European Who Loves America

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
141

[quote]thethirdruffian wrote:

[quote]YamatoDamashii92 wrote:
I am a European who loves America and has feeling of patriotism or support for it, especially the foundation it is built upon, a constitutional republic, true free speech, a free market (I know some people don’t think it is I am hardly qualified to take that point up)

My country has a monarchy and like most of Europe is a nanny state with restrictions and general limitations on freedom comparative to the U.S. Nothing oppressive or dictatorial, we have elections etc and freedoms.
I have for the last few years identified with the U.S, ideologically, economically and hate the elitist nonsense Europeans generally spout about America.

I was wondering how Americans feel about European immigration to the U.S and how they feel someone should earn the right to become a citizen. Me and my girlfriend both have similar desires to live in the states despite being financially lacking at this current moment, when we have decent income and skills we hope to move and I was wondering what Americans feel like about this.

[/quote]

Show up and have your GF give birth here. Kid’s a citizen and can act as an anchor baby. It’s apparently what everyone does.
[/quote]

Haha no if I ever come I would want to earn it. I would also like to join the military. My girlfriend has family in Canada so I could always go there first and go across once I am financially secure. so maybe a Canadian baby is in the works but I can go there anyway and it isn’t much different to Europe.

Also to all the Americans foaming at the mouth about my European pinko commie ways, if I come to America I am obviously buying health insurance and going about your rules. I am merely asking questions about healthcare. In some of the books I have read on the constitution and other works by founders like Paine for example, he argues in favour of universal healthcare. I am interested in the debate.

Thta does not mean I think government healthcare should be forced upon you and I understand if I want to live in America I shouldn’t want it to be. That however does not stop me from being interested in it and debating it. I only have a rudementary grasp of the constitution and am still studying and reading. So please take it easy and understand that rather than being completely aggro.

Also any recommendations for reading material would be good. My current books I am reading through are:

The Penguin guide to the United States constitution : A fully annotated decleration of independence, u.s constitution and amendments, and selections from the federalist papers

Christopher Hitchens Thomas Paine’s rights of man

Rights of man by T.P
Common sense by T.P
Other t.p writings on agrarian justice, writings to Jefferson etc

I am also waiting on a book about jefferson, a book about the pre states history of the continent and some other books about the story of the founding and founding members.

143

[quote]Chushin wrote:

[quote]YamatoDamashii92 wrote:

[quote]Varqanir wrote:

[quote]Chushin wrote:
Can I ask how many black members of parliament there are in your country now? Historically?[/quote]

There have been 16 black (as in, of African heritage) members of Parliament, from Guyana, Jamaica, Nigeria, Kenya, Uganda, Somalia and Ghana.

There have additionally been 25 members of the House of Lords of African ancestry.

They are, as you might imagine, vastly outnumbered by the number of MPs and Lords of Indian, Pakistani, and Sri Lankan ancestry.

By contrast, there have been one hundred thirty-two black members of the House of Representatives since 1870 until today, but only nine black US senators. Including our current president.

Considering that the United Kingdom is 81.9% white (compared to 62.6% in the United States), I’d say the British don’t do too poorly by comparison.

Do you think a black man will soon be Prime Minister, Secretary of Foreign Affairs, or head of the military of ANY Western European country?

[/quote]

Add to that when we abolished slavery, that we didn’t have segregation, that in black areas almost all council seats are made up of black people, as are mayors etc.
Also we had a woman PM, that does not mean Americans are more sexist, this is juvenile.[/quote]

Are you always this ignorant about the US, or is it just on the Internet?
[/quote]

How is what I said ignorant? England ended slavery before the U.S. we didn’t have segregation. We have had a woman PM, you have not. I was merely countering your ignorance in regards to racism in England and Europe comparative to the U.S.

144

[quote]YamatoDamashii92 wrote:

Also any recommendations for reading material would be good. My current books I am reading through are:

The Penguin guide to the United States constitution : A fully annotated decleration of independence, u.s constitution and amendments, and selections from the federalist papers

Christopher Hitchens Thomas Paine’s rights of man

Rights of man by T.P
Common sense by T.P
Other t.p writings on agrarian justice, writings to Jefferson etc

I am also waiting on a book about jefferson, a book about the pre states history of the continent and some other books about the story of the founding and founding members.[/quote]

I find it hard to believe that you haven’t read Hitchens’ biography of Thomas Jefferson.

146

[quote]Chushin wrote:

[quote]YamatoDamashii92 wrote:

[quote]Chushin wrote:

[quote]YamatoDamashii92 wrote:

[quote]Varqanir wrote:

[quote]Chushin wrote:
Can I ask how many black members of parliament there are in your country now? Historically?[/quote]

There have been 16 black (as in, of African heritage) members of Parliament, from Guyana, Jamaica, Nigeria, Kenya, Uganda, Somalia and Ghana.

There have additionally been 25 members of the House of Lords of African ancestry.

They are, as you might imagine, vastly outnumbered by the number of MPs and Lords of Indian, Pakistani, and Sri Lankan ancestry.

By contrast, there have been one hundred thirty-two black members of the House of Representatives since 1870 until today, but only nine black US senators. Including our current president.

Considering that the United Kingdom is 81.9% white (compared to 62.6% in the United States), I’d say the British don’t do too poorly by comparison.

Do you think a black man will soon be Prime Minister, Secretary of Foreign Affairs, or head of the military of ANY Western European country?

[/quote]

Add to that when we abolished slavery, that we didn’t have segregation, that in black areas almost all council seats are made up of black people, as are mayors etc.
Also we had a woman PM, that does not mean Americans are more sexist, this is juvenile.[/quote]

Are you always this ignorant about the US, or is it just on the Internet?
[/quote]

How is what I said ignorant? England ended slavery before the U.S. we didn’t have segregation. We have had a woman PM, you have not. I was merely countering your ignorance in regards to racism in England and Europe comparative to the U.S.
[/quote]

  1. Segregation happened in a minority of states in a country of 50. Quit acting like it was the rule rather than the exception.

  2. Any idiot would know that blacks hold local office int the US as well where they are a majority. That hardly makes you “enlightened.” And BTW, NY has had a black mayor, as have other non-black majority areas. Tell me about London.

I established a pattern of minimal political power for blacks at the national level. Your “female PM” example is hardly a pattern. It means nothing.

I get tired of people like you denying racism in your own backyard, but pointing at others. And we haven’t mentioned your oppressive classism…
[/quote]

I don’t deny racism, I merely state we are racist in a different way. We generally have rampant anti muslim anti eastern european racism. You are simply angry I dare say England has less anti black racism, which it clearly does. We however have rampant bigotry and racism against the following people:

Pakistani’s
Muslims
Poles
Romanians
Gypsy’s

In the 70’s we had black skinhead members go on “curry raids” with white skinheads and beat them up and evict them from their houses. Black racism has not been prevalent for decades.
The real racism in the UK is based primarily on immigration. The Muslims, Pakistani’s, eastern Europeans are and have been coming en masse and that means our racism is generally targeted at them. Not blacks.

The dynamic of racism is different everywhere. Trying to fit the American style racism to England is silly. Both are just as bad as one another, but they are different in nature.

147

[quote]Varqanir wrote:

[quote]YamatoDamashii92 wrote:

Also any recommendations for reading material would be good. My current books I am reading through are:

The Penguin guide to the United States constitution : A fully annotated decleration of independence, u.s constitution and amendments, and selections from the federalist papers

Christopher Hitchens Thomas Paine’s rights of man

Rights of man by T.P
Common sense by T.P
Other t.p writings on agrarian justice, writings to Jefferson etc

I am also waiting on a book about jefferson, a book about the pre states history of the continent and some other books about the story of the founding and founding members.[/quote]

I find it hard to believe that you haven’t read Hitchens’ biography of Thomas Jefferson.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Thomas-Jefferson-Author-America-Eminent/dp/0060837063[/quote]

It is on the way via the amazon warehouse :slight_smile:

148

[quote]YamatoDamashii92 wrote:
How do regular people in a 9-5 pay for healthcare?

[/quote]

By working, like everyone else who earns things.

We don’t have to fork over ridiculous sums of our earnings to the government (compared to this shit hole, socialist, welfare states of Europe.) So we have this thing called disposable income and lower costs of living.

149

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]YamatoDamashii92 wrote:
How do regular people in a 9-5 pay for healthcare?

[/quote]

By working, like everyone else who earns things.

We don’t have to fork over ridiculous sums of our earnings to the government (compared to this shit hole, socialist, welfare states of Europe.) So we have this thing called disposable income and lower costs of living. [/quote]

Apart from the 45 million Americans who must not work hard?

150

[quote]YamatoDamashii92 wrote:

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]YamatoDamashii92 wrote:
How do regular people in a 9-5 pay for healthcare?

[/quote]

By working, like everyone else who earns things.

We don’t have to fork over ridiculous sums of our earnings to the government (compared to this shit hole, socialist, welfare states of Europe.) So we have this thing called disposable income and lower costs of living. [/quote]

Apart from the 45 million Americans who must not work hard?[/quote]

What?

151

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]smh_23 wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:

Just a hunch (and I have excellent hunches if I do say so myself) but I’d bet a boatload of French wine, German beer and British chips that a creationist lawmaker would be one of your very best allies when it comes to protecting individual liberty as compared to the alternatives.
[/quote]

Likely, yes, provided that he isn’t a Rick Santorum type.

I meant only what you would undoubtedly mean if you said that you weren’t a big fan of atheist lawmakers. It doesn’t mean that they are useless or wrong about everything; it’s just, you’d rather the same person not be an atheist. Or so I suspect.[/quote]

I only meant that I think you’d take a guy who believes in inalienable, natural rights – which imperatively necessitates a Creator – over one who philosophizes that a collective, or a man, “grants” them. The latter is an inherently dangerous perspective.

I don’t take you as a guy interested in espousing dangerous perspectives. You’re much more reasonable than that and…yes, some of that is patronizing and some of it is True.[/quote]

Sure, though I can live with someone who believes in natural rights and also believes himself an atheist in the pure and literal sense of the term. Make no mistake, there are many, many such people (including, I would venture to guess, the vast majority of physicalist atheists). And while you and I believe these people to be philosophically confused, they can still satisfy all of the moral requirements I demand of politicians I support.

However, the term “creationist” has various possible meanings. Taken literally, I’m kind of a creationist, because I believe that there’s at least a 50.1 percent chance that the material from which I’m made would not exist without its having been created by some non-physical being or essence I’ll call god.

152

[quote]Chushin wrote:

[quote]Varqanir wrote:

Do you think a black man will soon be Prime Minister, Secretary of Foreign Affairs, or head of the military of ANY Western European country?

[/quote]

Thanks for making my point.

We’ve had a black president, 2 black secretaries of state (one a woman!) and a black chairman of the joint chiefs.

But we’re the ones who are racist?[/quote]

Out of curiosity, how would you rate the performance records of the aforementioned THREE people in their respective official capacities?

154

[quote]Chushin wrote:

[quote]Varqanir wrote:

[quote]Chushin wrote:

[quote]Varqanir wrote:

Do you think a black man will soon be Prime Minister, Secretary of Foreign Affairs, or head of the military of ANY Western European country?

[/quote]

Thanks for making my point.

We’ve had a black president, 2 black secretaries of state (one a woman!) and a black chairman of the joint chiefs.

But we’re the ones who are racist?[/quote]

Out of curiosity, how would you rate the performance records of the aforementioned THREE people in their respective official capacities?
[/quote]

Oh man, I don’t know.

I feel too far removed, both geographically and chronologically, to offer any sort of meaningful opinion on that.

Plus, I’m on the Shinkansen heading for the Kyoto Enbu Taikai; don’t bring me down!

But I’m sure you have, as always, an interesting point. What is it?
[/quote]

That you should consider Seppuku immediately.

155

[quote]YamatoDamashii92 wrote:

[quote]Chushin wrote:

[quote]Varqanir wrote:

[quote]Chushin wrote:

[quote]Varqanir wrote:

Do you think a black man will soon be Prime Minister, Secretary of Foreign Affairs, or head of the military of ANY Western European country?

[/quote]

Thanks for making my point.

We’ve had a black president, 2 black secretaries of state (one a woman!) and a black chairman of the joint chiefs.

But we’re the ones who are racist?[/quote]

Out of curiosity, how would you rate the performance records of the aforementioned THREE people in their respective official capacities?
[/quote]

Oh man, I don’t know.

I feel too far removed, both geographically and chronologically, to offer any sort of meaningful opinion on that.

Plus, I’m on the Shinkansen heading for the Kyoto Enbu Taikai; don’t bring me down!

But I’m sure you have, as always, an interesting point. What is it?
[/quote]

That you should consider Seppuku immediately.
[/quote]

Nah. Chushin’s a good friend of mine. I’d never suggest that. Though knowing him, he probably has the perfect sword for the job.

158

[quote]YamatoDamashii92 wrote:
In 2013 on average American’s paid $328 a month for healthcare. That is over $4000 a year. For a family that is more than the average European pays into the health service right?[/quote]

Hence the quality of dental services in the UK…

159

[quote]NorCal916 wrote:

[quote]YamatoDamashii92 wrote:
In 2013 on average American’s paid $328 a month for healthcare. That is over $4000 a year. For a family that is more than the average European pays into the health service right?[/quote]

Hence the quality of dental services in the UK…
[/quote]

Or in Sweden…