To Happydog,
Just read your message on E vs T. My last test a week ago show T is <10 and so is my E. I have prostate cancer and have been treating it with various forms of chemicals to keep PSA low. Have had T as high as 950 (about 7 years ago) I am 81 and still playing hockey. PSA is now rising and have not figured out next step.
Stu
PS Have large man boobs despite taking Arimedex.
Assuming that I use LabCorp, I notice that the testing sticky recommends LabCorp E2 serum (Test Number: 004515 CPT Code: 82670 testId=408010
Electrochemiluminescence immunoassay (ECLIA)
“This estradiol assay is designed for the investigation of fertility of women of reproductive age and for the support of in vitro fertilization.”
Why not use the LabCorp Estradiol, Sensitive (Test Number: 140244 CPT Code: 8267 testId=408440
Radioimmunoassay (RIA)
"The analytic range of the assay is appropriate for the assessment of the low levels of estradiol typically observed in men, prepubertal girls, and postmenopausal women. "
One difference is cost. Requestatest.com offers the standard LabCorp test (reference range 7.6 - 42.6 pg/mL) for $49 but charges $119 for the sensitive (reference range 3 - 70 pg/mL).
(I have no relationship with the site other than as a customer who strongly disapproves of their Web site’s stock photography.)
[quote]Rickenbacker wrote:
(I have no relationship with the site other than as a customer who strongly disapproves of their Web site’s stock photography.)[/quote]
Haha!
Please let me know the ways to bring down E2 level down.My E2 level is 103 pg/mL.
[quote]NeverAlone wrote:
Whoa. I found the NEJM article. http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa1206168#t=article
When they are talking about low estrogen, they mean REALLY low estrogen.
They divided guys into two groups and prescribed Androgel to both. But for group 2, they also prescribed Anastrozole.
The wrinkle is that the Anastrozole dose was 1 mg per day! That seems like a heck of a lot, and it showed.
For the highest level of Androgel (100mg/day):
Group 1 = 805 ng/dl (T) and 33.3 pg/ml (E2)
Group 2 = 934 ng/dl (T) and 02.8 pg/ml (E2)
Not surprisingly, group 2 had such a low level of E2 that they didn’t do so hot.
In short, nothing that really changes what’s already said in this sticky. [/quote]
LEF has now weighed in on the study, basically confirming that the Anastrozole dose was super high and the media coverage about low estrogen causing problems was misleading. Worth a read, they cover lots of other research on HRT issues:
To TNATIONS users- Urgent- please help me with my case.
I am 28 years old guy living in Canada, took couple steroid cycles in my life and unfortunately it caused my much lower natural testosterone production, I tried to restore it but no results, anyway I was borned with not so high T (I didnt check, just think like that because before steroid use in 20-25 age I didnt feel need to have sex more than once daily- now almost zero libido and other low T symptoms of course).
My recent and first in my life bloodwork made on FEBR 2014 shows:
:T level at low end of range- 10.1 nmol/L (canadian range 10.3- 29,5)
:LH- 12.3 U/L so little above range(range <12)
:FSH- 7.3 U/L so little above range(range <7)
:E2- 42 pmol/L (11,44 in american scale, it suppose to be shared by 3.67)
According to bloodwork I have issue with balls, but they are fine because when I took ginseng+tribulus+maca I got back to good level of T, almost my level before started juice use (but it was just temporary about 40 days so this is no solution), another proof- when I took 500 iu of HCG after couple hours got very high T and libido of course (I have used HCG e3d from that time until now-about 1,5 months, and here there is hard quest- is it possible that LH cant works for balls of any reason? I personally thought there was something wrong with this results of bloodwork but doc sayd there are no mistakes in it.
I live in Canada and endo didnt agree for HRT. I will try with other endo but if dont get it do it by myself, fortunately bloodwork in Canada is free.
I have read hundreds HRT’s users opinions and some other stuff and think that
the best protocol to keep stable T and thus E2 is to take the same day, the same time T+HCG+Arimidex,for example e3d 50mg T, 500iu HCG, 0.25mg arimidex. Optimal E2 range is ussually 20-30 and sweet spot probably at 22 but thinking logically if my E2 was 11,44 when T was 10.1 means that if I set up my T at 30,3 the best E2 suppose to be 34,2- aint like that?
I have HCG and T but couldnt get ADEX I bought other anastrozole (Accord), but unfortunately generic anastrozoles dont work the same well like Arimidex
Thank U in advance for help!, waiting for any clues!
Canunk28: Please do not place your case into any of the stickies. Create your own thread and keep all of your posts about you in that one thread so there is context for all later posts. Please read the advice for new guys sticky.
Please do not respond here.
Could anybody pleas explain to me. How come that in my blood test I have Estradiol 0,035 pg/ml and its like in higher half of the optimal range. Thank you
tofmik,
Please open your own thread to discuss this. Should not be in a sticky like this.
In your thread, please post all of your lab work and other data. Please see the advice for new guys sticky.
Top read thankyou
KSMan (and others),
Would it be possible to discuss the various compounds that have an effect on E2 and their applications?
Off the top of my head there’s:
Anastrozole, Letrozole, Exemestane (A.I.)
Clomid, Nolvadex (SERMS)
Proviron (DHT that displaces E2 in receptors?)
HCG (Stimulates T, so presumably E production as well)
Horny Goat Weed, zinc, Erase, etc. (OTC options)
I somewhat understand what is going on with these and how they differ, but it’s hard to know when each is appropriate for a given situation. Some sort of discussion on the topic would be interesting to me.
[quote]Fat Boy 33 wrote:
KSMan (and others),
Would it be possible to discuss the various compounds that have an effect on E2 and their applications?
Off the top of my head there’s:
Anastrozole, Letrozole, Exemestane (A.I.)
- anastrozole works for most guys with zero side effects, it has a dose-response profile that is very predictable for most. However, some are over-responders who need to take 1/4th the expected dose. [One guy was 1/8th].
- letro works, but has a reputation for extreme responses, so hard to recommend
- exemestane [Aromasin] works but you are taking in a vastly large weekly dose in mg’s. I really don’t see the advantage. But it is good to fall back on if anastrozole is not available or not tolerated.
Clomid, Nolvadex (SERMS)
- both will INCREASE estrogens, but they block estrogens at the receptors of SELECTED tissues. So one may need an AI when using a SERM. Clomid has nasty estrogenic side effects for some guys so I suggest Nolvadex which works just as well. Docs have trouble doing this because they can’t read and have no deductive reasoning skills unless they understand the concept of functional medicine.
Proviron (DHT that displaces E2 in receptors?)
- It has that effect, but is not a human hormone and is expensive, it can have unintended consequences. Most cannot use this as it is illegal in USA and Canada, so cannot be prescribed. [unobtainium]
HCG (Stimulates T, so presumably E production as well)
- yes and large doses will create large amounts of T–>E2 inside the testes and anastrozole cannot reduce that. A very few will get a lot of E2 from low or very low doses of hCG - differences in genetics or gene expression. Note that large doses of SERMs can create high levels of LH that have the same result as high doses of hCG. So one should not combine hCG+SERM
Horny Goat Weed, zinc, Erase, etc. (OTC options)
- no experience. But in most cases, this is like taking a knife to a gun fight. While a zinc deficiency might make things worse, large amounts of zinc are not going to have great effects vs a normal amount.
I somewhat understand what is going on with these and how they differ, but it’s hard to know when each is appropriate for a given situation. Some sort of discussion on the topic would be interesting to me.
[/quote]
Really good stuff, KSMan. Thanks.
hey
to every one I have problem and I don’t know what I can
first of all sorry for my bad language
I have estradiol is 119 pg/mL
and my TT is 504 ng/dL
now I have ED and lose of libido
I didn’t take any medications and no TRT ever
now my doctor give me nolva 10 mg 2 times in day and I am on the nolva for 26 days and no improvement .
So what your advice to me ??
This thread is a sticky to discuss estradiol issues, NOT for issues for individuals.
Please create your own thread and keep that thread for all of your posts.
In your new thread, please post your lab work and ranges.
Read the ‘advice for new guys sticky’ and post more info as in the sticky.
We will help you in your new thread, please do not respond here.
-Thanks!
Been cruising and blasting for quite some time now (10 years). Ive never really needed the use of an AI but know now that im needing some. No real serious sides, just want to shed some bloat and squeeze a little more out of my blast.
An endo gave me some Arimidex last year and it worked but im gonna pick up some from a research site.
Any suggestions on chems and dosages?
Thanks in advance
great post. Very interested in the sources for some of the info you posted. Especially regarding estradiol’s ability to act as an androgen antagonist at the receptor. If you have any articles could u please post or send me in the right direction. thanks
Oh well, ill be running .5 e3d to see how the bloat and mood changes
There are 7 stickies in this forum. Please read these:
- advice for new guys
- thyroid basics [the neglected hormone]
- protocol for injections.
Do not discuss your case here, create your own thread and keep using it to provide context.
There are serious implications for any legitimate website that has discussions of sources. So this is discouraged and I believe that the termination of private messaging here was in part driven by similar legal considerations. There are other sites that you can find.