in Your country.

When it comes too other bussines that are not able too pay People a more than the current minimum wage then you have too way the positives against the negatives. If an increase in the minimum wage leads to an overall effect of improving the lifes of people stuck in low-wage employment and increasing Growth in Your domestic market, then I will say that a few bancrupt company’s is Worth the cost. As they say, you have to break some eggs to make a omelett.

59

[quote]Zeppelin795 wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]Zeppelin795 wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]Zeppelin795 wrote:
Also an increase in minimum wage is bad for an economy? Where are the studies, evidence that confirms this theory? Or should I just believe it cause it conforms to an ideology?

[/quote]
You should believe it because it’s basic economics.[/quote]

I have little faith in theory, especially when in comes to economics and much more in evidence. Show me the evidence, not theory.[/quote]

I’m not talking about theory. I’m talking about reality. [/quote]

And how does this work out in the real world?[/quote]

In the real world labor is one of the largest expenses for a company and increasing the cost of labor forces a company to do one of four things. They either increase the price of their goods/services, decrease costs somewhere else, reduce labor cost by terminating employees, or reduce their annual profit.

60

[quote]florelius wrote:
The data is that McDonalds, Burger king, Fridays and other American fast Food Companys operates in my country where they have to pay their workers alot more ( roughly 20-25 dollars an hour ), A worker here who Works fulltime( 40 hours a week ) at mcDonalds can pay rent, gas, buy the Essentials like Food clothes etc, get drunk once or twice a week and so on. If they where not able to generate a profit from being here, they would not be here. From that observation I atleast Draw the conclusion that they are able to pay People a decent wage in Your country. [/quote]

That’s not exactly data is it? How much do the products at these restaurants cost? What is your cost of living? Does the $20-$25 include benefits? What exactly is a decent wage anyway? How much support do these worker get from the government?

[quote]
When it comes too other bussines that are not able too pay People a more than the current minimum wage then you have too way the positives against the negatives. If an increase in the minimum wage leads to an overall effect of improving the lifes of people stuck in low-wage employment and increasing Growth in Your domestic market, then I will say that a few bancrupt company’s is Worth the cost. As they say, you have to break some eggs to make a omelett.[/quote]

My guess, and it is a guess (A somewhat educated one), is that the positives will not out weigh the negatives in this case. You are talking about a lot of companies across a lot of industries. We will either have an increase in those on government assistance because companies are out of business or we will have an increase in those on government assistance because even more jobs have been shipped over seas. Reducing the number of available jobs in America is not a solution to our problems.