[quote]ZEB wrote:
The more you make the higher your income tax bracket. That is exactly what’s wrong with the system!
How about we reward people for making more? Okay, don’t reward them, but don’t punish them either![/quote]
The arguement to that (which I have a hard time stomaching) is most other countries put a much higher tax burden the ‘rich’.
That is the price to be paid to even have the ability to make a $h!t load of money.
I would perfer a flat tax system but I trust politicans about as much as I trust a criminal. It does not matter which party they are from. They would allow K Street to makes us worse off then we were before.
The key is changing your income from personal to capital gains.
I am friends with someone who is in the upper 1%. He pays taxes on 57% of everything he makes. There is nothing fair about income tax or flat tax for that matter.
A true and fair tax system would be a consumption tax. What you buy, is what you are taxed on. If I remember correctly if it is set at 17% it would off set all federal income tax.
The problem with flat tax is if you own a business you are taxed on what is left over after expenses. A guy who owns his own business and made 10 million last year, is not going to report 10 million. He will end up reporting half, and writing the other half off. Save him self a ton of money to run his business, and pay taxes only on half of it.
As for rich kids in college. You may be right they may not deserve to be there, but atleast their family is paying for it instead of using our tax dollars to make the population government dependant.
A truly fair tax would be a head tax, but that gets one all caught up in debating the meaning of “fair.”
A flat tax would be stupendous. I’m not a fan of the sales tax for a variety of reasons, but the biggest one is that I don’t want the onus of federal tax collection and record keeping put on to businesses’ backs.
For now, I’ll just be happy if they make permanent the Bush tax cuts and move closer to killing the inheritance tax.
[quote]rainjack wrote:
BigCorey75 wrote:
not everyone gets dealt a fair hand in life my friend. My parents are very hard working people who work hard for not alot of money and just because of that I dont think that should prohibit me from getting a quality education if i choose.
Bullshit. If you want to go to college bad enough, you will find a way. College isn’t a right. You can ‘choose’ all you want, but unless you are willing to do what it takes to get there, you might as well be pissing on your leg.
oh yeah and as far as working two jobs, going to my school and playing football its impossible to work two jobs enough to get an income thats worth anything. I would if i could.
You would if you wanted to bad enough. This “poor me - somebody help me” crap is for losers.
I went back to school with a wife and two kids. I delivered pizzas, and my wife never left the house to get a job. Student loans, and hard freaking work. Spare me the “needing an income that’s worth anything” bullshit. If you can’t do it as a single kid - you are doomed to a miserable excuse of a life.
[/quote]
First off, I did what I had to do to get to college. I got good enough grades in HS, Graduated in the top 25% of my class. I worked hard enough to become and ranked football player in my area to get numerous scholarship and grants and loan offers because I knew my parents could afford for me to go to college.
I worked hard enough to recieve the award money that The school im going to felt they could give me for me to attend the school. And now after two years, your going to up and say “we plan to leave no child behind” and cut the very programs that help underprivilaged kids get to school then thats what I call bullshit on.
Also rainjack I didnt come in here to start a fight with you, for some reason you sound like a very bitter person and i dunno why. I could easily sit here and try to bad mouth u as you did to me by saying “miserable excuse of a life ahead” but im a bigger man than that and take the higher road on this one and say you have a nice day
oh yeah and as far as working two jobs, going to my school and playing football its impossible to work two jobs enough to get an income thats worth anything. I would if i could.
Just one little comment here: You might consider not playing Football. When I went to College the Coach wanted me to Wrestle as I had a decent record on my High School team (not great). I turned him down because I did have to work multiple jobs. Hey…I survived, you will too!
Keep your chin up and go for it!
(I just had to talk about Chin-ups)[/quote]
football is the biggest thing paying for me to stay in school. it foots a good 60% of the cost
you know what, its not even worth my time anymore to try and make you all see my side, cause it obvious yall are not, and I have better things to do in my life.
and for the people who think im asking for handouts, I have found away to pay for my last two years of school. I will be graduating from one of the top schools in the nation.
I hope you all the best of luck
For some reason this old quote just popped in my mind: “arguing over the internet is alot like competing in the special olympics, even if you win your still a retard”
[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
Afterall Bush’s taxcut to mommy and daddyt did finace their education. I think I paid for two of my books with that break.[/quote]
f—in wah! You paid only 2 of your books with that break becuz you don’t make crap for money. If you don’t like it, do something about it. Make more money so you can enjoy more tax breaks. You’ll also be paying a heck of a lot more in taxes.
I think its ridiculous that people complain about not having finacial aid to goto a private instituion that is 30k. I am going to a private school that costs over 20k. I worked for 4 long fucking years to pay for that. Its called high school. I got a full academic scholarship. You think its any easier that flipping burgers or delivering pizza no. If you really want to goto college you can. CC is always an option. I have a friend who’s getting married. He’s putting off college so his wife can goto college. Sometimes you gotta make choices and see if you can’t get the help you need.
I agree with BB on the topic of “fair” taxes. Do the rich get extra benefits from their higher taxes? Not to justify the huge increases they have in their taxes and their “progressiveness”. Some things just don’t need to be paid for by the government. Look at how most socialized European countries are doing.
[quote]randman wrote:
Make more money so you can enjoy more tax breaks. You’ll also be paying a heck of a lot more in taxes.
The poor, woe is me, attitude at its best…
[/quote]
Gladly fuknuggit…pay more taxes so the gov’t can afford to pay a livable wage to the Armed Services.
And I wasn’t complaining–I was making a comparrison.
[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
randman wrote:
Make more money so you can enjoy more tax breaks. You’ll also be paying a heck of a lot more in taxes.
The poor, woe is me, attitude at its best…
Gladly fuknuggit…pay more taxes so the gov’t can afford to pay a livable wage to the Armed Services.
And I wasn’t complaining–I was making a comparrison.
[/quote]
Fuknuggit? That’s a new one. I’m going to have to compile all the list of names I’ve been called on this forum at some point, it should be a humurous (and long) list.
I’ll decline on paying more taxes for what you whatever your classification of a living wage is for the armed services. You made a choice, now live with it.
There’s nothing I hate more than “woe is me” bitchin. And you can say what you want, but those couple of choice lines I quoted you saying certainly sounded like good ole fasion bitchin to me.
[quote]haney wrote:
I am friends with someone who is in the upper 1%. He pays taxes on 57% of everything he makes. There is nothing fair about income tax or flat tax for that matter.[/quote]
Supporters of Bush federal tax cuts neglect to take into consideration a few things. As the federal government takes in less money it should theoretically be spending less. However, due to many reasons this is not even close to being the case, which results in a federal deficit which is spiraling out of control. (I am not going to get into why this is bad, but it is).
However, the less income the federal government takes in, the less it is able to 1. distribute to the states 2. provide services to the public. For instance, if you have been driving in most cities you will notice that there are potholes are everywhere. That is because the state/county you are in trouble financial and can’t support it. What do they do then? they raise property taxes in order to keep budgeting levels consistent with pre-tax cut levels.
Also, the government has to cut back on things like Social security, Medicare and prescription insurance, etc. and yes student loans and financial aid. People here keep saying that noone is entitled to a higher education, which is true, but they are entitled to the opportunity to get it. And frankly, with the prices of colleges these days middle class people just cannot compete. Yes, you can go to a cheaper college where you excel, but when you graduate and you are up for a job you will lose out to someone that went to a school which is more recognized/expense and could have mediocore grades (Trust me I have an IVY school education).
So, then unless you are extremely lucky, you get stuck in an average job, and well stay in the middle class. Hence, the rich getting richer and the poor getting poorer, because even though you have an average job, your property and sales tax probably just increased again due to the federal tax cut, and that means you can’t buy as much with the money you earn.
Oh and if you don’t give a kid more money to be directed towards something worthwhile, i.e. education, then they’ll just get your money by robbing you one day in the future.
[quote]randman wrote:
I’ll decline on paying more taxes for what you whatever your classification of a living wage is for the armed services. You made a choice, now live with it.
There’s nothing I hate more than “woe is me” bitchin. And you can say what you want, but those couple of choice lines I quoted you saying certainly sounded like good ole fasion bitchin to me.
[/quote]
The classification is this…I went in knowing full well what I was getting into. A the time the wage was a little under $800/mo. This was fine considering I was single and had no children and had gov’t housing and subsidized food. Spent the good majority of my $$ on booze and paying back my student loans.
Until one meets someone and decides he or she wants to spend the rest of their life with that particular person…military pay is fine–and here’s the distinction. Most military families could qualify for food stamps and often do. Many military families live at or below poverty levels. The same men and women who fight to give you your rights and make it possible for you to live in the “greatest country on earth” often don’t enjoy the same rights and privleges you yourself have. I think they should be afforded at the very least a quality of life that ensures their children a fighting chance if they should choose to
make the military a career.
I was raised in a military houshold during the Regan administration (keep in mind this was during a military buildup and defense budget surplus where military memebers did not recieve one cost of living raise until Clinton came to office) and they were able to barely make due on two incomes (both military) raising three children. Pardon me for being a little bitter. My parents made sacrifices and choices because they beleived in a cause and for it were not able to give their children an education.
But because of these circumstances I believe myself far superior in character than the likes of the silver spoon fed “Bushes” of the world. Everything I am and everyting I have become is because I have had the determination to do so. It is those people’s loss that they will never truely appreciate what hard work means.
The average person makes sacrifices with blood, sweat, and tears at the very least the well to do should be happy to make those same sacrifices except in the form of higher taxes to pay for the right to benefit from capitalism (call it an association fee).
I can’t believe we’re still discussing this. The Tax Cuts that we’ve had in the past few years are about as irrelevant as they can be – saying they’re good (or bad) is like saying more butterflies flapping their wings are causing the extreme weather patterns we’re seeing this year.
What we should be looking at is how wisely this administration is SPENDING the money; personally, I believe most people in this country pay waaaaay too much in Federal Taxes for what they get in return, and that this administration should either dramatically reduce spending – and dramatically reduce Federal Taxes – OR start spending the money much more wisely. Considering how cynical I am about the latter ever happening I’d definitely push for the former.
So how about starting with a 50% reduction in spending in the next year’s budget, hum? THAT would be something that would get me raving about.
[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
randman wrote:
I’ll decline on paying more taxes for what you whatever your classification of a living wage is for the armed services. You made a choice, now live with it.
There’s nothing I hate more than “woe is me” bitchin. And you can say what you want, but those couple of choice lines I quoted you saying certainly sounded like good ole fasion bitchin to me.
The classification is this…I went in knowing full well what I was getting into. A the time the wage was a little under $800/mo. This was fine considering I was single and had no children and had gov’t housing and subsidized food. Spent the good majority of my $$ on booze and paying back my student loans.
Until one meets someone and decides he or she wants to spend the rest of their life with that particular person…military pay is fine–and here’s the distinction. Most military families could qualify for food stamps and often do. Many military families live at or below poverty levels. The same men and women who fight to give you your rights and make it possible for you to live in the “greatest country on earth” often don’t enjoy the same rights and privleges you yourself have. I think they should be afforded at the very least a quality of life that ensures their children a fighting chance if they should choose to
make the military a career.
I was raised in a military houshold during the Regan administration (keep in mind this was during a military buildup and defense budget surplus where military memebers did not recieve one cost of living raise until Clinton came to office) and they were able to barely make due on two incomes (both military) raising three children. Pardon me for being a little bitter. My parents made sacrifices and choices because they beleived in a cause and for it were not able to give their children an education.
But because of these circumstances I believe myself far superior in character than the likes of the silver spoon fed “Bushes” of the world. Everything I am and everyting I have become is because I have had the determination to do so. It is those people’s loss that they will never truely appreciate what hard work means.
The average person makes sacrifices with blood, sweat, and tears at the very least the well to do should be happy to make those same sacrifices except in the form of higher taxes to pay for the right to benefit from capitalism (call it an association fee).[/quote]
Yeah LIFTIC, we always here “we love the troops God bless the troops” “They have my utmost respect”. Do they realize that most E-5’s with families are on food stamps for the reasons you and simplesimon stated ! But, I guess to say anything about that would be “bitching” .
[quote]Elkhntr1 wrote:
I agree, who owe’s you anything? There are kids right now who were born into money and have never had the option of having to hold down one job much less three.
It’s very hard for them to balance partying five nights a week and driving their BMW to class every day and then pass with a C- minus average. All while having to make that party in the Hamptons over the weekend.
So, see kid things are tough all over! Quit your whining and bitching and go get that job at Mickey D’s. [/quote]
And some people were born with a “mesomorphic” body. They do one arm curl and get muscles all over their body. Is that “fair?” No, but it is part of life. You play with the hand that you are dealt. No one owes you anything in this life!
[quote]hspder wrote:
I can’t believe we’re still discussing this. The Tax Cuts that we’ve had in the past few years are about as irrelevant as they can be – saying they’re good (or bad) is like saying more butterflies flapping their wings are causing the extreme weather patterns we’re seeing this year.
What we should be looking at is how wisely this administration is SPENDING the money; personally, I believe most people in this country pay waaaaay too much in Federal Taxes for what they get in return, and that this administration should either dramatically reduce spending – and dramatically reduce Federal Taxes – OR start spending the money much more wisely. Considering how cynical I am about the latter ever happening I’d definitely push for the former.
So how about starting with a 50% reduction in spending in the next year’s budget, hum? THAT would be something that would get me raving about.[/quote]
Very true. And neither party wants to do much about cutting spending other than to talk about it. Reforming the “entitlement” programs would be the place to begin…
I don’t know how hard it is for some of the anti-tax cut folks to realize that the increase in revenues has cut the deficit by an extra 150 billion dollars. That’s billion with a ‘b’.
The tax-cuts - whether you think they do anything, or not are directly related to the increase in revenues. Supply-side economics - works evertime it is tried.
But I will agree with everyone else on cutting spending. Do away with the EPA, Dept of Education, privatize S.S., and HUD.
Then we wouldn’t have a deficit, and the politicians wouldn’t be able to spend the S.S. money like they do now.
[quote]rainjack wrote:
But I will agree with everyone else on cutting spending. Do away with the EPA, Dept of Education, privatize S.S., and HUD.
[/quote]
So your solution would be to privatize everything? Then really the rich will get richer.
Privatizing education will only allow the privileged to gain opportunity in this country.
Doing away with the EPA will only hurt this country in the long run. I know it’s hard for those instant gratification types to understand the environment is a long-term problem that started with the industrial revolution two hundred years ago. We cannot allow big business to destroy our home and the planet in the name of stock holder satisfaction.
Go ahead privatize social security and ruin everything that FDR was trying to do for individuals…we could call it social risk–because it won’t be very secure if you let the average person control it. Also HUD exists so that those without the means can own property and aslo to helps to sustain urban area. Unless you want to live in a giant suburb this will not stand.