Escalation in Israel II

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
161

[quote]lou21 wrote:

[quote]Gkhan wrote:
Once again:

I am speaking about the second Second Intifada between 2000-2005.

from Wikipedia: “A campaign of suicide bombings and terrorist attacks began on September 29, 2000 and within five years left over 1,068 Israelis dead and over 7,000 injuredÃ?¢??69 percent of them civilians. Approximately 3,000 Palestinians were also killed in this conflict.” [/quote]

700,000 Palestinians were displaced in 1947/1948. 1600 Palestinians have been killed in Gaza in the last month.[/quote]

Once again:

I am speaking about the second Second Intifada between 2000-2005.

from Wikipedia: "A campaign of suicide bombings and terrorist attacks began on September 29, 2000 and within five years left over 1,068 Israelis dead and over 7,000 injuredâ??69 percent of them civilians. Approximately 3,000 Palestinians were also killed in this conflict.

162

OK, now that we’ve discussed the futility and danger of espousing old conspiracy theories of word-wide Jewish collusion to eliminate white people and culture maybe we can go back to the point of the thread. Liv92, I recommend you either stay silent or admit to succumbing to propaganda you weren’t prepared to handle. Do what you want but it’s not going to end well for you if you keep it up.

I see a new 72-hour cease fire has been agreed to starting Tuesday morning, which I thought was a typo at first because it was so similar to the previous one that was violated. Is there any reason to believe this one will be successful?

Has Israel been productive enough to call their recent operations a success? By productive I mean hurting Hamas’ ability to operate and launch attacks. From Hamas’ perspective, it seems like the success they’ve had is draining Israel financially (the cost to launch their crude rockets is many factors less than Israel’s cost to intercept them), increasing antisemitic attitudes in Europe, and some PR success depending on who you’re asking/reading.

164

[quote]Liv92 wrote:

[quote]Jewbacca wrote:

[quote]Liv92 wrote:

[quote]Jewbacca wrote:

[quote]Liv92 wrote:

Whatever doood, I was born in Italy but I am of Albanian descent. Spoke Albanian at home, Italian everywhere else. [/quote]

Well, that explains your love of the genocidal arabs in Gaza and your willingness to lie about what is going on.

For those who don’t know, the muslims of Albania were allied with the Nazis in WWII. Some of the most vicious killers. In fact, you can see in this picture the Grand Mufti of the Jerusalem inspected the 21st Waffen Mountain Division of the SS Skanderbeg (1st Albanian).

They kept it up until today; ask the Serbs.

Which one is grandpa?[/quote]

What have I lied about?
Nice to see your real side come out, I bet you couldn’t restrain yourself from the excitement. Lol and the Serbs really? You’re a fool. Pretty sure the US and nato were helping Albania against the Serbs. [/quote]

Yes, Clinton was on the wrong side of that, to the extent there was a right side.

I note the article says the Albanians were useless in fighting but really good at raping and killing. Pretty much the same today.

So, which one was grandpa?
[/quote]

I would of said the same about the joos but they didn’t even have a military till after ww2. They’re committing the rape, murder, and genocide now with a military they didn’t acquire, but one that was given by the gentiles hard work.

As of Albanians, they are a smart, small, hard working nation, that doesn’t receive any aid from anyone, and are still producing their own expanding economy, that was non existent almost thanks to communism. Which btw was invented by a jew as I’m sure you know.

P.s most Albanians that commit crimes are the ones that don’t even appear to be white and look more arabic/turkish. [/quote]

Right, because national conscription, superb esprit de corps and training, and a prosperous domestic economy do not serve as the foundation of the most professional military in the region.

Albania received $300 million in foreign aid from the U.S. alone from 1991 through fiscal year 1998.

Not only are you a bigot, but a bigot ignorant of basic international affairs.

165

Albania the superpower! GDP = 13 billion! One day they’ll overtake Afghanistan I bet! And they don’t take aid from anyone!

"Since fiscal year 1991, the U.S. has provided Albania with more than $616 million in assistance,[5] not counting Foreign Agricultural Service food aid. In 2007, the U.S. gave over $21.1 million to Albania under the Support for East European Democracy Act program. "

167

One view of the future. Enjoy the work of Google translator:

Israel / Palestine Conflict

“Hamas is facing decisions that will affect us all”

Ramallah. If the ceasefire is himself is a keen interest to be directed against Hamas political choices, which will be crucial for Gaza and Palestine question future.

If the ceasefire is himself is a keen interest to be directed against Hamas political choices, which will be crucial for Gaza and Palestine question future.

The less we know about a regime of the wilder speculations abound. Kremlologins allure was its minimal underlying reality.

  • Hamas ajar never forgiven the enclosed room where the big decisions are made.

It says Saji Salame, a researcher with refugees as a specialty. His family has a great influence in Ramallah in the West Bank, even though they are refugees, born from Haifa in northern Israel. His mother stood as a presidential candidate in 1996 against Yasir Arafat. We meet him at the Palestinian refugee ministry in El Bireh, near the Israeli colony of Beit El.

Salame has studied Hamas long and tense on the future:

  • Hamas faces a couple of decisions that will affect us all.

First of all, says Salame, Hamas must choose how to present what has happened - both to his supporters, and facing Gazans. If the message is “We are heroes, we have won and President Abbas and all who do not resist are weaklings”, then it is bad news.

Why is that?

  • Because the only good thing that this nightmare can lead to the Palestinian entity and unity.

How should Hamas explain what happened?

  • It should say, “We tried to open the borders, but we can not do it without the other Palestinians.”

If Hamas, however, choose to continue the armed struggle against Israel will crack the prospects for cooperation with Abbas. This would also be the best solution for the Israeli nationalists, who now fear that the Gaza crisis will result in peace negotiations. Hamas understands all of this? Can they overcome their impulses and pursue realpolitik?

  • There is evidence to suggest it. First, Hamas ended up all wrong. It was folly to several weeks reject Egypt’s negotiating initiative, which was the only realistic - Egyptians had decided to shoot down all other proposals. But now that Hamas has agreed to be part of a PLO delegation, to let Abbas conduct its proceedings and submit Hamas claims that their facing Egypt and Israel, it is artful.

Since Hamas took power in Gaza 2006-2007, the movement has increasingly been drawn into the hateful everyday problems: salaries, budgets, employment:

  • Hamas would now be able to do as Hezbollah in Lebanon in 2006 after the war with Israel - stop shooting but save their missiles and controlling Lebanon’s politics without worrying about administration and management, says Salame.

But who will take care of the daily grind?

  • President Abbas and the Palestinian Authority. Let him ackordera with donor countries, let him negotiate with Israel and Egypt, they will still never give Hamas anything free.

There are major differences within Hamas, says Saji. Exile leader Khaled Mashals words recently, that coexistence with the Jews is conceivable if the occupation ends, did not fall all on the lip. Many people who outwardly appear to be fanatics realize that the only path to a Palestinian state is political.

How important is public support for Hamas choices now?

  • Extremely important. The shock of Gaza is indescribable. The great indignation is directed against Israel, but soon the issue will be addressed to Hamas: What have you done? The only answer to that question is massive reconstruction. The only way forward is via Abbas and Egypt.
168

[quote]Liv92 wrote:

[quote]Jewbacca wrote:

[quote]Liv92 wrote:

[quote]Jewbacca wrote:

[quote]Liv92 wrote:

Whatever doood, I was born in Italy but I am of Albanian descent. Spoke Albanian at home, Italian everywhere else. [/quote]

Well, that explains your love of the genocidal arabs in Gaza and your willingness to lie about what is going on.

For those who don’t know, the muslims of Albania were allied with the Nazis in WWII. Some of the most vicious killers. In fact, you can see in this picture the Grand Mufti of the Jerusalem inspected the 21st Waffen Mountain Division of the SS Skanderbeg (1st Albanian).

They kept it up until today; ask the Serbs.

Which one is grandpa?[/quote]

What have I lied about?
Nice to see your real side come out, I bet you couldn’t restrain yourself from the excitement. Lol and the Serbs really? You’re a fool. Pretty sure the US and nato were helping Albania against the Serbs. [/quote]

Yes, Clinton was on the wrong side of that, to the extent there was a right side.

I note the article says the Albanians were useless in fighting but really good at raping and killing. Pretty much the same today.

So, which one was grandpa?
[/quote]

I would of said the same about the joos but they didn’t even have a military till after ww2. They’re committing the rape, murder, and genocide now with a military they didn’t acquire, but one that was given by the gentiles hard work.

As of Albanians, they are a smart, small, hard working nation, that doesn’t receive any aid from anyone, and are still producing their own expanding economy, that was non existent almost thanks to communism. Which btw was invented by a jew as I’m sure you know.

P.s most Albanians that commit crimes are the ones that don’t even appear to be white and look more arabic/turkish. [/quote]
This is just pitiful now lol.

169

[quote]kaaleppi wrote:
One view of the future. Enjoy the work of Google translator:

Israel / Palestine Conflict

“Hamas is facing decisions that will affect us all”

…
How important is public support for Hamas choices now?

  • Extremely important. The shock of Gaza is indescribable. The great indignation is directed against Israel, but soon the issue will be addressed to Hamas: What have you done? The only answer to that question is massive reconstruction. The only way forward is via Abbas and Egypt. [/quote]

Extraordinary. Having lost for its civilians a war that it baited, Hamas is now spinning this as a great opportunity to rebuild…to rebuild with whose concrete and electricity? With Abbas and Egypt who have been remarkably uninvolved in the Hamas escapade?

What is even more telling is that this nonsense is being eaten up by Euormedia and our friends in Europe.

How about a different view of “what Hamas wants?”

"Hamas is an organization devoted to ending Jewish history. This is what so many Jews understand, and what so many non-Jews donâ??t. The novelist Amos Oz, who has led Israel’s left-wing peace camp for decades, said in an interview last week that he doesn’t see a prospect for compromise between Israel and Hamas. “I have been a man of compromise all my life,” Oz said. “But even a man of compromise cannot approach Hamas and say: ‘Maybe we meet halfway and Israel only exists on Mondays, Wednesdays and Fridays.’”

As for Jimmy Carter, and his opinions, do we choose to ignore the rant of a sickened mind, or pity it?

171

[quote]DrSkeptix wrote:

Extraordinary. Having lost for its civilians a war that it baited, Hamas is now spinning this as a great opportunity to rebuild…to rebuild with whose concrete and electricity? With Abbas and Egypt who have been remarkably uninvolved in the Hamas escapade?

What is even more telling is that this nonsense is being eaten up by Euormedia and our friends in Europe.

[/quote]

What a luck we have US standing united, as one nation on this point, or any point :slight_smile:

173

[quote]kaaleppi wrote:

[quote]DrSkeptix wrote:

Extraordinary. Having lost for its civilians a war that it baited, Hamas is now spinning this as a great opportunity to rebuild…to rebuild with whose concrete and electricity? With Abbas and Egypt who have been remarkably uninvolved in the Hamas escapade?

What is even more telling is that this nonsense is being eaten up by Euormedia and our friends in Europe.

[/quote]

What a luck we have US standing united, as one nation on this point, or any point :)[/quote]

Understood.
The US is never of one opinion; that is our luck.
But the European press is really in another category of gullibility.

174

[quote]DrSkeptix wrote:

[quote]kaaleppi wrote:

[quote]DrSkeptix wrote:

Extraordinary. Having lost for its civilians a war that it baited, Hamas is now spinning this as a great opportunity to rebuild…to rebuild with whose concrete and electricity? With Abbas and Egypt who have been remarkably uninvolved in the Hamas escapade?

What is even more telling is that this nonsense is being eaten up by Euormedia and our friends in Europe.

[/quote]

What a luck we have US standing united, as one nation on this point, or any point :)[/quote]

Understood.
The US is never of one opinion; that is our luck.
But the European press is really in another category of gullibility.
[/quote]

Now you made me curious. What papers do you base your opinion on?

175

[quote]pushharder wrote:
^ Fantastic quantities of explosives were stored in every tunnel, meant to be used in a mega-attack on civilian communities and infrastructure.

Read more: Stories From The Battlefield: Hamas Tunnels Used To Target Israel’s Kindergartens | The Daily Caller

So Israel’s the bad guy, huh?

Stories From The Battlefield: Hamas Tunnels Used To Target Israelâ??s Kindergartens

"…The attack was meant to generate as many as ten thousand casualties, men, women and particularly children and hundreds of captives. Explosives were particularly placed underneath kindergartens to make certain that these â??institutionsâ?? would be the first struck, even before any thing else.

"…Unbelievably, Kerry actually proposed in his latest â??cease-fire proposalâ?? â?? none of which have been honored by Hamas so far â?? that Israel refrains from degrading remaining attack tunnels. This mind-boggling concept would necessarily be rejected by any sane government, of any country.

"…this sophistication and know-how is being copied right now by Mexico-based Hezbollah agents along the Southern US border.

Good grief, I’m ready to buy and wear a “Bomb Hamas” t-shirt.
[/quote]

I think IDF said they didn’t have to use that heavy ammunition. Hamas kind of arranged the big explosion part.

176

[quote]kaaleppi wrote:

[quote]DrSkeptix wrote:

[quote]kaaleppi wrote:

[quote]DrSkeptix wrote:

Extraordinary. Having lost for its civilians a war that it baited, Hamas is now spinning this as a great opportunity to rebuild…to rebuild with whose concrete and electricity? With Abbas and Egypt who have been remarkably uninvolved in the Hamas escapade?

What is even more telling is that this nonsense is being eaten up by Euormedia and our friends in Europe.

[/quote]

What a luck we have US standing united, as one nation on this point, or any point :)[/quote]

Understood.
The US is never of one opinion; that is our luck.
But the European press is really in another category of gullibility.
[/quote]

Now you made me curious. What papers do you base your opinion on? [/quote]

I access various websites which simply devote themselves to skepticism of reporting, and search out poor reports, questionable “facts” and sources–often reviewing events days and weeks later.

I do not have your language skills, to my envy and embarrassment. I will retract my general criticism of Euromedia, because my access to it so narrow.

Notoriously poor or biased reporting is rife in the BBC (yes, I said it), the Guardian, Le Monde (allowing for my lost French). But I do not laud the American press, either. The best fact checking seems to be in the Wall Street Journal. The New York Times and Washington Post occupy some other world than reality; they have lost the capacity for critical reason.

177

[quote]DrSkeptix wrote:

I access various websites which simply devote themselves to skepticism of reporting, and search out poor reports, questionable “facts” and sources–often reviewing events days and weeks later.

I do not have your language skills, to my envy and embarrassment. I will retract my general criticism of Euromedia, because my access to it so narrow.

Notoriously poor or biased reporting is rife in the BBC (yes, I said it), the Guardian, Le Monde (allowing for my lost French). But I do not laud the American press, either. The best fact checking seems to be in the Wall Street Journal. The New York Times and Washington Post occupy some other world than reality; they have lost the capacity for critical reason.

[/quote]

Thank you for the kind words. What are language skills, though? There are many levels for different needs. But passively I can understand several languages, that is true.

I think the deterioration of quality of journalism is an international phenomenon and the original cause for that process stands here right between our keyboards. Diminishing revenues leads to fewer journalists with less time for individual articles. The problem is the same both on local and national level.

This also “forces” publishers to think in target groups, both real and perceived. In olden days newspapers were more clearly politically affiliated. They wrote about politics, not so much to make targetgroups happy. And what was crucial, the journalist was really given time to spend on a single subject. Time and a telephone, not google.

It doesn’t really matter which papers you read, the international news and oddities plus science news are the same news agency stuff everywhere…

178

But some papers still do have quality commentary sections that are worth reading. They have had time to think what they want to say.

180

[quote]DrSkeptix wrote:

[quote]kaaleppi wrote:

[quote]DrSkeptix wrote:

But the European press is really in another category of gullibility.
[/quote]

Now you made me curious. What papers do you base your opinion on? [/quote]

I access various websites which simply devote themselves to skepticism of reporting, and search out poor reports, questionable “facts” and sources–often reviewing events days and weeks later.

I do not have your language skills, to my envy and embarrassment. I will retract my general criticism of Euromedia, because my access to it so narrow.

Notoriously poor or biased reporting is rife in the BBC (yes, I said it), the Guardian, Le Monde (allowing for my lost French). But I do not laud the American press, either. The best fact checking seems to be in the Wall Street Journal. The New York Times and Washington Post occupy some other world than reality; they have lost the capacity for critical reason.

[/quote]

Just a point of interest here. The BBC is regarded as very pro-Israel in its stance by the pro-Palestinian camp here in the UK - to the extent that protests have been held outside the BBC headquarters nearly as often as outside the Israeli embassy. I’m not sure where they stand myself. I suspect that as with every institution in the UK they are very divided on the issue.

I guess you will be very upset to note that the likes of the Telegraph and the Daily Fail (I mean Daily Mail) seem to have turned somewhat more neutral (even leaning heavily against the Israeli right recently).

I guess it’s because even for a pro-Israeli the latest war and the rhetoric of the Israeli right seem to be a gross miscalculation (e.g. Israel has won the tunnel war, but lost the propaganda battle to Hamas).