Peggy Noonan wrote a great editorial on the lack of a travel ban, at least for people who are not American Citizens coming here from effected nations. IMO, there is no logic to why we can’t have American aid workers come back and forth with close monitoring and/or quarantine procedures while restricting travel from people like the Liberian man who showed up in Dallas.
EDIT: Sorry, it looks like the article is only open to subscribers now.
Ebola madness from my hometown…WTF???
http://www.vindy.com/news/2014/oct/19/report-hazmat-crew-called-after-allegiant-passenge/?nw
and
http://www.vindy.com/news/2014/oct/20/lawyer-defends-man-charged-inducing-panic-allegian/
[quote]Gkhan wrote:
Ebola madness from my hometown…WTF???
http://www.vindy.com/news/2014/oct/19/report-hazmat-crew-called-after-allegiant-passenge/?nw
and
http://www.vindy.com/news/2014/oct/20/lawyer-defends-man-charged-inducing-panic-allegian/
[/quote]
People hurl on flights all the time, now they bring in SWAT and hazmat… great. I wish they were around when some lady shit herself 2 rows in front of me on a flight out of Charlotte some years back…
[quote]thethirdruffian wrote:
[quote]Powerpuff wrote:
Really, so what “normative sample” were the tests in Liberia designed? Or were the tests designed for Liberia? Keep in mind that the principle language of Liberia is English in your answer.
No offense, but I am going to take the detailed briefing by CIA Analysts tasked to AFICOM a bit more seriously over politically-correct statements by a school counselor somewhere in the USA.
The CIA factbook on West Africa is not even confidential; you can probably find it on the web. It’s very detailed and specific.
You can argue root-cause of their idiocy all day long – nature, nurture, lack of righteousness by Africans a pre-mortal existence (per your Brigham Young) or whatever. I don’t care about cause. I care about “are.”
And they ARE stupid.[/quote]
African intellectual stagnation is the result of a severe lack of embedded human capital, compounded over many generations. The issue is socio-economic, not biological.
[quote]Bismark wrote:
[quote]thethirdruffian wrote:
[quote]Powerpuff wrote:
Really, so what “normative sample” were the tests in Liberia designed? Or were the tests designed for Liberia? Keep in mind that the principle language of Liberia is English in your answer.
No offense, but I am going to take the detailed briefing by CIA Analysts tasked to AFICOM a bit more seriously over politically-correct statements by a school counselor somewhere in the USA.
The CIA factbook on West Africa is not even confidential; you can probably find it on the web. It’s very detailed and specific.
You can argue root-cause of their idiocy all day long – nature, nurture, lack of righteousness by Africans a pre-mortal existence (per your Brigham Young) or whatever. I don’t care about cause. I care about “are.”
And they ARE stupid.[/quote]
African intellectual stagnation is the result of a severe lack of embedded human capital, compounded over many generations. The issue is socio-economic, not biological.[/quote]
Actually no, decades of studies of heritability of IQ, interracial adoption and IQ and sociological studies of the achievements of different ethnic groups within societies has confirmed that biology is more significant than environmental factors. This is why say Japanese and Koreans arrive as disadvantaged minorities in many countries and within a generation are Doctors and Lawyers. Ashkenazi Jews, Japanese and Koreans are biologically predisposed to high intelligence. Next come whites and the Han Chinese populations that have congregated to cities since the industrialisation of China followed by Indians.
[quote]Powerpuff wrote:
[quote]thethirdruffian wrote:
[quote]Powerpuff wrote:
Really, so what “normative sample” were the tests in Liberia designed? Or were the tests designed for Liberia? Keep in mind that the principle language of Liberia is English in your answer.
No offense, but I am going to take the detailed briefing by CIA Analysts tasked to AFICOM a bit more seriously over politically-correct statements by a school counselor somewhere in the USA.
The CIA factbook on West Africa is not even confidential; you can probably find it on the web. It’s very detailed and specific.
You can argue root-cause of their idiocy all day long – nature, nurture, lack of righteousness by Africans a pre-mortal existence (per your Brigham Young) or whatever. I don’t care about cause. I care about “are.”
And they ARE stupid.[/quote]
I have no idea what tests might have been used to test the intelligence of the Liberian people. I’m just saying that when you are dealing with an impoverished third world country where people have been living in very primitive conditions with a culture that’s incredibly different from our own, these measures we use in the US or other First World nations are not going to transfer easily. There are so many confounding factors at work, it would make meaningful comparisons very difficult.
Yes, their customs regarding grieving and funerals are obviously making things worse in terms of controlling the spread of the virus, as is a lack of education about microbes, stigma about the disease, superstition, and a host of other third world problems. If by stupid you mean ignorant, OK. But if West Africa is populated by people with the innate intellectual capacity of Forrest Gump, then I’d have to see what kind of data that’s based on.
[/quote]
I am aware of the specific tests used and the accusation of critical theorists of “Eurocentric bias.” As the authors of the bell curve study demonstrated, the “IQ tests measure the same thing in blacks as in whites.” That “thing” is what we call “cognitive function” and is intimately related to economic, educational and social outcomes in society. The differences that Murray and Herrnstein found “reflect differences in cognitive functioning” and are not the result of “bias” or poorly designed tests. In the 20 years since the publication of the Bell Curve study a great many more studies have been done focusing on how much environmental factors influence intelligence. This is the old “nature versus nurture” argument. Those with an ideological agenda, particularly critical theorists, have systematically attempted to undermine these studies by downplaying the heritability aspect. They also try to conflate these studies with the pseudo-scientific theories of 19th Century Nordicists.
[quote]SexMachine wrote:
[quote]Powerpuff wrote:
[quote]thethirdruffian wrote:
[quote]Powerpuff wrote:
Really, so what “normative sample” were the tests in Liberia designed? Or were the tests designed for Liberia? Keep in mind that the principle language of Liberia is English in your answer.
No offense, but I am going to take the detailed briefing by CIA Analysts tasked to AFICOM a bit more seriously over politically-correct statements by a school counselor somewhere in the USA.
The CIA factbook on West Africa is not even confidential; you can probably find it on the web. It’s very detailed and specific.
You can argue root-cause of their idiocy all day long – nature, nurture, lack of righteousness by Africans a pre-mortal existence (per your Brigham Young) or whatever. I don’t care about cause. I care about “are.”
And they ARE stupid.[/quote]
I have no idea what tests might have been used to test the intelligence of the Liberian people. I’m just saying that when you are dealing with an impoverished third world country where people have been living in very primitive conditions with a culture that’s incredibly different from our own, these measures we use in the US or other First World nations are not going to transfer easily. There are so many confounding factors at work, it would make meaningful comparisons very difficult.
Yes, their customs regarding grieving and funerals are obviously making things worse in terms of controlling the spread of the virus, as is a lack of education about microbes, stigma about the disease, superstition, and a host of other third world problems. If by stupid you mean ignorant, OK. But if West Africa is populated by people with the innate intellectual capacity of Forrest Gump, then I’d have to see what kind of data that’s based on.
[/quote]
I am aware of the specific tests used and the accusation of critical theorists of “Eurocentric bias.” As the authors of the bell curve study demonstrated, the “IQ tests measure the same thing in blacks as in whites.” That “thing” is what we call “cognitive function” and is intimately related to economic, educational and social outcomes in society. The differences that Murray and Herrnstein found “reflect differences in cognitive functioning” and are not the result of “bias” or poorly designed tests. In the 20 years since the publication of the Bell Curve study a great many more studies have been done focusing on how much environmental factors influence intelligence. This is the old “nature versus nurture” argument. Those with an ideological agenda, particularly critical theorists, have systematically attempted to undermine these studies by downplaying the heritability aspect. They also try to conflate these studies with the pseudo-scientific theories of 19th Century Nordicists.[/quote]
I think if we look at HISTORY we can find an answer. It may not be the most “PC” answer, but it will be an answer you can’t really argue with.
Have the people in Africa evolved at the same rate and pace of those on different continents? Nope.
Have the people in Africa developed any kind of industry or made any advances to their civilization on their own? Nope.
Have the people in Africa used the aid they have received in an intelligent and sustainable way? Nope.
Now that the internet/availability of technology is at least somewhat available, have any African countries shown any signs of significant innovation? Nope.
Now that Western influences/ideals have been available to Africans for decades now, Have the people of Africa shown a propensity towards shifting the racial and tribal prejudice and violence towards each other? Nope.
Can a majority of Africans even FEED THEMSELVES? Nope.
As for the IQ average, here’s a link: http://sq.4mg.com/NationIQ.htm
Some additional thoughts on the matter: Login to read
Why is it “racist” to tell the truth? I don’t “hate” anyone in Africa. I certainly don’t “want” them to suffer, starve, or die. But it’s become painfully obvious that the end of colonialism and the spread of “democracy” (actually Marxism) has had a very negative effect on the quality of life there. Kinda like the “Arab spring”…
One could almost say with a fairly high degree of certainty that representative Democracy only works when the citizens are smart enough to elect people that AREN’T corrupt pieces of shit. The fact that these people still get elected shows that the average citizen is, for lack of a better term, fucking stupid. As with any generalization, there are exceptions to the rule, naturally. But open your eyes and SEE what the reality is! Not what our society has conditioned us to “not say out loud”. That bury your head in the sand mentality won’t help anyone in the long term. It certainly won’t help Africans feed themselves.
[quote]Bismark wrote:
African intellectual stagnation is the result of a severe lack of embedded human capital, compounded over many generations. The issue is socio-economic, not biological.[/quote]
IQ is no more or less genetically inheritable than height.
Yes, short parents can have a tall kid and tall parents can have a short kid, but that’s the exception, not the rule. Same for intelligence.
So while environment also plays a very important role, to discount genetics is politically correct nonsense.
Sooo, about that Ebola…
To clarify. My remarks were not meant to imply in any way that there’s no biological basis for IQ, or that intelligence is not heritable. Or that we don’t see statistically significant differences across some ethnic groups. I believe I said in my initial response to Ruff that it’s a complex topic where both biology and environment play a role. And so let’s not go there in this thread. Calling the people “stupid” is problematic for me, given what I know about it. Maybe I’m the only one. Fine.
EDIT: Incidentally, I have one kid who is intellectually gifted across areas, one who is profoundly mentally handicapped, and one in the middle. You can draw whatever conclusions you’d like about my intelligence from that. None of my kids are from West Africa and none have tested positive for Ebola. 
Back to the deadly virus.
[quote]Jewbacca wrote:
[quote]Bismark wrote:
African intellectual stagnation is the result of a severe lack of embedded human capital, compounded over many generations. The issue is socio-economic, not biological.[/quote]
IQ is no more or less genetically inheritable than height.
Yes, short parents can have a tall kid and tall parents can have a short kid, but that’s the exception, not the rule. Same for intelligence.
So while environment also plays a very important role, to discount genetics is politically correct nonsense.[/quote]
Sure, but the huge disparity between the global north and south cannot be explained merely, or even predominantly, by geographic variances in inheritable traits, such as relative intelligence.
[quote]angry chicken wrote:
One could almost say with a fairly high degree of certainty that representative Democracy only works when the citizens are smart enough to elect people that AREN’T corrupt pieces of shit. The fact that these people still get elected shows that the average citizen is, for lack of a better term, fucking stupid. As with any generalization, there are exceptions to the rule, naturally. But open your eyes and SEE what the reality is! Not what our society has conditioned us to “not say out loud”. That bury your head in the sand mentality won’t help anyone in the long term. It certainly won’t help Africans feed themselves.
[/quote]
Oh man, Americans must be really fucking dumb then.
Intelligence is largely genetic and one of the interesting things is how populations go through rapid evolutionary changes in response to environment. This can be seen clearly with the Han Chinese. Over about 150 years as China industrialised the Chinese mainland peasants who were drawn to the major cities and became literate saw a massive increase in intelligence in comparison to those who stayed on the land and remained illiterate. It’s not a brain drain effect like you see in Ireland where the smartest people leave. It’s a rapid evolutionary response to a new environment.
The problem is there are some peoples who don’t seem to be capable of adapting and going through this process however. The Australian aborigines are a prime example - they’re probably the most primitive people on earth. The Tasmanian aborigines never even developed the ability to create fire. For 40,000+ years the aborigines made absolutely no innovations whatsoever. It seems they are just not biologically capable of any kind of cognitive adaptation or evolution. Today they are still by and large completely unable to function in a modern society.
This raises a lot of ethical problems. Before the 1960’s they were treated with paternalistic benevolence and looked after like children by missionaries and the state. They didn’t have the autonomy and rights that whites had because we knew from experience that(sadly) they just aren’t capable of even looking after themselves. This of course sounds “racist” and I suppose it is depending on your definition but it was done out of kindness. They were not exploited. But when they were given full rights as citizens they really took a turn for the worse > squalor, unemployment, severe alcoholism etc. Before the 60’s the bush aborigines lived in isolated rural communities with no access to alcohol; they had no autonomy; they were given work to do and overseen like children; kept busy, we tried to educate them, tried to keep them clean; make them look after their homes and so on. We actually took their children away and raised their children in missionary schools.
When you look at what they were like then they were so much better off in so many ways. They were clean, healthy, happy etc. nowadays they’re in an absolutely appalling state. I don’t think people realise just how bad it is. Child abuse is widespread, alcoholism is rampant, terrible health problems and disease. Their life expectancy has rapidly declined since they were given full rights and autonomy. Their literacy levels have plummeted. They live in utter squalor and are known for things like smashing up their own houses to use for firewood because their electricity was cut off for non-payment of bills and so on. They can’t manage money. They can’t handle alcohol. They can’t hold a job.
The sad fact is the they are just not capable of adapting in any way to the modern world. The only chance they had was the “racist” system that oversaw and guided them like children. But that system was pulled down in the name of civil rights and now they’re living in absolute hell. So these sort of questions about race and intelligence and so on aren’t just academic. They have very real consequences. And I can assure you that I’m not exaggerating any of this. Some of my ancestors were stockmen and worked closely with aborigines for generations. My grandfather saw firsthand what happened once they were given autonomy.
[quote]Jewbacca wrote:
[quote]Bismark wrote:
African intellectual stagnation is the result of a severe lack of embedded human capital, compounded over many generations. The issue is socio-economic, not biological.[/quote]
IQ is no more or less genetically inheritable than height.
Yes, short parents can have a tall kid and tall parents can have a short kid, but that’s the exception, not the rule. Same for intelligence.
So while environment also plays a very important role, to discount genetics is politically correct nonsense.[/quote]
Another phenomenon at work though is any exceptionally gifted person born over there won’t stay. There were lots of really smart kids from ghana and sierra leone I went to university with, and as far as i know, these kids never went home; they all settled down here and removed themselves from the gene pool over there
[quote]magick wrote:
[quote]angry chicken wrote:
One could almost say with a fairly high degree of certainty that representative Democracy only works when the citizens are smart enough to elect people that AREN’T corrupt pieces of shit. The fact that these people still get elected shows that the average citizen is, for lack of a better term, fucking stupid. As with any generalization, there are exceptions to the rule, naturally. But open your eyes and SEE what the reality is! Not what our society has conditioned us to “not say out loud”. That bury your head in the sand mentality won’t help anyone in the long term. It certainly won’t help Africans feed themselves.
[/quote]
Oh man, Americans must be really fucking dumb then.
[/quote]
I would say about 47% of them are pretty fucking dumb.
NY doctor tests positive for Ebola.
[quote]MaximusB wrote:
NY doctor tests positive for Ebola.
http://www.cnn.com/2014/10/23/health/new-york-possible-ebola-case/index.html[/quote]
And this guy was all over the place riding the subways, out and about in general. I still say to look at what has transpired in Texas (and Ohio) with the case of the 2 nurses.
The end of October will be the end of the so-called 21 day incubation period. If no new cases come up, chances are that nothing significant will come out of the NYC case.
[quote]beachguy498 wrote:
[quote]MaximusB wrote:
NY doctor tests positive for Ebola.
http://www.cnn.com/2014/10/23/health/new-york-possible-ebola-case/index.html[/quote]
And this guy was all over the place riding the subways, out and about in general. I still say to look at what has transpired in Texas (and Ohio) with the case of the 2 nurses.
The end of October will be the end of the so-called 21 day incubation period. If no new cases come up, chances are that nothing significant will come out of the NYC case. [/quote]
Can you imagine if it breaks out in NYC? We would be SOOOOO fucked.
[quote]angry chicken wrote:
[quote]beachguy498 wrote:
[quote]MaximusB wrote:
NY doctor tests positive for Ebola.
http://www.cnn.com/2014/10/23/health/new-york-possible-ebola-case/index.html[/quote]
And this guy was all over the place riding the subways, out and about in general. I still say to look at what has transpired in Texas (and Ohio) with the case of the 2 nurses.
The end of October will be the end of the so-called 21 day incubation period. If no new cases come up, chances are that nothing significant will come out of the NYC case. [/quote]
Can you imagine if it breaks out in NYC? We would be SOOOOO fucked.
[/quote]
Lock it down… nobody in or out and Kurt Russell for mayor…