Reverse osmosis = Problem (mostly) solved.
I drink a gallon of tap water a day. Should I be worried?
[quote]Gregus wrote:
Okay, when you say that the only ingredient in rat poison is NaF, when most rat poison is really coumarin or coumarin derivatives, that NaF is the most toxic ionic substance next to potassium dichromate (HCl gas?, cyanide gas?, atomized phosphides?), and when you say Donald Rumsfeld pushed it off on consumers when he was CEO of Seerly (when you really mean Searle). You come across as a bit of a nutjob.
Seriously, we don’t NEED fluoridation, outside of toothpaste, and it costs money. We don’t need fluoridation and it might be a health hazard and/or is suspected as a causative agent in several diseases. No hype necessary.
The post did do a good thing.
I had never considered whether my birds – a Moluccan cockatoo and a blue-and-gold macaw – should be consuming fluoride or not. Just hadn’t occurred to me.
But since the matter is unstudied in birds, and parrots ought to live to be 70 or so, so it is not as if they would naturally be dying off early anyhow – I think clearly they should not.
Accordinly, I need to stop using tap water for them.
[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:
The post did do a good thing.
I had never considered whether my birds – a Moluccan cockatoo and a blue-and-gold macaw – should be consuming fluoride or not. Just hadn’t occurred to me.
But since the matter is unstudied in birds, and parrots ought to live to be 70 or so, so it is not as if they would naturally be dying off early anyhow – I think clearly they should not.
Accordinly, I need to stop using tap water for them.
[/quote]
Are you saying this thread is for the birds?
Or that the most useful part of this thread was considering effects of fluoride on your bird’s teeth?
Or more relevantly, What do you mean? An African Parrot or a European Parrot?
Neither… macaws are from South America, and Moluccan cockatoos are from Indonesia.
I was considering unknown potential effects on birds.
[quote]lucasa wrote:
Or more relevantly, What do you mean? An African Parrot or a European Parrot?
[/quote]
hah! ahem - are you suggesting that coconuts migrate? Monty Python Holy Grail Are you suggesting coconuts migrate? - YouTube
Birds are amazing. I’ve always wanted to get an African Grey.
[quote]skaz05 wrote:
I drink a gallon of tap water a day. Should I be worried?[/quote]
Well, either you get a sophisticated filter system - or, you yourself are the filer. And considering all the water all of us here probably drink, it’s worth it imo.
[quote]katzenjammer wrote:
lucasa wrote:
Or more relevantly, What do you mean? An African Parrot or a European Parrot?
hah! ahem - are you suggesting that coconuts migrate? Monty Python Holy Grail Are you suggesting coconuts migrate? - YouTube
Birds are amazing. I’ve always wanted to get an African Grey. [/quote]
Just as some additional information on that:
African Greys are notorious for generally not getting along with anyone in the family except one single person. Anyone else simply cannot handle the bird, or will get bit if they try (as a general but not invariable rule.)
They also don’t care for being petted. So if one likes one’s pet animals to like being petted, an African Grey will disappoint.
Actually most parrots aren’t big on it, but most are not as much against it as African greys are. Cockatoos however soak up affection, and macaws sometimes do.
However, on the flip side regarding cockatoos and macaws: They are exceedingly noisy and one really ought to have a safe enclosed outdoor place for them to spend much of the day and fly, as personal opinion, as it is boring for them to spend many hours per day in a cage with limited possible motion and limited things to do. (Or for those people that have them in a cage 23.5 hours out of every 24, that is just cruel IMO.)
That might really be true for African greys as well – perhaps it might cure their notorious unsociability with additional persons for all I know – but as I have not owned one, only known them, I cannot say on that point.
Lastly, while this really is a commentary on problems with human beings rather than with cockatoos, the figures are something like, over 90% of cockatoos lose their first home due to people deciding they don’t want them.
Dogs, cats, and other domestic animals have undergone thousands of generations of selective breeding which has included being able to acoomodate human behaviors that are really just completely inappropriate for animals and which would never work with any wild animal. They are not genetically the same as wild animals.
Parrots are genetically identical to the wild birds: indeed most are only first-generation domestic bred. Their responses therefore have not evolved towards human behaviors that are very bad for getting along with wild animals.
People tend to assume that, since they get along so well with cats and dogs, they are good with animals and their ways are correct and appropriate, and it must be the fault of an animal such as a bird that somehow things aren’t going right.
However this is not so.
Even human beings would not put up with the human behaviors in question, when the other variables that are involved are taken into consideration.
Suppose some creature is 100 times your weight or more – so well over ten thousand pounds – and stands say 6 times taller than you, or over 30 feet.
This creature expects to be able to pick you up whenever he wants, and physically control you.
And this creature has been known to you to get ANGRY with you. And about things you don’t even understand.
What sort of relationship are you going to naturally have with that creature?
And humans aren’t even prey animals. Birds are.
That is just one point of how most humans that think they know animals in fact create untenable situations with birds.
[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:
katzenjammer wrote:
lucasa wrote:
Or more relevantly, What do you mean? An African Parrot or a European Parrot?
hah! ahem - are you suggesting that coconuts migrate? Monty Python Holy Grail Are you suggesting coconuts migrate? - YouTube
Birds are amazing. I’ve always wanted to get an African Grey.
Just as some additional information on that:
African Greys are notorious for generally not getting along with anyone in the family except one single person. Anyone else simply cannot handle the bird, or will get bit if they try (as a general but not invariable rule.)
They also don’t care for being petted. So if one likes one’s pet animals to like being petted, an African Grey will disappoint.
Actually most parrots aren’t big on it, but most are not as much against it as African greys are. Cockatoos however soak up affection, and macaws sometimes do.
However, on the flip side regarding cockatoos and macaws: They are exceedingly noisy and one really ought to have a safe enclosed outdoor place for them to spend much of the day and fly, as personal opinion, as it is boring for them to spend many hours per day in a cage with limited possible motion and limited things to do. (Or for those people that have them in a cage 23.5 hours out of every 24, that is just cruel IMO.)
That might really be true for African greys as well – perhaps it might cure their notorious unsociability with additional persons for all I know – but as I have not owned one, only known them, I cannot say on that point.[/quote]
Interesting stuff. I’ve only seen a few African greys - but their talking ability and general intelligence floored me. They were extremely perceptive little creatures - or so it seemed to me. But yeah, I guess I’d want to be able to pet 'em.
No doubt you’re right that it’s cruel to not provide an outdoor space for them. It’s only happening with me if I move out of the city and out of the Boston area.
Still, I think they’re really amazing - had macaw in my house (rented house, friend’s Macaw in the courtyard) in Guatemala where I lived for some time. He was amazing - when a man came anywhere near the house he was silent. When a woman came anywhere near he’d sing all sorts of Guatemalan songs, and say things like: OOOOO Laaaa LAAAAAAA!!!
They’re hilarious!
They are really wonderful.
The things that are needed to get along well with birds really are not difficult: it’s just that they aren’t what people “naturally” think – from what works with dogs and cats due to their having been bred to tolerate it – is okay.
You’d probably be interested in some things about the African Grey named N’Kisi:
http://www.sheldrake.org/nkisi/nkisi1_text.html
http://www.sheldrake.org/nkisi/
[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:
Lastly, while this really is a commentary on problems with human beings rather than with cockatoos, the figures are something like, over 90% of cockatoos lose their first home due to people deciding they don’t want them.
[/quote]
Yeah, I’ve heard that - it’s a long-term commitment and you can’t take it lightly. You have to consider the fact that he might outlive you!
[quote]
Dogs, cats, and other domestic animals have undergone thousands of generations of selective breeding which has included being able to acoomodate human behaviors that are really just completely inappropriate for animals and which would never work with any wild animal. They are not genetically the same as wild animals.
Parrots are genetically identical to the wild birds: indeed most are only first-generation domestic bred. Their responses therefore have not evolved towards human behaviors that are very bad for getting along with wild animals.
People tend to assume that, since they get along so well with cats and dogs, they are good with animals and their ways are correct and appropriate, and it must be the fault of an animal such as a bird that somehow things aren’t going right.
However this is not so.
Even human beings would not put up with the human behaviors in question, when the other variables that are involved are taken into consideration.
[b]Suppose some creature is 100 times your weight or more – so well over ten thousand pounds – and stands say 6 times taller than you, or over 30 feet.
This creature expects to be able to pick you up whenever he wants, and physically control you.
And this creature has been known to you to get ANGRY with you. And about things you don’t even understand.[/b]
What sort of relationship are you going to naturally have with that creature?
And humans aren’t even prey animals. Birds are.
That is just one point of how most humans that think they know animals in fact create untenable situations with birds.[/quote]
Wow, that’s really interesting Bill.
Bolded part: for some reason, this vaguely reminds me of my mother…lol!
[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:
They are really wonderful.
The things that are needed to get along well with birds really are not difficult: it’s just that they aren’t what people “naturally” think – from what works with dogs and cats due to their having been bred to tolerate it – is okay.
You’d probably be interested in some things about the African Grey named N’Kisi:
http://www.sheldrake.org/nkisi/nkisi1_text.html
http://www.sheldrake.org/nkisi/
[/quote]
That is just amazing. I read a piece long ago that the African Gray can also count the highest of any animal. On a related note, have you ever seen the Attenborough series? The Lyre bird’s imitation of car alarms, camera noises, chainsaws are extraordinary. Lyre Bird - YouTube
[quote]katzenjammer wrote:
lucasa wrote:
Or more relevantly, What do you mean? An African Parrot or a European Parrot?
hah! ahem - are you suggesting that coconuts migrate? Monty Python Holy Grail Are you suggesting coconuts migrate? - YouTube
Birds are amazing. I’ve always wanted to get an African Grey. [/quote]
Not at all!
My dog (a Beagle) when playing fetch will stand just outside your reach and drop the ball. As soon as you take a step he picks it up and drops it two ft. further back. I watched him fool both my wife (among others) with this trick for almost five min. Score one for the dog.
Our neighbor used to have a poodle and a (I believe) cockatoo. The Beagle hated the Poodle and both had dog doors and would go at it at the fence at the drop of a hat. The cockatoo loved this as it would ‘bark’ like the poodle to agitate our Beagle which would in turn agitate the poodle and initiate fights at the fence. Score two for the bird.
I’m not saying that the cockatoo would outsmart my wife, but one could find evidence to support the theory.