This answer will be different for everyone, some can tolerate almost any ratio. Typically healthy young natural men will see estrogen <35 and testosterone high normal, obese men will see estrogen higher and testosterone lower ~ estrogen dominance.
I like the 15-25:1 theory where there is 15-25 of T for every 1 of E2. Seems to be a better method than E2 needs to be 22 that was espoused throughout the forum’s old testament by the previous lord and savior. That method had me chasing hell for quite a while.
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Fearless Lord and Kasman ?
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I’m not taking any AI’s… my diet is super clean for the last 60 days. I’m not bloating anywhere except for my stomach. My waist measures 41 1/8" and it will not go lower. Is this an Estrogen or Estradiol issue?
Would an AI stop the bloating? Never had any bloating issues in my life until TRT.
This happened to me, slowly at first because I was iron deficient and my gut became inflamed which lead to a potassium deficiency and eventually all bowel movements stopped, urination all but stopped.
The bloating could be poor gut health, something few consider the cause for bloating.
So, just to give an update. My PCP referred me to an Endocrinologist. Now, mind you… I found out this Endo is 79 years old. He asked me what my concerns were… and I said my E2 is high. He said what is your Test score? I said around 1,600. He said… how much are you injecting weekly? I said 25mg. lol because I have to say the prescription dose. lol He looked at me like I was crazy. I said ok doctor… I’ve been injecting more because 25mg will do more harm than good. Because I need at least 100mg weekly just to stay sane. Again, he just looked at me funny.
He said… here’s what I want you to do. I want you to stop injecting for 21 days. On the 22nd day I’m going to test everything… Testosterone, E2, cholesterol… metabolic panel… everything. I want to see how “natural” your body is. I said… are you suggesting I don’t need TRT? He said… possibly. I said… this seems like a disaster waiting to happen. I said fine… if that’s what you want to see… so be it.
I’m on day 11 now from my last Test Shot… On day 8… I started waking up in the middle of the night after 3.5 - 4 hours of sleep… and I couldn’t go back to sleep. It’s been like this the past 3 nights. Erections have basically stopped On day 9. Well… let’s just say not 100% full ones.
Is this typical protocol in what an Endocrinologist does? This doesn’t seem right.
Did he not test you prior to starting TRT?
It’ll take your system a bit to get back up and running.
You will still be shutdown on day 21, there will still be exogenous testosterone in your system.
You have prior labs showing Free T below range, it seems you didn’t get two separate tests showing low numbers and this is why he wants to stop TRT with the intent to prove you don’t need it.
PCP diagnosed me with Low T. Free Test and Bioavailable were very low. Total Test just barely hit normal. My PCP doesn’t know how to really effectively treat Low T. Once I talked about high estrogen side effects… they ran blood… and it was confirmed… got the referral to the Endo. Unfortunately, this Endo is 79 years old… and he honestly doesn’t check blood work/paperwork etc. He expects you to do everything. So, everything is based on verbal communication. Just an odd first session.
Numbers of Free, Bio, and Total were all together. I have no idea what he’s looking for… except he gave me the impression he wants me off of TRT. And I had a few sour words for him before I left the appointment. I basically said listen… I spent this entire 2019 battling this condition… it was already confirmed. I have no issues if you want to fine tune it… but you aren’t taking me off of it.
I already have the blood work document approved by him. I can use this to test any date I desire. Naturally, I’d like to confirm a matching date with my Endo… but if he wants to play games? So be it. When do you think I should get tested clean??? 4 weeks? 5 weeks? Because I will call up his assistants… and change my appointment. Currently I’m supposed to draw blood work on Tuesday August 13 and my appointment to see him is August 20. For some reason they send all the lab work across the United States to California to be tested… and it takes a full 5 business days for me to get any results of Testosterone Levels. I have no idea why they do it this way? But like I said… any advice is greatly appreciated. I probably won’t be able to win either way with him… but my insurance is covering it.
Does anyone have any idea when the body has insufficient testosterone… you get these quick bursts of rapid energy after sleeping for like 4 hours? My body does this like clockwork. There’s nothing I can do to prevent it.
But, when I was injecting and on TRT… I would sleep like a baby. If I woke up to go to the bathroom… I’d fall right back to sleep within minutes. This blows my mind.
Bravo, you basically shut him down. I’ll never understand all the negativity that some doctors seem to have towards TRT, they could care less about you symptoms and just seem uncaring and inhuman.
It could take longer, it’s anyone’s guess.
0,25 adex every day is still way too much, i crash on 0,25 mg every 84 hours that is when i take my shots of 70 mg, you might need microdosing, never heard of adex dossolved in vodka??? That is what i do, so i only take 0,05 or 0,045 mg on each T shot and i manage to get it to 30 pg range, also you did not get blood on 100 mg per week or did you?? I understand you got labs on over 170 mg per week
I mean the whole purpose of trt is having T levels on the high normal range y do fine on 9 ng/ml of total test, every other parameter is fine, hemoglobine, hematocrit, kidney, thyroid, RBC.
No need to have absurd numbers like over 12 ng (1200 ng/dl) that is not trt that is a cycle imo
Thank you for the input. I agree with what you’re saying 100%. After being diagnosed with Low T and having my PCP write a prescription for 25 mg of Test Cyp weekly… and taking in all the information on Low T boards… I knew it was a very low dose. Probably would of did more harm than good. That’s why I increased the dosage and… it was more or less trial and error. I didn’t know the E2 would get out of control? There’s no question it has to be balanced. Since I had insurance… I was hoping this could be all fine tuned… by this Endocrinologist I’m seeing. We’ll soon find out.
What I have noticed WITHOUT TAKING MY SHOT now for the last 13 days. The negative side effects are practically gone. I was experiencing a HOT SPELL at times. Like an intense HEAT feeling out in the sun. Throughout my entire life (WITHOUT TESTOSTERONE) I never had an overheating issue… or dehydration issue. In fact… I’m more the kind of personality that says… bring the heat on. I could sit in a sauna for an hour… with no issues. So, my point being… I don’t know what the imbalance was while injecting Test? I don’t know if the spike in E2 caused this? I don’t know if the elevated Test numbers caused this? It’s unknown at the moment. Whatever imbalance I had… that part of it… I didn’t like. I used to be a person who would do indoor tanning… with no issues before. I didn’t like tanning while injecting Testosterone. It’s just an odd “HEAT” feeling. Not normal.
I’ve learned a lot from reading these boards… and if I had to treat out of pocket… I would. Of course… it would get expensive… because of all the blood tests monthly… to fine tune it at first. I want my E2 at a perfect range. Naturally, I want my Testosterone at a perfect range. These doctors are a$$holes… it’s like they don’t even know how to grade the perfect score.
I’m 100% convinced that Low T leads to mental disorders. So, are we going to wait around to die? Or are we going to do something about it? To help prevent it?
Like I said… I’m patiently using the year 2019 as trial and error. I’m taking notes. I’m allowing these doctors to milk the insurance… and I’m watching the angles they are taking. I have another Endo lined up… I might make a few calls Monday or Tuesday. I’ll keep everyone posted.
I´m finding out that reducing HCG is making me look a lot less bloated and overall feeling has improved, libido and muscle tone.
Just wanted to update the thread. 21 full days without Test Cyp injection. My endocrinologist wanted to see these results for his own eyes. I will just list a few of the results… did full scale testing.
Total Testosterone 207 ng/dL (Standard Range 330 - 1,188 ng/dL)
Estradiol 11 pg/mL (Standard Range 11 - 44 pg/mL)
TSH 4.24 uIU/mL (Standard Range 0.40 - 4.50 uIU/mL)
LH 0.1 mIU//mL (Standard Range 0.57 - 12.07 mIU/mL)
FSH < 0.5 mIU/mL (Standard Range 1.0 - 12.0 mIU/mL)
Prostate 0.85 ng/mL (Standard Range 0 - 2.5 ng/mL)
Hemoglobin 18.3 g/dL (Standard Range 13.6 - 17.6 g/dL)
Hematocrit 53.0% (Standard Range 40.0 - 50.0%)
I see my Endo Tuesday August 20… I wonder what he’s going to say? Remember… he said I looked healthy enough to be off of Testosterone.
What he SHOULD say is you require TRT. Clearly.
Also, what he SHOULD say is that “gee, I’m an idiot and should’ve run more testing on your thyroid”.
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This is why we have lab testing, no need to guess. TSH is very bad and I don’t care where thyroid hormones score, you have a thyroid problem. High TSH is similar to a screaming infant, something is wrong.