Watson’s testosterone cypionate 10ml 200/ml injecting 100mg/week lasts 20 weeks. Costs $100 at typical pharmacies, $42 at Sam’s Club with a business membership and often similar savings at Costco. What you inject is what you get, none of the absorption unknowns of the transdermals. You can inject with #29 .5ml .5" [50iu] insulin syringes - $12.60 for a box of 100.
I feel that one should start with 1.0mg/week Arimidex/anastrozole and adjust dose after first lab check.
You need hCG to preserve your testes, otherwise one gets a slow TRT induced organ failure. Also needed to preserve pregnenolone production, otherwise TRT induced hormone loss. Lab tests for pregnenolone would show a level decline. DHEA production in the adrenals can be rate limited by low pregnenolone.
Serum labs seem to the be best for TRT monitoring and dosing as many are familiar with the numbers and dose-response. Rhein will get into broader issues.
Watson’s testosterone cypionate 10ml 200/ml injecting 100mg/week lasts 20 weeks. Costs $100 at typical pharmacies, $42 at Sam’s Club with a business membership and often similar savings at Costco. What you inject is what you get, none of the absorption unknowns of the transdermals. You can inject with #29 .5ml .5" [50iu] insulin syringes - $12.60 for a box of 100.
I feel that one should start with 1.0mg/week Arimidex/anastrozole and adjust dose after first lab check.
You need hCG to preserve your testes, otherwise one gets a slow TRT induced organ failure. Also needed to preserve pregnenolone production, otherwise TRT induced hormone loss. Lab tests for pregnenolone would show a level decline. DHEA production in the adrenals can be rate limited by low pregnenolone.
Serum labs seem to the be best for TRT monitoring and dosing as many are familiar with the numbers and dose-response. Rhein will get into broader issues.
KSMAN’s advice is the one that helped me with choosing what to take.
My Dr. prescribed Watson’s testosterone cypionate 10ml 200/ml. It was $112 at Walmart and $118 at Sams. Thankfully $15 with insurance. I am also injecting 100mg/week in two injections of 50mg each. I use the 29 gauge .5ml insulin syringes just as KSMAN advised and I never feel a thing.
I bought 10 syringes to start with. They cost $1.80 at Walmart. I only bought a few as I was worried about getting the oil to pull up. It takes maybe 30-45 secs to pull up and inject.
I have a question about Estrogen if any one knows. My last test (with NO TRT) showed Testerone at 288 and Estradiol 42. My doctor wants to wait on the Arimidex for now. So right now I’m waiting the two months my doctor asked me to take injections. I used the “Roid Calculator” to see when testosterone levels are stable at the dose of 50mg/2x/wk. It looks like by week two they are pretty stable. By week three they are very consistent. My doctor wants me to schedule an appointment to have my blood taken one week after my last injection.
The “Roid Calculator” shows that Total mg in blood/day of testosterone to be 12-15 mg consistently by week three. One week later without another injection it shows Total mg in blood/day of testosterone to be 7 mg. If I do this I am assuming it will show my testosterone to be lower than it was on average the prior weeks.
That being said I understand that my estrogen will or should rise higher than the 42. But if I wait a week after my last injection wouldn’t that make my Estradiol also seem lower than it was the prior weeks?
I ask this because when I go back with information from this board in hand along with my test results I want to have a firm ground to stand on as far as negotiating Arimidex. If E2 is 70?? on average I want him to see that. Not maybe50?? Hopefully I can get him to test me sooner as I hate the thought of my E2 going up. The sooner I can get on Arimidex the better. I also understand about the trio (T+AI+hCG). I know I also need HCG, but that’s off topic.
[quote]r1013 wrote:
KSMAN’s advice is the one that helped me with choosing what to take.
My Dr. prescribed Watson’s testosterone cypionate 10ml 200/ml. It was $112 at Walmart and $118 at Sams. Thankfully $15 with insurance. I am also injecting 100mg/week in two injections of 50mg each. I use the 29 gauge .5ml insulin syringes just as KSMAN advised and I never feel a thing.
I bought 10 syringes to start with. They cost $1.80 at Walmart. I only bought a few as I was worried about getting the oil to pull up. It takes maybe 30-45 secs to pull up and inject.
I have a question about Estrogen if any one knows. My last test (with NO TRT) showed Testerone at 288 and Estradiol 42. My doctor wants to wait on the Arimidex for now. So right now I’m waiting the two months my doctor asked me to take injections. I used the “Roid Calculator” to see when testosterone levels are stable at the dose of 50mg/2x/wk. It looks like by week two they are pretty stable. By week three they are very consistent. My doctor wants me to schedule an appointment to have my blood taken one week after my last injection.
The “Roid Calculator” shows that Total mg in blood/day of testosterone to be 12-15 mg consistently by week three. One week later without another injection it shows Total mg in blood/day of testosterone to be 7 mg. If I do this I am assuming it will show my testosterone to be lower than it was on average the prior weeks.
That being said I understand that my estrogen will or should rise higher than the 42. But if I wait a week after my last injection wouldn’t that make my Estradiol also seem lower than it was the prior weeks?
I ask this because when I go back with information from this board in hand along with my test results I want to have a firm ground to stand on as far as negotiating Arimidex. If E2 is 70?? on average I want him to see that. Not maybe50?? Hopefully I can get him to test me sooner as I hate the thought of my E2 going up. The sooner I can get on Arimidex the better. I also understand about the trio (T+AI+hCG). I know I also need HCG, but that’s off topic.
[/quote]
Your doctor may not consider giving you arimidex; some won’t. When all else fails, get your own. There are reliable sources of research adex available, and if my E2 was 42 I would start at 1mg a week and see how it goes from there. 1mg a week of adex will usually cut a mans’ E2 level in half, and half of 42 is very close to “perfect”.
Here’s a link that may help: Endocrine Press | Endocrine Society
Great Post, Well written. People also forget the effects of estrogen in relation to cancer, specifically prostate cancer. It’s not necessarily high T that is dangerous but rather the elevated E that can accompany it.
Additionally, for aging men, low T levels are actually associated with increased cardiovascular risk.
I totally agree with keeping the T levels in the mid to upper range for aging men (and keeping the E low).
Again, great post!
Thanks again for the info KSMan. I’ll ask my doc for a persciption for hCG. Has there been some discussion here about dosing for hCG.
Regarding the anastrozole. I order a bottle today. Maybe it will be clear when I recieve the product but how do you take this stuff. No one has really said.
Regarding syrings, I picked up a bunch from a veteranary supply for my allergy shots. I’m pritty sure I can get what ever I need.
As far as my doc being good with urine lab data, she did not request the estrogen tests in the first place so I suspect I’ll be teaching her from what I’m learning here and elsewhere.
I will say that pissing in this jug all day and then freezing it and mailing it is a pain but I’m not big on giving blood either and I did not really trust the local labs collection center.
Anyone else have experience with androgel. I read some place here that they noticed a redness on the neck and chest. I have or had the same effect. I stopped putting it on my chest ot see if it goes away but does not appear to be going away.
[quote]GeoBob wrote:
Thanks again for the info KSMan. I’ll ask my doc for a persciption for hCG. Has there been some discussion here about dosing for hCG.
Regarding the anastrozole. I order a bottle today. Maybe it will be clear when I recieve the product but how do you take this stuff. No one has really said.
Regarding syrings, I picked up a bunch from a veteranary supply for my allergy shots. I’m pritty sure I can get what ever I need.
As far as my doc being good with urine lab data, she did not request the estrogen tests in the first place so I suspect I’ll be teaching her from what I’m learning here and elsewhere.
I will say that pissing in this jug all day and then freezing it and mailing it is a pain but I’m not big on giving blood either and I did not really trust the local labs collection center.
Anyone else have experience with androgel. I read some place here that they noticed a redness on the neck and chest. I have or had the same effect. I stopped putting it on my chest ot see if it goes away but does not appear to be going away.[/quote]
I used androl gel for over 6 months…had no probs…it got my test from 172 up to 300’s…but told dr. I wanted injections…just told him I did not feel it enough…and Ksman schooled me on what to tell him…lol I t worked…thanks again
BG, Anastrozole is an oral, take any time of day with or without food. Do not refrigerate the liquid anastrozole. Some do get skin irritation from the testosterone gels.
I used androl gel for over 6 months…had no probs…it got my test from 172 up to 300’s…but told dr. I wanted injections…just told him I did not feel it enough…and Ksman schooled me on what to tell him…lol I t worked…thanks again
[/quote]
I recall that you felt like crap on the a-gel. Didn’t the a-gel also increase your E2?
I realize this might be off topic but you guys reading this thread seem to be very well informed so, I’ll ask. I was previously advised to try Halodrole and Novedex. I now understand from reading this thread that Novedex was a AI but what was Halodrole suppose to do. I understand it was suppose to raise your test levels but how was it supposed to do that. I don’t think it did much since I had my last blood work done after having been on it for a couple of months.
As aways, thanks guys for beening such a big help.
The article states:
“”“In young men receiving daily 1.0-mg doses of the irreversible AI anastrozole for 10 wk, contrary to the effects of testosterone withdrawal there were significant decreases in E2 with concomitant increases in serum testosterone, luteinizing hormone (LH), and follicle-stimulating hormone (FSH).”“”
Am I supposed to believe anything that is stated in that article? Anastrozle is absolutely not an “irreversible AI”. Also, most research on anastrozole in men shows that T, LH and FSH are increased. So why do these people state the opposite. And “testosterone withdrawal” comes out of left field with another WTF are these guy smoking?
They obviously did not have anyone review or properly proof read this ‘research’. The paper also should be stating the source of any agents used. Where did they get the material for the sugar capsules? Where did they get the Novedex TX? From a retail store shelf or from the manufacturer? If from the manufacturer, there can be doubts about what was in the product - improperly sampled. Was it ‘doped’? Why would this so-called AI increase E2 levels if it did not have testosterone in it. If this product increased your T levels by reducing E2 levels, which it did not, then why were LH&FSH levels not changed in the active group? If T increased as they stated, we would also not expect to see increases in hematocrit - there were none.
They also need to demonstrate that there is no cross activation of the ingredients or their metabolites on the lab testes. Are the ingredients or metabolites creating falsely high T readings or increasing E readings? If that was happening, we would see increases in T and or E, while LH and FSH could be unaffected - which was the case. That would also be consistent with minor Anabolic results. There should have be new cases or worsting of acne.
With T levels increased as much as reported, there should have been an HPTA shutdown with LH and FSH heading for zero.
“”“Unfortunately, in the present study we did not determine muscle strength or mass; however, we did assess body composition and found that Novedex XT had no effect on fat-free mass (an indirect indicator of muscle mass) but was effective at producing a modest but significant 3.5% decrease in fat mass when compared with placebo.”“”
You cannot compare to a placebo group with N=8. If the “Novedex XT had no effect on fat-free mass” that is all that can be said. If the placebo group gained fat, so what?
“”“The participantsâ?? diets and physical activity levels were not standardized, and participants were asked to not change their dietary habits during the course of the study.”“”
Nothing in the above statement implies that the unchanged dietary habits were equivalent.
GH levels were reduced.
The week zero E2 levels are insanely high. The active group has much higher E2 levels in Week 0. Note that, WTF, most of the active group E2 levels have standard deviations that are greater than the mean.
Hay guys, so I got my bottle of anastrozole. It 30ml @ 1mg/ml. It’s a little pump bottle. I’m trying to figure out what one pump is suppose to equal. I thought maybe I should pull out a syringe to measure out 1ml and then devide that up over the week. I suppose I could try pumping this little bottle into a syringe and see what it equals. Anyone had any experience with the product. It was from Iron Dragon Research Peptides & Chemicals
Thanks guys, I post my lab results later this week when the come in.
As KSman says, count the drops. Take off the pump and use a syringe to count how many drops are in 1ml. The reason to do this is; depending upon the formulation of the liquid product you have, it may be water based or alcohol based, or something else entirely.
A water based solution will have about 30 drops per ml, whereas an alcohol based solution (due to the difference in surface tension between water and alcohol bases) may count out 40 or even 50 drops per ml and dosing would be greatly affected w/o taking this extra step.
As was mentioned previously, 1mg a week in divided doses is a good place to start for many men on TRT.
Rhein Consulting Laboratories 24hr urin hormone numbers
Just got my lab results back and wanted to get some feed back if I could before speaking with my doctor tommarow.
Not sure how they compare with blood test number but they give ranges
I’ve been on Androgel for the past two months (5gms daily) with no (AI) and not hCG. Previous total T was around 280 (which was low enough to get me on the Androgel and get the ball rolling)
I followed the labs recommendation to stop using the gel 24hr before and during the collection (not sure if I should have done that or not)
Total Testosterone was 9.5 (Low) 45-85 range
(That is the only T value the give)
E3 was 3.6 1-16 range
Obviously there is a lot more listed which I will post tommarow when I have more time but I thought these two number were odd. I certainly expected the T value to be higher as well as the E3
I don’t think my doc is going to really understand the whole picture much better than me so I’ll be looking for advice. I’ve asked to be perscribed T cyp injectible and hCG. I also gave her a pile of print outs from here and else where on the internet so I think we’ll get past that part but now I’m curious why the low T and what I view as a low E3.
I guess I feel like I’m really starting from scratch here and we’ll see what the nest round of testing shows. I started on Arimidex last week after the sample collection. I’m thinking that it’s probably not necessary yet considering the T value.