Exercise Increases Metabolic Rates

Nutrition
24

[quote]schanz_05 wrote:

[quote]Dr. Pangloss wrote:

[quote]schanz_05 wrote:

Basically I agree with you. I think you can and should make majority of your weight loss from diet. But, you are also saying that you can lose weight from cardio. I think some people are trying to say that you won’t lose any weight from exercise, and I am just not agreeing with that.
[/quote]

Much of the research I’ve seen shows that exercise - without the benefit of calorie restriction - does not cause people to lose weight. It increases the appetite and people eat more.
[/quote]

So you’re saying if caloric intake is kept exactly the same, people will not lose weight from exercise?

Obviously if people get hungrier from exercise and increase the caloric intake they wont lose weight. But all things being equal, and they add exercise, you’re saying they wont lose weight?[/quote]

If you have 2 groups of people, group A exercises and group B does not, and both groups have access to unrestricted amounts of food, from the research I’ve read, you would not expect group A to have lost weight. Therefore, exercise can not be said to cause weight loss because of the concommitant rise in appetie.

25

[quote]Dr. Pangloss wrote:

[quote]schanz_05 wrote:

[quote]Dr. Pangloss wrote:

[quote]schanz_05 wrote:

Basically I agree with you. I think you can and should make majority of your weight loss from diet. But, you are also saying that you can lose weight from cardio. I think some people are trying to say that you won’t lose any weight from exercise, and I am just not agreeing with that.
[/quote]

Much of the research I’ve seen shows that exercise - without the benefit of calorie restriction - does not cause people to lose weight. It increases the appetite and people eat more.
[/quote]

So you’re saying if caloric intake is kept exactly the same, people will not lose weight from exercise?

Obviously if people get hungrier from exercise and increase the caloric intake they wont lose weight. But all things being equal, and they add exercise, you’re saying they wont lose weight?[/quote]

If you have 2 groups of people, group A exercises and group B does not, and both groups have access to unrestricted amounts of food, from the research I’ve read, you would not expect group A to have lost weight. Therefore, exercise can not be said to cause weight loss because of the concommitant rise in appetie.[/quote]

I agree. But what I am saying if both groups have the exact same caloric intake. One group exercises and one doesn’t. Again, both using the same caloric intake, you’re saying the exercise group wouldn’t lose more weight?

26

[quote]schanz_05 wrote:

[quote]Dr. Pangloss wrote:

[quote]schanz_05 wrote:

[quote]Dr. Pangloss wrote:

[quote]schanz_05 wrote:

Basically I agree with you. I think you can and should make majority of your weight loss from diet. But, you are also saying that you can lose weight from cardio. I think some people are trying to say that you won’t lose any weight from exercise, and I am just not agreeing with that.
[/quote]

Much of the research I’ve seen shows that exercise - without the benefit of calorie restriction - does not cause people to lose weight. It increases the appetite and people eat more.
[/quote]

So you’re saying if caloric intake is kept exactly the same, people will not lose weight from exercise?

Obviously if people get hungrier from exercise and increase the caloric intake they wont lose weight. But all things being equal, and they add exercise, you’re saying they wont lose weight?[/quote]

If you have 2 groups of people, group A exercises and group B does not, and both groups have access to unrestricted amounts of food, from the research I’ve read, you would not expect group A to have lost weight. Therefore, exercise can not be said to cause weight loss because of the concommitant rise in appetie.[/quote]

I agree. But what I am saying if both groups have the exact same caloric intake. One group exercises and one doesn’t. Again, both using the same caloric intake, you’re saying the exercise group wouldn’t lose more weight?[/quote]
Did you read the article I posted from Keifer? He’s goes on about efficiency and how the body adapts to the workload by using less calories to do the work. Short term you might experience a weight loss “fluctuation” long term the results are less than stellar!

27

[quote]Gl;itch.e wrote:

[quote]schanz_05 wrote:

[quote]Dr. Pangloss wrote:

[quote]schanz_05 wrote:

[quote]Dr. Pangloss wrote:

[quote]schanz_05 wrote:

Basically I agree with you. I think you can and should make majority of your weight loss from diet. But, you are also saying that you can lose weight from cardio. I think some people are trying to say that you won’t lose any weight from exercise, and I am just not agreeing with that.
[/quote]

Much of the research I’ve seen shows that exercise - without the benefit of calorie restriction - does not cause people to lose weight. It increases the appetite and people eat more.
[/quote]

So you’re saying if caloric intake is kept exactly the same, people will not lose weight from exercise?

Obviously if people get hungrier from exercise and increase the caloric intake they wont lose weight. But all things being equal, and they add exercise, you’re saying they wont lose weight?[/quote]

If you have 2 groups of people, group A exercises and group B does not, and both groups have access to unrestricted amounts of food, from the research I’ve read, you would not expect group A to have lost weight. Therefore, exercise can not be said to cause weight loss because of the concommitant rise in appetie.[/quote]

I agree. But what I am saying if both groups have the exact same caloric intake. One group exercises and one doesn’t. Again, both using the same caloric intake, you’re saying the exercise group wouldn’t lose more weight?[/quote]
Did you read the article I posted from Keifer? He’s goes on about efficiency and how the body adapts to the workload by using less calories to do the work. Short term you might experience a weight loss “fluctuation” long term the results are less than stellar! [/quote]

Yeah I read it. I don’t agree with it. What about marathoners? What about Olympic athletes who are eating a ridiculous amount of food just to maintain weight for their intense training, because apparently exercise doesn’t cause weight loss?

28

[quote]schanz_05 wrote:

[quote]Gl;itch.e wrote:

[quote]schanz_05 wrote:

[quote]Dr. Pangloss wrote:

[quote]schanz_05 wrote:

[quote]Dr. Pangloss wrote:

[quote]schanz_05 wrote:

Basically I agree with you. I think you can and should make majority of your weight loss from diet. But, you are also saying that you can lose weight from cardio. I think some people are trying to say that you won’t lose any weight from exercise, and I am just not agreeing with that.
[/quote]

Much of the research I’ve seen shows that exercise - without the benefit of calorie restriction - does not cause people to lose weight. It increases the appetite and people eat more.
[/quote]

So you’re saying if caloric intake is kept exactly the same, people will not lose weight from exercise?

Obviously if people get hungrier from exercise and increase the caloric intake they wont lose weight. But all things being equal, and they add exercise, you’re saying they wont lose weight?[/quote]

If you have 2 groups of people, group A exercises and group B does not, and both groups have access to unrestricted amounts of food, from the research I’ve read, you would not expect group A to have lost weight. Therefore, exercise can not be said to cause weight loss because of the concommitant rise in appetie.[/quote]

I agree. But what I am saying if both groups have the exact same caloric intake. One group exercises and one doesn’t. Again, both using the same caloric intake, you’re saying the exercise group wouldn’t lose more weight?[/quote]
Did you read the article I posted from Keifer? He’s goes on about efficiency and how the body adapts to the workload by using less calories to do the work. Short term you might experience a weight loss “fluctuation” long term the results are less than stellar! [/quote]

Yeah I read it. I don’t agree with it. What about marathoners? What about Olympic athletes who are eating a ridiculous amount of food just to maintain weight for their intense training, because apparently exercise doesn’t cause weight loss?
[/quote]
Youve just mentioned food which changes the equation. Thats the true controlling factor.

How do Olympic athletes and Marathon runners apply to you? As far as Marathon runners go, do you wish to exercise for hours and hours in order to primarily lose muscle mass and set your body up for efficient fat storage? Neither of these examples are looking for weight loss either. They are competing at bodyweights that benefit their sport.

29

I dont agree with the article in that yes the body becomes more efficient but it does the same thing when calories are restricted. It becomes more efficient with less calories. Same as adding exercise.

30

[quote]Gl;itch.e wrote:

[quote]schanz_05 wrote:

[quote]Gl;itch.e wrote:

[quote]schanz_05 wrote:

[quote]Dr. Pangloss wrote:

[quote]schanz_05 wrote:

[quote]Dr. Pangloss wrote:

[quote]schanz_05 wrote:

Basically I agree with you. I think you can and should make majority of your weight loss from diet. But, you are also saying that you can lose weight from cardio. I think some people are trying to say that you won’t lose any weight from exercise, and I am just not agreeing with that.
[/quote]

Much of the research I’ve seen shows that exercise - without the benefit of calorie restriction - does not cause people to lose weight. It increases the appetite and people eat more.
[/quote]

So you’re saying if caloric intake is kept exactly the same, people will not lose weight from exercise?

Obviously if people get hungrier from exercise and increase the caloric intake they wont lose weight. But all things being equal, and they add exercise, you’re saying they wont lose weight?[/quote]

If you have 2 groups of people, group A exercises and group B does not, and both groups have access to unrestricted amounts of food, from the research I’ve read, you would not expect group A to have lost weight. Therefore, exercise can not be said to cause weight loss because of the concommitant rise in appetie.[/quote]

I agree. But what I am saying if both groups have the exact same caloric intake. One group exercises and one doesn’t. Again, both using the same caloric intake, you’re saying the exercise group wouldn’t lose more weight?[/quote]
Did you read the article I posted from Keifer? He’s goes on about efficiency and how the body adapts to the workload by using less calories to do the work. Short term you might experience a weight loss “fluctuation” long term the results are less than stellar! [/quote]

Yeah I read it. I don’t agree with it. What about marathoners? What about Olympic athletes who are eating a ridiculous amount of food just to maintain weight for their intense training, because apparently exercise doesn’t cause weight loss?
[/quote]
Youve just mentioned food which changes the equation. Thats the true controlling factor.

How do Olympic athletes and Marathon runners apply to you? As far as Marathon runners go, do you wish to exercise for hours and hours in order to primarily lose muscle mass and set your body up for efficient fat storage? Neither of these examples are looking for weight loss either. They are competing at bodyweights that benefit their sport. [/quote]

Look all I am trying to get across is that exercise CAN cause you to lose weight, now what you or I think is optimal for weight loss regarding exercise, diet, and an individual’s particular goals is a different discussion. But saying that exercise won’t cause you to lose weight period, just isn’t right.

31

[quote]Gl;itch.e wrote:

[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:I pretty much disagree with your stance here. I bieleve it’s what we do when we’re NOT in the gym, that contributes most to our metabolism and fat-burning.

BBB[/quote]
I dont think the good doctor would disagree with that though. He is saying after all that the organs and their processes account for the largest caloric drain. So technically you are correct in saying this. Its the organ and system as a whole trying to get back to homestatis after a workout where the calories are used. I dont find any of this to be new information. I labour under the premise that I workout to build and maintain muscle and eat a caloric deficit to lose fat. The idea of exercising to lose weight never made much sense to me.

maybe this article from John Keifer will help with this discussion

http://articles.elitefts.com/articles/training-articles/logic-does-not-apply-iv-exercise-for-weight-loss/[/quote]
Just read the link - thank you for that!!

However, does that mean that sprinting WILL NOT help with fat loss in any way?

32

[quote]schanz_05 wrote:

Look all I am trying to get across is that exercise CAN cause you to lose weight, now what you or I think is optimal for weight loss regarding exercise, diet, and an individual’s particular goals is a different discussion. But saying that exercise won’t cause you to lose weight period, just isn’t right.[/quote]

I understand what you’re saying, but it’s not accurate. Increased activity causes an increase in appetite. Therefore, exercise only causes weight loss when paired with calorie restriction. You seem hesitant to fully embrace the last part of that sentence, yet it’s necessary for the statement to be true.

It’s a difficult concept to get your head around especially since so many people think that if the overweight and obese would just get off their lazy asses and exercise, they would lose weight. But, they don’t. Or at least, not without restricting calories at the same time.

33

Well actually it depends on how you are defining restriction. If by you mean not eating what ever the hell you feel like then there are people that gain will in calorie restriction ie myself. If i did not restrict my calories i would be fat as hell. I can eat way more than i need to gain at a good rate.

But for loss if you eat at maintenance for a few weeks then increase activity with no decrease in calories you will lose weight. If that is calorie restriction then yes you cannot lose without calorie restriction. I know personally i will always add activity and eat the same amount of food before i start cutting calories further. I want to eat as much as i can while i lose fat.

34

[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:
Well actually it depends on how you are defining restriction. If by you mean not eating what ever the hell you feel like then there are people that gain will in calorie restriction ie myself. If i did not restrict my calories i would be fat as hell. I can eat way more than i need to gain at a good rate.
[/quote]

Take a moment to consider what you just wrote. If this is true (that without consciously restricting your calories, you would be fat as hell), then there is something that is not functioning properly between your hunger (or more accurately, your satiety) and your metabolism. This is not considered ideal. Perhaps your not as carb tolerant as you seem to think…

35

[quote]Dr. Pangloss wrote:

If you have 2 groups of people, group A exercises and group B does not, and both groups have access to unrestricted amounts of food, from the research I’ve read, you would not expect group A to have lost weight. Therefore, exercise can not be said to cause weight loss because of the concommitant rise in appetie.[/quote]

Interesting. But if group A eats an amount over baseline to “cover” the increased expenditure, would that not (theoretically) be directed toward muscle gain, assuming the proper/intelligent weight training stimulus was applied (what most on this site would consider traditional strength training)? If less power based training, more conditioning based approach was taken, then wouldn’t that theoretically lead to increased insulin sensitivity of muscle fibers, over time (many weeks/months – outside the scope of most studies) lead to less accumulation of body fat due to better natural nutrient partitioning?

36

Never said i was ideal did I. I am an annomily. I have plenty of problems that i have documented on this site. I dont get full. I have said this before in threads. That mechanism is not pressent in my body. I know this and i control for this. What do you mean not as carb tolerant? I still eat 400-600g of carbs on a daily basis. I am not fat. I have actually gotten a bit leaner recently and i have decreased activity from my peak. So i am carb intolerant?

37

[quote]Dr. Pangloss wrote:

[quote]schanz_05 wrote:

Look all I am trying to get across is that exercise CAN cause you to lose weight, now what you or I think is optimal for weight loss regarding exercise, diet, and an individual’s particular goals is a different discussion. But saying that exercise won’t cause you to lose weight period, just isn’t right.[/quote]

Therefore, exercise only causes weight loss when paired with calorie restriction. You seem hesitant to fully embrace the last part of that sentence, yet it’s necessary for the statement to be true.
[/quote]

You wouldn’t need calorie restriction. You just need to be eating the same amount of calories as when you weren’t working out. You would lose weight then. But, you’re going to say that the exercise is going to cause an increase in appetite, so you would essentially be restricting calories if you kept them the same as prior to starting to workout. It is a circular argument in which we are just arguing semantics at this point.

38

[quote]BulletproofTiger wrote:

[quote]Dr. Pangloss wrote:

If you have 2 groups of people, group A exercises and group B does not, and both groups have access to unrestricted amounts of food, from the research I’ve read, you would not expect group A to have lost weight. Therefore, exercise can not be said to cause weight loss because of the concommitant rise in appetie.[/quote]

Interesting. But if group A eats an amount over baseline to “cover” the increased expenditure, would that not (theoretically) be directed toward muscle gain, assuming the proper/intelligent weight training stimulus was applied (what most on this site would consider traditional strength training)? If less power based training, more conditioning based approach was taken, then wouldn’t that theoretically lead to increased insulin sensitivity of muscle fibers, over time (many weeks/months – outside the scope of most studies) lead to less accumulation of body fat due to better natural nutrient partitioning?[/quote]

Yes, I don’t think anyone would disagree with you there. We are arguing strictly weight loss here.

39

[quote]Dr. Pangloss wrote:

[quote]schanz_05 wrote:

Look all I am trying to get across is that exercise CAN cause you to lose weight, now what you or I think is optimal for weight loss regarding exercise, diet, and an individual’s particular goals is a different discussion. But saying that exercise won’t cause you to lose weight period, just isn’t right.[/quote]

I understand what you’re saying, but it’s not accurate. Increased activity causes an increase in appetite. Therefore, exercise only causes weight loss when paired with calorie restriction. You seem hesitant to fully embrace the last part of that sentence, yet it’s necessary for the statement to be true.

It’s a difficult concept to get your head around especially since so many people think that if the overweight and obese would just get off their lazy asses and exercise, they would lose weight. But, they don’t. Or at least, not without restricting calories at the same time.[/quote]

I agree with your point about increased appetite caused by exercise but don’t agree with the conclusion. I think largely over semantic differences over ‘caloric restriction’. If calories are uncontrolled then there are two variables involved, exercise level and calorie intake. For a cause/effect relationship to be observed, there needs to be only one variable, ie calories must be maintained.

Inverting the argument you present, one can say that an increase in calorie intake does not cause weight gain, assuming that exercise level is unaccounted for and hence increased along with calories.

40

[quote]schanz_05 wrote:

You wouldn’t need calorie restriction. You just need to be eating the same amount of calories as when you weren’t working out. You would lose weight then. But, you’re going to say that the exercise is going to cause an increase in appetite, so you would essentially be restricting calories if you kept them the same as prior to starting to workout. It is a circular argument in which we are just arguing semantics at this point.

[/quote]

Exactly what i was trying to point out but i like your wording much better.