Escalation in Israel

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
1101

[quote]Mufasa wrote:

I agree with this, Pat.

I think I’ll put “Sit and talk with JB and Push in person” on my “Bucket List”.

Mufasa[/quote]

I would also gladly share that beer with you too. Even though we don’t exchange that much, it’s largely because you generally have a measured and reasonable stance on issues.
It’s pretty cool to meet folks you’ve only talked too online. I had the pleasure of meeting dmaddox in person and he is a genuine cool kat. He’s the real deal, super nice, good person.
Now Kamui, I am drinking Absinth with him.
/derail

1102

[quote]jbpick86 wrote:

[quote]ScholesGoals wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]squatbenchhench wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]squatbenchhench wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]squatbenchhench wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

You can’t. There declared agenda is the destruction of Israel and the genocide of Jews.
[/quote]

Nope. The majority of the world’s Jewish population lives outside Israel, and does not want to live in Israel. There are about about 6.5 million Jews in Israel, 5.5 million Jews in the USA, and about 6.5 million Jews in Europe (inc Russia).

Hamas has no designs on Western Europe, Eastern Europe, America or Russia; nor in the Jews that live there. Hamas is against Zionism which is not actually believed to the extent they live it by most Jews.

This is what you Israel supporters just don’t get - Israel is not in any way representative of the worlds Jews and not even where most of them live or want to live!

[/quote]

1 - Quran condemns Jews to extermination
“The Meccan [Quran] chapter entitled ‘Jews’ or ‘Children of Israel’ is remarkable… It’s about today’s Jews, those of our century, and speaks only of extermination and digging graves… This chapter sentences the Jews to extermination before a single Jew existed on earth… Palestine’s blessing is linked to destruction of the center of global corruption [Jews of Israel], the snake’s head. When the snake’s head of [global] corruption is cut off, here in Palestine, and when the octopus’s [Jew’s] tentacles are cut off around the world, the real blessing will come with the destruction of the Jews, here in Palestine, and it is one of the splendid real blessings in Palestine.”
2 - Jews to face yet another Holocaust
Headline: “Suffering by Fire is Jews’ destiny in this world and next”
“… you will taste the punishment of Scorching Fire.” [Quran 3:181]
“This [Quran] verse threatens the Jews with the punishment of Fire… the reason for the punishment of Fire is it is fitting retribution for what they have done… but the urgent question is, is it possible that they will have the punishment of Fire in this world, before the great punishment [of Fire in Hell] … many of the [Islamic] religious leaders believe that the [Jews’] punishment of Fire is in this world, before the next world… therefore we are sure that the Holocaust is still to come upon the Jews.”

http://avalon.law.yale.edu/20th_century/hamas.asp

http://www.ruthfullyyours.com/2014/07/24/andrew-bostom-understanding-hamas-mainstream-genocidal-islamic-jew-hatred/

Do you require more evidence as to Hamas’s true goal of total genocide of all Jews? I can do this all day…[/quote]

Would you apply the same principle to the bible and thus by extension all Christians. Or to the stories in the torah and thus all Jews? Because if not your argument rather quickly falls down.
[/quote]

What the hell are you talking about?
I am talking about Hamas own stated mission statement that genocide of all Jews is their ultimate goal. I don’t know if their Quran tells them this or not, I have never read it, nor intend to. I am simply talking about Hamas’s mission statement being the extermination of all Jews.
There is no way around this. It’s a very, very, very, very well documented stance.
[/quote]

Because stances and manifestos don’t have much legitimacy tbh. Do Hamas want to kill Jews in America Europe and Russia? No, of course not.

[/quote]

I just posted the damn links that show they want the extermination of all Jews wherever they may be. Seriously, it’s right ^^^ up there. Click on any of them.
If you have documentation showing a contrary official stance of Hamas, I will gladly look at it. Though I think you might die trying to find a moderate hamas stance.[/quote]

While I don’t support Palestinian nationalism or Israeli nationalism I don’t think nescissarily is the palestinian arguement by non muslims.

The clearest explanation of the leftie stance I have been given is, we supported the horrible dictatorship of the USSR against the Nazi’s as the Russian people had the right to resist.

Now you and I might not support the comparison but I don’t think the majority of pro palestinian people in any way support hamas, I think they just support the people of what they deem and oppressed people, to resist in any way they see fit.

Again not that i think this is a valid stance.[/quote]

The people of Palestine have a voting record that would disagree with you. The majority of Pro-Palestine Palestinians favor Hamas. That is a fact backed by their own voting records. The Pro-Palestinian supporters around the world seem to forget this fact.
[/quote]

Of course, what i am saying is most non palestinians who side with palestine over israel view it in the same way they viewed us supporting the USSR over the Nazi’s.

A jewish Israeli who’s parents both died in the concentration camps, a leftie called Norman Finklestein gives that exact example actually.

Again I don’t agree with him, but I think you are under the assumption most pro palestinian anti israel people are pro Hamas, which I think isn’t really the case most of the time.

1103

[quote]ScholesGoals wrote:

While I don’t support Palestinian nationalism or Israeli nationalism I don’t think necessarily is the palestinian argument by non muslims.

The clearest explanation of the leftie stance I have been given is, we supported the horrible dictatorship of the USSR against the Nazi’s as the Russian people had the right to resist.

Now you and I might not support the comparison but I don’t think the majority of pro palestinian people in any way support hamas, I think they just support the people of what they deem and oppressed people, to resist in any way they see fit.

Again not that i think this is a valid stance.[/quote]

No, I didn’t say it’s the stance of all Palestinians, Muslims or Arabs per se. It’s the stance of Hamas.
It’s tough to know what pro-palestinian, non-residents, non-hamas people really think.
It’s definitely got an antisemitic vibe, but that’s not the same as calling for the genocide as Hamas clearly and repeatedly does.

1104

[quote]Jewbacca wrote:

I’m just a guy who goes to work 6 days a week, works outs a lot, and loves his wife and kids. Today I went to work with formula spit up on my suit and mismatched socks. My shoulder is fucking killing me because I benched with my elbows out. I couldn’t sleep and am so beat I took a 7 year old Provigil to make it through the day that I found at the bottom of the medicine cabinet. In short, I’m basically a lot like you, with a beard and a monotone wardrobe.
[/quote]

Its just sad you believe the people who live in Palestine are not entitled to the same life in the same place as you.

1105

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]ScholesGoals wrote:

While I don’t support Palestinian nationalism or Israeli nationalism I don’t think necessarily is the palestinian argument by non muslims.

The clearest explanation of the leftie stance I have been given is, we supported the horrible dictatorship of the USSR against the Nazi’s as the Russian people had the right to resist.

Now you and I might not support the comparison but I don’t think the majority of pro palestinian people in any way support hamas, I think they just support the people of what they deem and oppressed people, to resist in any way they see fit.

Again not that i think this is a valid stance.[/quote]

No, I didn’t say it’s the stance of all Palestinians, Muslims or Arabs per se. It’s the stance of Hamas.
It’s tough to know what pro-palestinian, non-residents, non-hamas people really think.
It’s definitely got an antisemitic vibe, but that’s not the same as calling for the genocide as Hamas clearly and repeatedly does.[/quote]

I tend to agree with you, however I do think alot of it is a faliure to recognise the conditions of the jews that lead to the overwhelmin support for the creation of Israel.

I think faliure to recognise this leads to people incorrectly drawing comparisons to European colonisation of African lands. I think most of the people who support palestinian nationalism have their hearts in the right place, the however are in my opinion supporting an objectively anti semetic position.

Not because they support the destruction of Israel, because they only support one states destruction despite all states being oppressive.

1107

[quote]jbpick86 wrote:

The people of Palestine have a voting record that would disagree with you. The majority of Pro-Palestine Palestinians favor Hamas. That is a fact backed by their own voting records. The Pro-Palestinian supporters around the world seem to forget this fact.
[/quote]

If this was what happened to your land, what stance would you have towards the people doing it: http://www.jimmo.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/palestine-israel.jpg

Its like a bullied kid shouting at their bully ‘I am going to kill you’ after the bully had just broken both the kids legs.

Does the kid saying it make the bully right to break the kids legs because the kid responds by threatening murder?

1109

[quote]squatbenchhench wrote:

[quote]Jewbacca wrote:

I’m just a guy who goes to work 6 days a week, works outs a lot, and loves his wife and kids. Today I went to work with formula spit up on my suit and mismatched socks. My shoulder is fucking killing me because I benched with my elbows out. I couldn’t sleep and am so beat I took a 7 year old Provigil to make it through the day that I found at the bottom of the medicine cabinet. In short, I’m basically a lot like you, with a beard and a monotone wardrobe.
[/quote]

Its just sad you believe the people who live in Palestine are not entitled to the same life in the same place as you. [/quote]

Great analysis, how did you figure his thoughts out?

1110

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]squatbenchhench wrote:

…Hamas only call for violence because the Israelis will not give a fair two state solution through peaceful negotiations…

[/quote]
[/quote]

Your posts are really childish. I disagree with squatbenchhench but your constant off topic posts do absoloutley nothing. This is an online forum full of adults, would it be too much trouble to act accordingly?

1111

[quote]squatbenchhench wrote:

[quote]jbpick86 wrote:

The people of Palestine have a voting record that would disagree with you. The majority of Pro-Palestine Palestinians favor Hamas. That is a fact backed by their own voting records. The Pro-Palestinian supporters around the world seem to forget this fact.
[/quote]

If this was what happened to your land, what stance would you have towards the people doing it: http://www.jimmo.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/palestine-israel.jpg

Its like a bullied kid shouting at their bully ‘I am going to kill you’ after the bully had just broken both the kids legs.

Does the kid saying it make the bully right to break the kids legs because the kid responds by threatening murder?
[/quote]

Another flawed analogy. Your batting 1.000 on total failure to have a sensible opinion. Keep going. I know you can keep it up.

1112

[quote]ScholesGoals wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]squatbenchhench wrote:

…Hamas only call for violence because the Israelis will not give a fair two state solution through peaceful negotiations…

[/quote]
[/quote]

Your posts are really childish. I disagree with squatbenchhench but your constant off topic posts do absoloutley nothing. This is an online forum full of adults, would it be too much trouble to act accordingly?

[/quote]

To be fair to push, most of squats stuff is total garbage without basis in any type of sensible opinion. I think I have hit my limit in arguing with the moron. At least you address the issues presented when you speak. I think you are wrong on most of it, no offense, but that’s all someone can ask is for the person they are debating to address the issues. Squat has an agenda and will continue to parrot the same non-sensical narrative with no real self thought.

1113

[quote]Jewbacca wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]Liv92 wrote:
Fuck israel and fuck the jews.
They’re corrupting Christians morals in America and Europe through media propoganda (race mixing, faggotry, rap music, gang related, ect)
While they attack the Muslims head with brute force through their military or ours. Why do you think the US has had its nose stuck in the middle east for so long… please have a look at this

http://www.dailystormer.com/comprehensive-lists-of-the-jews-who-dominate-us/

too conspiracy - ish for you fellas at tnation?[/quote]

I appreciate the honesty. This is what they really think. This young man has the courage to speak for them all instead of standing on the corpses of dead Palestinians crying foul and trying to sound reasonable. It’s good old fashion hatred and nothing more.
This guy has not said a damn thing the Palestinians and their elected representatives have not said themselves, plainly, clearly, and loudly.

Indeed fuck the Jews. Kill them all, let the streets run red with Jew blood. Isn’t this really the truth of the matter? Of course it is.
And people wonder why Israel “overreacts”. [/quote]

You know, Liv92, I appreciate your honest hatred, too.

The bravery to just put the hate out there is like a breath of fresh air compared to your fellow travelers here who try to make their hate respectable by tying themselves up in rhetorical knots and convoluted lies.

In fact, your honest hatred has already made a difference.

There was a bum today outside the subway who shouted “Joooo” and pointed as I got on. I had already read your post this AM during breakfast.

I had been taking a town car to work the past month because of the inevitable increase in loonies that come out any time we Jews dare to resist getting into whatever cattle car the latest crop of Haman-wannabes have planned for us, but my usual driver is sick, so I went for the subway.

Well, when he screamed “Jooo” and pointed, it made me smile. Yes, I am a Jew. Yes, I serve G-d. Yes, I would like to bring G-d to all the world. I am not ashamed of that, and I am not scared.

I just smiled, thanked him, and shook his hand. He stopped screaming.

So, yes, Liv92, I am a Jew. Big beard, black hat, clipped dick; the works.

And, as a Jew-of-Jews, I assure you, there is no grand conspiracy to do whatever.

I’m just a guy who goes to work 6 days a week, works outs a lot, and loves his wife and kids. Today I went to work with formula spit up on my suit and mismatched socks. My shoulder is fucking killing me because I benched with my elbows out. I couldn’t sleep and am so beat I took a 7 year old Provigil to make it through the day that I found at the bottom of the medicine cabinet. In short, I’m basically a lot like you, with a beard and a monotone wardrobe.

So, anyway, thank you again for your honest, straightforward, hate.

You are much more of a brave and honest person than the others here, and, candidly, if we could get through the whole “take over the world” thing, could enjoy a beer together.[/quote]

We have our disagreements, but I liked this post and I commend it. I would not say that anti-Semitism is the principle fore behind the Left’s Israel thing–I think it’s got more to do with poor brown people being infallible–but I certainly wouldn’t deny it a role.

1115

[quote]ScholesGoals wrote:

[quote]csulli wrote:

[quote]lou21 wrote:
Nothing to do with the persistent killing of civilians? Are you sure?
[/quote]
No. Actually for the majority of libs around my age I think it has the most to do with simply being trendily contrarian. They dislike Israel so they can be different from the stupid right who doesn’t. It’s obvious to side with Israel so by not doing so they de facto must have some super smart and interesting reason that sets them apart as a special snowflake. It’s just political hipsterism.[/quote]
I disagree, I think it is the terrible politics of the left today that instantly supports muslims in order to get lefty browny points. Alot of leftists really believe Israel is somehow worse than any other state, they support Hamas resistance in ways they would never support non muslims.

This in my opinion is due to the working class movement going from labour based and based in the working class to middle class white university students who have no links to the working class, who adopt identity politics and privellege theory.

I was banned from the largest leftist forum for being sexist, being a rape apologist, being a zionist and reinforcing racism by supporting stand up comedians who tell jokes that are not politically correct.

It is a new phenomena amongst mainly American leftists where they have traded in any real analysis of economics or imperialism or real world situations and adopt issues that require the least effort and are the most impressive to other uni kids in that particular political ghetto.

It’s mostly an online phenomena. I don’t know many left wingers in real life involved in any groups I know who have this super sensitive whiney persona.
[/quote]
Great post.

I don’t even see this as much of a disagreement. Holding an opinion by default for the lefty brownie points is something I would more or less equate with holding an opinion just to be different than your opponents on the right. It’s all about fitting in with your group and alienating the other side.

I’m guessing you were banned because people couldn’t be asked to think hard enough to dispute the things you were saying that didn’t fit into the usual echo chamber lol.

1116

[quote]jbpick86 wrote:

[quote]ScholesGoals wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]squatbenchhench wrote:

…Hamas only call for violence because the Israelis will not give a fair two state solution through peaceful negotiations…

[/quote]
[/quote]

Your posts are really childish. I disagree with squatbenchhench but your constant off topic posts do absoloutley nothing. This is an online forum full of adults, would it be too much trouble to act accordingly?

[/quote]

To be fair to push, most of squats stuff is total garbage without basis in any type of sensible opinion. I think I have hit my limit in arguing with the moron. At least you address the issues presented when you speak. I think you are wrong on most of it, no offense, but that’s all someone can ask is for the person they are debating to address the issues. Squat has an agenda and will continue to parrot the same non-sensical narrative with no real self thought. [/quote]

And it isn’t like Push hasn’t had this conversation on this board a few times.

At this point, it is really hard to take much of this thread serious, which is why I’ve actually started posting in it. People here have openly admitted to ignoring things they don’t want to hear and it is basically a farce, so Push’s posts are actually on topic.

1117

At squatbenchhench:

You are just paraphrasing things you have read. It wont do. You have to process it and then present your own thoughts. Now you are just a Ninja warrior. Palestinians are not noble savages, jews are not an ancient lizard race. When you present something that you yourself has chewed you can get a good debate going on.

1118

You know, reading this thread makes me realize that with some, like Liv92, can’t be reasoned with. No amount of land/money/concessions/peace would be enough. Some just hate and want to kill. Answer? Simple. Kill them first.

Death to Hamas. Where do I send my check?

1119

we need a clarification or may be it is just me

Left = ???

Right equals = kick ass , socially non empathetic ?

1120

No.

Left= Pro-Humas.

Right= Pro Israel.

Simple PB