EPISTEMOLOGY: The Key to Everything

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
641

[quote]KingKai25 wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:<<< Basically you’re jealous that truth can come from somewhere else besides Farmer Van Til. I understand why you don’t understand why the Body of Christ has used Aristotle’s metaphysics, the only problem is I don’t know how to explain it to you any other way that I haven’t already tried. [/quote]Christopher, you are not living up to your avatar. Substance please? I know EXACTLY why Rome has adopted Aristotle’s unbelieving epistemology.
[/quote]

Adopted? You show your hand too early. [/quote]

What word would you use besides adopted? [/quote]

Adopted would mean that it is considered revelation in a way or that he is some kind of pre or protoECF or a better term that it is our new holy language (logic for you Tirib) such as that Latin was adopted as our Holy Tongue. Christianized is a better term. Particularly because of the fact that its use is, not purely, rather utilitarian in the aspect that it was and is used to prove the truths of the faith in a common language (particularly by the Moslems in the European Universities), though with modern philosophy it seems that Aristotle’s metaphysics is becoming rather obsolete.

This is a challenge that we’re finding in the Church when it comes to post-modernism (that many Greats have stood up and accepted the challenge by the Grace of God) and places such as Southern India when it comes to explaining the truths of the faith.

642

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
Custodial care?
[/quote]

Too broad, we have custodial care of all knowledge, whether it be to perserve falsehoods so that we can learn from them so as not to repeat them.

643

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:<<< Too broad, we have custodial care of all <<<>>> falsehoods >>>[/quote]Is this the explanation for the church’s wholly untenable interpretation of Romans 2:14-15? You’re supposed to chuckle a little now Chris at my clever lighthearted jab and jab me back unbothered because you know I’m wrong. Not get all huffy n puffy because I might be right.

644

Your senses are here on earth. They are meant to discover facts about the physical world, on earth.

Therefore knowledge of god through the senses is not possible.

645

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
Your senses are here on earth. They are meant to discover facts about the physical world, on earth.

Therefore knowledge of god through the senses is not possible.[/quote]God is everywhere, including here on earth. The senses are part of His creation and in the case of humans are governed by a soul created in His image. Therefore, avoiding God with your senses is impossible.

646

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
Your senses are here on earth. They are meant to discover facts about the physical world, on earth.

Therefore knowledge of god through the senses is not possible.[/quote]God is everywhere, including here on earth. The senses are part of His creation and in the case of humans are governed by a soul created in His image. Therefore, avoiding God with your senses is impossible.
[/quote]

Your senses can’t give you knowledge of universals. Universals are a construct from similarities we observe. They are a human invention.

How does one therefore form the universal, God? What is god similar to?

647

[quote]Headhunter wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
Your senses are here on earth. They are meant to discover facts about the physical world, on earth.

Therefore knowledge of god through the senses is not possible.[/quote]God is everywhere, including here on earth. The senses are part of His creation and in the case of humans are governed by a soul created in His image. Therefore, avoiding God with your senses is impossible.
[/quote]

Your senses can’t give you knowledge of universals. Universals are a construct from similarities we observe. They are a human invention.

How does one therefore form the universal, God? What is god similar to?
[/quote]Looky here boys n girls. I knew it all along. I knew ol HeadHunter was capable of meaningful substantive discussion. “Universals”, which, though not properly synonymous, is your word for certainty here. Universals, certainty, is taken wholly by faith. By you AND by me. The only difference is what in. And that difference actually exists only at the level conscious intention and deliberation. At the epistemological level we all, believers and unbelievers alike, operate on the same universals to use your word. We all start with the same source of certainty. The God who is the ground all being and the source of all knowledge. It is WHAT we are. We cannot help it.

I, as a born again member of God’s family have been given by grace the ability and desire to embrace that with love and gratitude. I was once like you. Dead in sin having been born from father Adam. Fleeing the very God I was ripping off in order to form even one coherent thought. I used every one of his glorious gifts against Him. He opened my heart to the heinousness of the crimes I had committed against His authority and person. He broke my heart. I gave it to Him. He made me new. Now I passionately embrace the God I once hated and ran from. I am praying for the same for you.

648

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]Headhunter wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
Your senses are here on earth. They are meant to discover facts about the physical world, on earth.

Therefore knowledge of god through the senses is not possible.[/quote]God is everywhere, including here on earth. The senses are part of His creation and in the case of humans are governed by a soul created in His image. Therefore, avoiding God with your senses is impossible.
[/quote]

Your senses can’t give you knowledge of universals. Universals are a construct from similarities we observe. They are a human invention.

How does one therefore form the universal, God? What is god similar to?
[/quote]Looky here boys n girls. I knew it all along. I knew ol HeadHunter was capable of meaningful substantive discussion. “Universals”, which, though not properly synonymous, is your word for certainty here. Universals, certainty, is taken wholly by faith. By you AND by me. The only difference is what in. And that difference actually exists only at the level conscious intention and deliberation. At the epistemological level we all, believers and unbelievers alike, operate on the same universals to use your word. We all start with the same source of certainty. The God who is the ground all being and the source of all knowledge. It is WHAT we are. We cannot help it.

I, as a born again member of God’s family have been given by grace the ability and desire to embrace that with love and gratitude. I was once like you. Dead in sin having been born from father Adam. Fleeing the very God I was ripping off in order to form even one coherent thought. I used every one of his glorious gifts against Him. He opened my heart to the heinousness of the crimes I had committed against His authority and person. He broke my heart. I gave it to Him. He made me new. Now I passionately embrace the God I once hated and ran from. I am praying for the same for you.
[/quote]

I see many objects having very similar properties – these objects walk, talk, sleep, shit, and so forth. Because they are so similar, I form the universal concept ‘Man’ and assign this tag to all objects fitting the description given. This is how humans think, forming concepts.

Now tell, guru, how do we similarly form the concept ‘God’? There’s only one, right? Yet I form concepts from similarity. Where are the other gods, so I can form the concept ‘god’?

649

[quote]Headhunter wrote:<< Now tell, guru, how do we similarly form the concept ‘God’? >>>[/quote]We don’t form that concept. We are created, conceived, born, live, think, speak, walk, breathe, and die IN IT. The concept we form is designed to escape it. It never works.

650

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]Headhunter wrote:<< Now tell, guru, how do we similarly form the concept ‘God’? >>>[/quote]We don’t form that concept. We are created, conceived, born, live, think, speak, walk, breathe, and die IN IT. The concept we form is designed to escape it. It never works.
[/quote]

This thread is about epi, how we know what we know. Faith is the acceptance of a concept that didn’t go through the process of how humans think.

Faith is simply a short-circuit, destroying the mind.

651

[quote]Headhunter wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]Headhunter wrote:<< Now tell, guru, how do we similarly form the concept ‘God’? >>>[/quote]We don’t form that concept. We are created, conceived, born, live, think, speak, walk, breathe, and die IN IT. The concept we form is designed to escape it. It never works.
[/quote]

This thread is about epi, how we know what we know. Faith is the acceptance of a concept that didn’t go through the process of how humans think.

Faith is simply a short-circuit, destroying the mind.
[/quote]Your mind operates on and is fueled entirely by faith my friend. Epistemology is that by definition unprovable first principle from which every other thought arises and by which they are governed. Elder Forlife settled on pure skepticism once this became inescapably apparent to him. There are others around here like him. They live in direct pragmatic contradiction to what they declare with their mouths. You are the inverse of Elder Forlife. You claim to have certainty just because you like it that way. See because by denying the validity of faith you by necessary consequence are affirming the objective certainty of your views. The latter MUST follow from the former if even the appearance of consistency (which is all it is) is to be maintained.

Unless you know everything you can’t know anything for sure because something you don’t know may potentially change everything you do. Ya jist don’t know do ya? Where is your faith pointed? It’s pointed at yourself. A very unreliable source of anything. Mine is pointed at a God who DOES know everything. He informs me on a need to know basis. The rest I confidently leave to Him . I wouldn’t understand what He doesn’t tell me anyway.

652

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]Headhunter wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]Headhunter wrote:<< Now tell, guru, how do we similarly form the concept ‘God’? >>>[/quote]We don’t form that concept. We are created, conceived, born, live, think, speak, walk, breathe, and die IN IT. The concept we form is designed to escape it. It never works.
[/quote]

This thread is about epi, how we know what we know. Faith is the acceptance of a concept that didn’t go through the process of how humans think.

Faith is simply a short-circuit, destroying the mind.
[/quote] Where is your faith pointed? It’s pointed at yourself. A very unreliable source of anything. Mine is pointed at a God who DOES know everything. He informs me on a need to know basis. The rest I confidently leave to Him . I wouldn’t understand what He doesn’t tell me anyway.
[/quote]

So…you used your mind, your ‘unreliable’ self as you put it, to decide that your mind is incompetent to know.

Hmmm…contradiction much…mind is unreliable…so will use this mind to know god…because it is unreliabe…

but God is reliable…and I decided that with my…unreliable…mind…

It is getting close to the Bert Stare time again.

653

My mind worked (or didn’t) just like yours before I was raised in Christ from death to life. My mind became reliable when it became His. I didn’t do it and in fact couldn’t have. Dead men don’t raise themselves.