Very true, and the fact that most doc’s are skeptical of these issues in the first place doesn’t really help. Most of the people I’ve spoken to on the phone seem to brush it off since I’m younger, either that or they assume there’s no issue sicne I’m in range (be it the lowest count in the spectrum). I’ll probably try and get prescribed to T HCG and Ai
ok, I’m new here after a 2 year setback from weight training. I’m 42, 6’1" and 200 lbs. Was a great athlete in my time (sprinter, champion pole vaulter). I eat well, no smoke, no drink. Just got a brief verbal over phone from blood work and TT=340, E2=59. I feel like total crap. Crazy mood swings, lethargic/don’t care, gut/hips growning into 10-15 extra lbs of pear shaped idiot mass, sore and tired, tired, tired.
Trying to convince my doc that the way to go is TRT and Adex, but need to show him “proof”.
Question: What are “key” publications I can reference to him regarding the E2/T relationship?
I could just have him read this forum, but don’t think a doctor (correction: my doctor) will take anything titled “Testosterone Nation” seriously (even though this is the most intelligent and informative site I’ve EVER seen.)
Thank you for your help guys (and this fantastic thread)…I’m a Dad of 4 and sick and tired of not being able to keep up with my great kids as well as get my training program off the pavement.
Coach
SSCcoach,
I’m relatively new to this as well. However I’ve done a fair amount of research and been through and through these forum threads. Based on what I’ve read from this site and others, it seems to me like your E2 is way up, as they say optimal is 22 ng/dl. Also, your TT isn’t all that high either, and given your E2 I would say that your FT (free testosterone, you def. need to have this tested as this is the T that really matters) is probably low as well.
I’m not sure what kind of doctor you are going to, but I would see an endocrinologist. One of the problems that everyone runs into, myself included, is finding a doctor who isn’t a skeptic and will actually work with you in regards to TRT. If you aren’t getting what you want from this doctor, get a copy of your labs and go to another one. However, you need more tests done that will determine what is causing your low T.
Honestly, if you are going to a doctor who is at least familiar with the E2/T relationship amidst the many other complicated issues regarding TRT, I would probably try and find another one. Best of luck, I’m in the same boat, only half your age…
Also, from an energy standpoint, which is one of my biggest complaints in regards to low T, I’ve been told several times to have my thyroid hormones checked, that this would be consistent with my energy levels, so this may be something you should look into as well. If you ask me I’d say have as much tested as possible in regards to hormones, because the more you know the more it’ll tell you why it’s happening and thus give you some better insight as to what to do about it. Best of luck.
[quote]Tylerdrms wrote:
Also, from an energy standpoint, which is one of my biggest complaints in regards to low T, I’ve been told several times to have my thyroid hormones checked, that this would be consistent with my energy levels, so this may be something you should look into as well. If you ask me I’d say have as much tested as possible in regards to hormones, because the more you know the more it’ll tell you why it’s happening and thus give you some better insight as to what to do about it. Best of luck.[/quote]
Some of the best dr’s out there are
East coast - Dr Overbeck (We both work together from a holisitic approach and traditional approach finding root cause of people issue focusing heavily on nutritional deficiency/imbalance, environmental toxins, mental stress, adrenals/thyroid and then sex hormones). Majority of people under 25 could avoid TRT when other variables are fixed.
Dr Shippen - He is a master of testosterone and is very flexible, Very respected man in the business and never anything bad can be said about him. He is the grand father of TRT, but he is getting up there in age and slowly down in taking on new patients.
Mid west - Dr Crisler - He is very knowledgeable about testosterone and has many satified patients. He has been at the forefront of HRT for many years.
west coast - Dr mariano - He is a speciaist integretive psychology and hormones as well.
Very highly respected in the field and knows hormones inside and out from both emotional aspect and also physical aspect.
Guys, this is a topic specific sticky. Please do not use it this way. Stay on topic or open your own post.
I have just finished reading this thread for the third time…
I am 48 years old, 6’1" and 188 pounds. BF is about 8%.
I began TRT about 2 months ago and am using 100 MG T CYP injected sc in 2 divided doses. I am also using HCG 2 x weekly at 25 units per.
My blood results from Friday showed Total T of 672 and Estradiol of 64. My prior E level was 36.
I began using liquid adex about a month ago (same time as starting the HCG) and have been using what I calculated as 1 mg per week (using 12 drops on MWF). My test was done on a Friday after doing a T injection on Thursday (per my Doctor’s instructions.)
I have a call scheduled to review results with him tomorrow and wonder about asking him to prescribe Arimidex or if I should stick with the liquid from UG sources. If I stick with the liquid, I will need to go up in dose (I think) and am interested in advice in this regard.
I have been feeling pretty poorly the past few weeks, lack of energy, poor sleep, lack of motivation. I am guessing this is related to the high E levels. Reading this thread has been helpful, but it does seem like a lot of moving targets. I do NOT want him to lower my T treatment in order to manage the E, but am unsure how to address this with him. I am also not comfortable sharing that I am using an AI on a do it yourself basis.
What suggestions do you all have for me? Thanks.
[quote]thr61 wrote:
I have just finished reading this thread for the third time…
I am 48 years old, 6’1" and 188 pounds. BF is about 8%.
I began TRT about 2 months ago and am using 100 MG T CYP injected sc in 2 divided doses. I am also using HCG 2 x weekly at 25 units per.
My blood results from Friday showed Total T of 672 and Estradiol of 64. My prior E level was 36.
I began using liquid adex about a month ago (same time as starting the HCG) and have been using what I calculated as 1 mg per week (using 12 drops on MWF). My test was done on a Friday after doing a T injection on Thursday (per my Doctor’s instructions.)
I have a call scheduled to review results with him tomorrow and wonder about asking him to prescribe Arimidex or if I should stick with the liquid from UG sources. If I stick with the liquid, I will need to go up in dose (I think) and am interested in advice in this regard.
I have been feeling pretty poorly the past few weeks, lack of energy, poor sleep, lack of motivation. I am guessing this is related to the high E levels. Reading this thread has been helpful, but it does seem like a lot of moving targets. I do NOT want him to lower my T treatment in order to manage the E, but am unsure how to address this with him. I am also not comfortable sharing that I am using an AI on a do it yourself basis.
What suggestions do you all have for me? Thanks.[/quote]
swithch ug source because it aint doing shit …they are russian roulette stick with real stuff,
Update on E levels: just discovered that I was not clear on HCG instructions and had been taking 2x the prescribed amount (oops…). Net result is a boost in T levels AND conversion to E. Am now on the right dose and will get retested in 3 weeks. Now to decide about leaving liquid adex levels alone or to bump it.
[quote]thr61 wrote:
Update on E levels: just discovered that I was not clear on HCG instructions and had been taking 2x the prescribed amount (oops…). Net result is a boost in T levels AND conversion to E. Am now on the right dose and will get retested in 3 weeks. Now to decide about leaving liquid adex levels alone or to bump it.[/quote]
Sounds like something shippen does. He has guys mix it half dosage 5 cc vs 10 cc because its less water…This tends to confuse alot of his patients. When they take 25 ius EOD its really 500 ius EOD
New to this thread. I am 43 yrs old, 5’7", 153 lbs and been doing my own TRT for nearly a year via 250mg Test Ethanate per week. Just got labs back indicating Test = 1751 ng/dL and Estradiol = 71 pg/ml. I just ordered some L-dex from ChemOne and I figure to dose at 0.5mg 3x per week to equal 1.5mg per week. This seem about right? I am confused though as it lists as 1mg/ml but the write up states 0.5mg/ml; which is correct? Any thoughts or dosing insights would be helpful.
Guys, this is a topic specific sticky. Please do not use it this way. Stay on topic or open your own post.
[quote]TrueDude1965 wrote:
New to this thread. I am 43 yrs old, 5’7", 153 lbs and been doing my own TRT for nearly a year via 250mg Test Ethanate per week. Just got labs back indicating Test = 1751 ng/dL and Estradiol = 71 pg/ml. I just ordered some L-dex from ChemOne and I figure to dose at 0.5mg 3x per week to equal 1.5mg per week. This seem about right? I am confused though as it lists as 1mg/ml but the write up states 0.5mg/ml; which is correct? Any thoughts or dosing insights would be helpful. [/quote]
Drop dosage in half will not need adex its that simple. Once e2 is stable then add in hcg 250 ius 2 times a week to keep balls full back fill with DHEA if needed.
That was an outstanding post. I have a question for you, I am fairly new to working out, and I am over 40. Besides watching my diet what else can I do to lower my E levels? what is a good AI supplement to take? I would like to hear any answers that you may have. Like I said I am new to all of this.
devildog
[quote]devildog wrote:
That was an outstanding post. I have a question for you, I am fairly new to working out, and I am over 40. Besides watching my diet what else can I do to lower my E levels? what is a good AI supplement to take? I would like to hear any answers that you may have. Like I said I am new to all of this.
devildog[/quote]
Lets put this another way. There are things that cause E problems that need to be avoided. Soy is suspect, as is sesame. Keep alcohol intake reasonable. Review all medicines, Rx or OTC to see which load up the liver’s P450 enzyme pathways that also remove estrogen from the body.
Get lab work from LEF.org. The male panel will tell you what is going with hormones and other issues.
Stay healthy, take 3-4000iu vitamin D per day with some decent multivitamins. Eat healthy fats and take fish oil.
Stay lean. Nothing will predictably increase E more that getting fat. When you get fat and E increases, T decreases, SHBG increases, FT as a fraction of [lower] TT decreases. Once one gets behind that 8 ball, one gets locked in.
[quote]TrueDude1965 wrote:
New to this thread. I am 43 yrs old, 5’7", 153 lbs and been doing my own TRT for nearly a year via 250mg Test Ethanate per week. Just got labs back indicating Test = 1751 ng/dL and Estradiol = 71 pg/ml. I just ordered some L-dex from ChemOne and I figure to dose at 0.5mg 3x per week to equal 1.5mg per week. This seem about right? I am confused though as it lists as 1mg/ml but the write up states 0.5mg/ml; which is correct? Any thoughts or dosing insights would be helpful. [/quote]
I would reduce your TRT by 20% every 3-4 weeks till you are at 125 mgs a week. Reduce your T and your e2 goes down with at adex…Simple solution YOU ARE NOT ON TRT BUT STEROID DOSAGE !! DO NOT CONFUSE THE TOO
my results just came back…says ESTRADIOL (SERUM) <10 RANGE, IS <50 PG/ML ??
IM ON TRT 100mg a week
about 300 prop,
300 mast…
50 winny a day
any idea starting point for anti ?
[quote]fightu35 wrote:
my results just came back…says ESTRADIOL (SERUM) <10 RANGE, IS <50 PG/ML ??
IM ON TRT 100mg a week
about 300 prop,
300 mast…
50 winny a day
any idea starting point for anti ?[/quote]
The lab report seems to be stating that your E2 level is below the detectable range for that testing method. Or the testing was botched.
Your E2 is already too low… why? You do not need adex.
Otherwise, your post should never have been put in this sticky. This is for information concerning E2 management and information, not a place to discuss individual cases. Open new threads for your own case work.
sorry…I hit the wrong 1…they said my E2 was good…??at last check from another lab it was 37…so not sure how it would go down…I was not on anu antis…just winsterol,thanks again.
What a source for very necessary information. Thanks to all that have contributed. I’ll keep this short for starters since I just lost the last long message by changing pages
I’m having Rhein Labs run a complete Urin Steroid Hormone Profile. My previous blood lab work did not included Estradiol, I’m on androgel (5gm gel pack/day). Been on it for about 45 days.
I’ll post my previous and new lab results when then come in unless someone is interested now.
-
Should I be requesting Rhein also run the additional tests they list below the complete list (they are Aldosterone, Triodothyroneine, Thyroxine, Human Growth Hormone.
-
Theys suggest not using the Androgel for 24 hours before and during the collection day. Sounds good to me but any input would be help
-
Should I go ahead and order some Arimidex now, since it seems to be necessary in most TRT.
-
I’ve read all of this thread but don’t recall learning what indicators or at what point HCG becomes benificial. I understand what it does, (i.e. stimulates your testicals to continue to produce testoserone) but I am not clear if there are chemical indicators that suggest when to consider adding it.
Last question is regarding the androgel. One it is expensive ($300) per month. Are the injectibles much less, and two how long does the androgel take to get you up to what ever level it will get you up to. The product info suggest up to 6 months to see all the benefits but I’m currious as to when you could expect to see just how much this does is putting into my system. I suspect it is rather quickly and not a 6 month build up.
I noticed about 20 to 30 day into the treatment that my libido definetly came back but then faded down. I’m thinking that was the result of estradiol levels coming up as a responce to the Androgel.
Any advice about the androgel vs other testosterone products would also be appreciated.
Again thanks to all that have contributed here, hope we can meet face to face some time, (I live in central Pa)