Excessive or Well Deserved?

Off Topic
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[quote]four60 wrote:
^ OK this raises a question. At what point are you no longer defending “WALMART” goods and are defending your life?

I must admit the way he explains it…It sounds like they did something against company policy. He story kinds of changes from the start to the end. The policy is set up to protect the company. He and the crew did a good thing sorry it cost them a job.

The Mcdonalds kid was not protecting anything but his azz. If it was not for his friends trying to stop him and the lady screaming I bet he would still have a job. [/quote]

Yep…and that lady screaming was the worse thing happening in my opinion.

I am not really bothered by attacking heifers getting beat.

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[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:

He has no case against McDonald’s. NY is an “at-will employment” state which generally means they can fire you with or without cause, as you can quit whenever you like as well. The usual exceptions to the rule are discrimination. They don’t have a duty to train him for self-defense, security or any other such occupation. They could fire him solely on the basis of his verbal jousting with the customer, arguing he inflamed the situation. She said something about his mother, and he returned the insult. THAT alone can get you fired. Forget what followed. They may not have known he was a felon. He may have lied on his application. We simply do not know.

There IS an interesting angle that he was a victim of violence on the job and that McDonald’s failed to provide adequate security but there are problems with that angle. One, he didn’t get injured so no damages. His arrest is self-inflicted so no recovery there unless he is 100% exonerated of any wrongdoing. And, McDonald’s may have no obligation whatsoever to provide security unless the nature of the crime is foreseeable and there has been a sufficient pattern and past of such crime at the location. I don’t think this place was a “high crime” area. The duty to provide security is a very technical one.

The issues are pretty simple, yet complex. And I’m just spitballing here as I lie here…I’m not really quarterbacking this thing fully.[/quote]

The only chance he would have suing them would be for placing him in harms way with no protection. Especially considering their was no security. He could also suite them for assault while on the job.

In our city and suburban MCd’s and BK’s they have security.

But I also don’t know NYC self defense laws, we have an extension of castle doctrine with now duty to flee. And the right to use lethal force if threatened. Two people both bigger than you would definitely justify the use of lethal force in self defense here.

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[quote]four60 wrote:
^ OK this raises a question. At what point are you no longer defending “WALMART” goods and are defending your life?
[/quote]
If you have to ask than you are not worthy to work at Wallmart. It is an honor to die in the store. You will be greeted in death by Valkeries, very old valkeries. They will say “hello” and then hand you a shopping cart. Daily specials will be stacked conveniently to your side. If you don’t want to walk a rascal will be provided for you.

Well the whole “use reasonable force” but always “disengage” from a gun does create circumstance where you may find yourself backing up to a comfortable shooting range. I guess turning around and crouching to minimize blood spatter on the re-usable smocks would also be advised.

In seriousness, “loss prevention” at a Wallmart sounds like an awful job with contradictory rules. It is not alone in that.

[quote]
The Mcdonalds kid was not protecting anything but his azz. If it was not for his friends trying to stop him and the lady screaming I bet he would still have a job. [/quote]
I agree about protecting himself, but as TheBodyGuard pointed out there may have been other valid reasons to fire him. Did he lie about his previous conviction on his application? Did he have a history of being verbally antagonistic with customers? Things like that. His co-workers and the screaming lady helped him back into a cell more than the unemployment line in my opinion.

Regards,

Robert A

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In the long run, all this will lead to is more people acting just like the guy holding the camera…not doing shit for fear of ending up in jail for it.

Some of the same people here who act like they would track someone down and kill them if their child were ever hurt are the main ones in this thread acting like this man should be in jail for protecting himself.

When that video was posted years back about that Pizza Place incident, everyone jumped in about how they wouldn’t stand there and do nothing.

We now that was all bullshit.

Most here would run away or stand still and watch.

That much is clear.

The armchair quarterbacking in this thread is a tad much.

A jury does not just follow facts. They also base their opinion just by how things appear THAT DAY in court.

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[quote]Robert A wrote:

[quote]four60 wrote:
^ OK this raises a question. At what point are you no longer defending “WALMART” goods and are defending your life?
[/quote]
If you have to ask than you are not worthy to work at Wallmart. It is an honor to die in the store. You will be greeted in death by Valkeries, very old valkeries. They will say “hello” and then hand you a shopping cart. Daily specials will be stacked conveniently to your side. If you don’t want to walk a rascal will be provided for you.

Well the whole “use reasonable force” but always “disengage” from a gun does create circumstance where you may find yourself backing up to a comfortable shooting range. I guess turning around and crouching to minimize blood spatter on the re-usable smocks would also be advised.

In seriousness, “loss prevention” at a Wallmart sounds like an awful job with contradictory rules. It is not alone in that.

[quote]
The Mcdonalds kid was not protecting anything but his azz. If it was not for his friends trying to stop him and the lady screaming I bet he would still have a job. [/quote]
I agree about protecting himself, but as TheBodyGuard pointed out there may have been other valid reasons to fire him. Did he lie about his previous conviction on his application? Did he have a history of being verbally antagonistic with customers? Things like that. His co-workers and the screaming lady helped him back into a cell more than the unemployment line in my opinion.

Regards,

Robert A[/quote]

F*ck you for making me laugh at that first statement.

But I will agree. The screaming woman and his friends trying to calm him down closed the cell on him more than the beating. The beating although on vid is bad can be explained with room for doudt in his favor, but when you put it all together its like the story of JAWS the shark was not that scary so they added stuff to make it worse.

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[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]four60 wrote:
^ OK this raises a question. At what point are you no longer defending “WALMART” goods and are defending your life?

I must admit the way he explains it…It sounds like they did something against company policy. He story kinds of changes from the start to the end. The policy is set up to protect the company. He and the crew did a good thing sorry it cost them a job.

The Mcdonalds kid was not protecting anything but his azz. If it was not for his friends trying to stop him and the lady screaming I bet he would still have a job. [/quote]

Yep…and that lady screaming was the worse thing happening in my opinion.

I am not really bothered by attacking heifers getting beat.[/quote]

And this is why he needs a good lawyer. The women had no issue or at least not on camera of 2 people being brave enough to jump over a counter and come at a guy they don’t know in a area that has HOT oil and cooking tools. But went ape shit when the guy protects himself NOW its cop calling time.

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I thought that only employees were allowed behind the counter.

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[quote]Chushin wrote:
I’m a bit intrigued by this claim that a metal rod is “a deadly weapon, just like a gun.”

Are they really viewed more or less equally in the eyes of the law? I find that very hard to believe.

And what object is NOT a deadly weapon, then? A flashlight? A glass ashtray? Hell, how about a pencil?[/quote]

I always thought frozen armadillos would be exempt from “deadly weapon status”, but you just can never tell…

Woman allegedly beaten with frozen armadillo
http://blog.chron.com/newswatch/2011/10/woman-allegedly-beaten-with-frozen-armadillo/

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[quote]Professor X wrote:
In the long run, all this will lead to is more people acting just like the guy holding the camera…not doing shit for fear of ending up in jail for it.

Some of the same people here who act like they would track someone down and kill them if their child were ever hurt are the main ones in this thread acting like this man should be in jail for protecting himself.

When that video was posted years back about that Pizza Place incident, everyone jumped in about how they wouldn’t stand there and do nothing.

We now that was all bullshit.

Most here would run away or stand still and watch.

That much is clear.

The armchair quarterbacking in this thread is a tad much.

A jury does not just follow facts. They also base their opinion just by how things appear THAT DAY in court.[/quote]

Since you’re so passive/aggressive, I’m going to hop right in here and reply.

What we do know about you, and not “some people”, is that you have not been party to many, if any, violent encounters. That means you’re probably the “some people” that actually wouldn’t do anything but stand there. But please, by all means, please take out your cell phone camera b/c we do enjoy these videos.

Yes, I would exact revenge on anyone that harmed my child. Perhaps you do not understand the small distinction between a willingness to go to jail for your family, and the willingness to do it for a stranger. I’m ignoring for a moment that the whole comparison is fallacious and only meant to attack people here that don’t share your opinion; you can be willing to exact revenge in the name of your family/child and STILL intervene in a “reasonable” manner when the situation calls for it, like at the pizza place.

As for juries, I thought you were a doctor of the teeth? So do you really work on teeth, or do you sit in the courtroom all day? Or, do you know what you hear on TV? I’m curious. I can tell you from experience, that juries try to follow instructions and do the right thing except under EXTRAORDINARY circumstances. This is NOT extraordinary.

So, for the record, hurt my child and you better leave the country. If I can help someone defenseless, I will but I won’t go bat shit crazy and go to jail for it. The required physical response to the big fat motherfucker in the pizza vid and the two unarmed dykes on the ground are different, but you’ve proven over and over you can’t “get that” part of the algebra. I think the cashier should go to jail. So does the prosecutor’s office, and I bet a jury will too. And now we know beyond any doubt that you have no experience with violence. That means we know more about what you would do, than you know what “some of us” would do :slight_smile:

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Interesting people are rallying behind Rayon McIntosh

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[quote]kevinm1 wrote:
Interesting people are rallying behind Rayon McIntosh

It’s natural to feel sympathy for this guy at a base level. But if you move beyond your base emotions, you also understand that he crossed a line. It’s also natural to have no sympathy for the two women. But once you again remove emotion, you understand the resulting injures suffered to them was inequitable and unjust.

There should have been a grand jury by now. We’ll see…

556

[quote]kevinm1 wrote:
Interesting people are rallying behind Rayon McIntosh

I did not know it at the time but I think this is the McD’s at West 4th street on the “A” line in the villiage. The area is not bad.

You have bars and NYU is right around the corner. But that Mcdonalds use to have police around all the time. Not sure why they stop. Its funny its across from a small basketball court.

Famous people would show up an play at that court even some pros. You would always see a crowd gather like it was a pro game.

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[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:

Since you’re so passive/aggressive, I’m going to hop right in here and reply.

What we do know about you, and not “some people”, is that you have not been party to many, if any, violent encounters.

[/quote]

LOL. I’ve been shot at once for my sneakers. I have been in fights before but the last one was freshman year of college. That was the last time anyone stepped me that way.

That means you are wrong here. I am sure the rest of the post is filled with more bad assumptions. I am assuming this of course…but I am better at it than you.

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I have little to no moral issue with someone dishing out a lil retribution in these kind of circumstances.

Legally speaking of course…the guy is fucked!!!

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[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:

Since you’re so passive/aggressive, I’m going to hop right in here and reply.

What we do know about you, and not “some people”, is that you have not been party to many, if any, violent encounters.

[/quote]

LOL. I’ve been shot at once for my sneakers. I have been in fights before but the last one was freshman year of college. That was the last time anyone stepped me that way.

That means you are wrong here. I am sure the rest of the post is filled with more bad assumptions. I am assuming this of course…but I am better at it than you.

[/quote]

lol you admire the one that got shot I admire the shooter. you didn’t even get shot. stop it. please stop. I know 16 year olds that will step to you and put a shell in your hat. smh. just stop.

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[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:

Since you’re so passive/aggressive, I’m going to hop right in here and reply.

What we do know about you, and not “some people”, is that you have not been party to many, if any, violent encounters.

[/quote]

LOL. I’ve been shot at once for my sneakers. I have been in fights before but the last one was freshman year of college. That was the last time anyone stepped me that way.

That means you are wrong here. I am sure the rest of the post is filled with more bad assumptions. I am assuming this of course…but I am better at it than you.

[/quote]

lol you admire the one that got shot I admire the shooter. you didn’t even get shot. stop it. please stop. I know 16 year olds that will step to you and put a shell in your hat. smh. just stop.
[/quote]

? I didn’t say I got shot and hope to never get shot. You made some wild assumption about me never being in a life threatening situation. You are simply wrong. Instead of admit that though, just keep pretending that I glorify getting shot or that getting shot has shit to do with the misjudgment you made.

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[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:

Since you’re so passive/aggressive, I’m going to hop right in here and reply.

What we do know about you, and not “some people”, is that you have not been party to many, if any, violent encounters.

[/quote]

LOL. I’ve been shot at once for my sneakers. I have been in fights before but the last one was freshman year of college. That was the last time anyone stepped me that way.

That means you are wrong here. I am sure the rest of the post is filled with more bad assumptions. I am assuming this of course…but I am better at it than you.

[/quote]

lol you admire the one that got shot I admire the shooter. you didn’t even get shot. stop it. please stop. I know 16 year olds that will step to you and put a shell in your hat. smh. just stop.
[/quote]

? I didn’t say I got shot and hope to never get shot. You made some wild assumption about me never being in a life threatening situation. You are simply wrong. Instead of admit that though, just keep pretending that I glorify getting shot or that getting shot has shit to do with the misjudgment you made.[/quote]

I didn’t make a misjudgement. I don’t think you’re acquainted with violence on a regular basis (I did say “party to many”) and your retort, notwithstanding the two anecdotal reports of violence, don’t rise to a level to refute my “judgement” even if we accept your claims at face value (except if you’re shooting to refute “any”).

Can’t believe I’ve had a 10 page debate with so called men about whether hitting two down unarmed women was excessive or not.

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I think men have the right (all people) to defend themselves. Sometimes like the aforementioned post, we don’t know the state of mind that people are in and the one you attack might feel as if they were going to die and fear sets in and they get a bit extreme because they might feel that its me or them.

Me personally, I hope I never get in a fight because I’m afraid that I would actually kill a person, not even aware of what I was doing.

563

[quote]simpstr1 wrote:
I think men have the right (all people) to defend themselves. Sometimes like the aforementioned post, we don’t know the state of mind that people are in and the one you attack might feel as if they were going to die and fear sets in and they get a bit extreme because they might feel that its me or them.

Me personally, I hope I never get in a fight because I’m afraid that I would actually kill a person, not even aware of what I was doing.

[/quote]

So when is the last time you hopped a counter miss?

:slight_smile: