Im not an expert. The doctors who did the research and work in the field are. You are a close minded fool. Continue with your bro science and ill go my way. just stop putting words in my mouth. you sound like an immature teenager who cannot understand simple english.
Your one size fits all is the most mind numbing thing ever. nobody said that. again you are putting words in my and everyone elses.
The dose should be managed per patient to achieve symptom resolution. How is that not a one size fits all approach?
Its ok man. you continue down the road of taking an ai or suggesting an ai because you are the doctor and have so much literature to back you up …
there are so many folks from jay cambell, doctor keith nichols, scoott howell, jordan grant, jeffery ruthserbusch, and so many more who are doctors in the field that have said this.
But you are an expert to some extent. You are the only one who did research and experimented. A dummy like me just started chewing away at AI just because.
You don’t even need to post evidence, we will just take your word for it I guess.
Let’s not forget AIs are not the only way to manipulate E2 either, but even that doesn’t matter because you like your E2 in the 70s and who am I to say i myself like certain levels of E2 or not if you like your E2 in the 70s.
Could be. I injected 168mg and my e2 was 77. Danny uses 250mg but his is 60. Clearly he’s probably one of those guys who needs to push his dose just to get TT and e2 high enough. I’m on the other end. Most ppl are probably in the middle
What about the doctors that do utilize AIs? Like Dr. Rand McClain. He has some very good YouTube videos discussing the benefits of carefully controlling (not eliminating) estrogen. Or the doctor that not too long ago debated Bossa who also uses AIs in his practice? Are they not experts because they don’t agree?
For me, I’ve tried going without an AI long term, more than one year. I struggled with water retention which I could of tolerated if it didn’t also come with an unsafe increase in blood pressure. Not to mention fat gain in my love handle area and reduced libido…but that was just my experience. I’m not implying it applies to everyone. Though clearly some doctors agree that an Ai can be beneficial to some individuals.
High E affects everyone differently, so its best to start with T only and see how it affects you on both androgen levels and Aromatase. I experienced some bloat for months. Now I cant believe how tight my core has gotten. High E mind you. If you suspect E problems and rectify them with an AI then this is good news. But it should not be the start point, as much as high T doses for new patients.
In general I like his advice, but he’s still advocating 15-20pg for e2, and I think that’s probably too low for most. However, I also don’t know anyone who uses him to offer their experience or review.
The Viking guy they interviewed had a much more informed viewpoint. They offer the AI if needed, starting at .125mg doses & going off labs/symptoms. Seems like a more open-minded approach
Aromatase inhibitors are not exactly poison per se, but the do create a state of depletion in more than one way. Everything can have side effects and consequences, even T. But T is a hormone that is well received and it requires some of us to have to wait longer than others. I mean, it took years for our bodies to slowly deteriorate and try to adjust to the new norm, and we suffered like this for years. What makes us think that the road to recovery is just a quick flight back to our youth? No, its a trek back to square one and unfucking yourself is harder than when the damage was being done. So take your time and resist the need for an AI. If you think you have to take it, be careful.
The amount of folsk who have posted research and studies and other knowledge is massive. Nobody reads it, and even if they do, they dont want to take it serously. They would rather take some bro science article and trust that over actual medical literature.
I didnt say im an expert. I was given the data and research and etc. I wasnt convienced, i already had a gut feeling and fear of fucking with my hormone balance.
You just want to argue man. There are a couple years of posts everywhere on this board in regards to the info you haven’t looked for.
Its not that i want to argue, it’s that you are intolerant to others opinions and believe you are the only one who did research. I am telling you that apparently you are the only one who did research everyone else didn’t. You tried to insinuate that from the get go, did you not?
Are you new? I mean this has been discussed a dozen times over and plenty of folks dont even need research, they go from experience. AI are not needed in 99.999999% of folks out there.
Danny bossa has tons of research on the facebook group he is a part of and has mentioned it plenty of times.
I posted an article not long ago as to how aromatase in the brain was found to be the reason behind libido. it was a huge find and nobody here took that into consideration, even though majority of the guys who want to lower E are having libido issues.
It’s very simple and i hope you can grasp that we are simply trying to achieve maximum benefit from TRT.
Estrogen is parcine (i believe that’s the word doctor jordan grant uses). Its a local hormone that does not leave the tissue where it was produced (aromatase).
When you test your estrogen levels it only shows the amount of E in your blood. Not your brain (as discussed in the article above)
When you are taking an AI or testing your estrogen levels, you are having zero clue whether the heart, brain, bones, and other organs and tissue have low, normal or high levels of estrogen. you cannot test it. Why this doesn’t this make people stop and think. Or is this bro science?
plenty of info shows that low estrogen is bad for the heart, bones and etc.
The suggestion from these doctors are to manage your dose if you have symptoms. Estrogen isn’t always the problem everyone wants it to be. It is an uneducated guess for most.
do you agree that men and women have exactly the same tissue, organs, minus reproductive? Google benefits of E in woman and you’ll realize that woman with low E get breast cancer and other issues like CV decline. Woman post menopause have brittle bones… Why? estrogne is gone… Its well researched how important and protective E is for woman and their health (heart brain bones skin and etc). Why wouldn’t the same hormone benefit men’s health if we have exactly the same tissue organs and etc? Sure maybe our hearts are bigger or whatever, but they are the same. Hint there is info out there showing how E is vital to our health. Just dont expect a pharamcetucial company to create a study showing us TRT benefits us better than their pills for blood pressure and etc.
Every single TRT study over the decades that showed benefits of T were without AI or lowering of estrogen. They all simply took T doses and they documented the benefits. There is zero evidence showing the need for an AI throughout the years and even doctor rand mclain has been asked to produce this data to backup his use… He cannot and avoids the question. Why would any doctor do this? They are providing medical care. Shouldn’t they base their care on actual medical literature and science… etc…
Logical conclusion : Why would anyone take the risk of causing low E in the heart or brain or wherever by using an AI? Why?
Why would anyone block the hormone that causes more than half the benefits we want from TRT?
I mean it’s a scary thought and even the anabolic doc has mentioned it, and so many others. including non doctors like the guy from more plates more dates youtube channel. F even stan efferding alluded to the benefits of estrogen when he took his athletes off AI and saw big improvements in strength and performance. Now he tells all athletes to not use AI. He has a video on his channel where he discusses this. The guy himself is on 200mg and doesnt use an AI.
Every single doctor who prescribes an AI has never produced any evidence showing its need. Zero. nill. nothing. Every single doctor who warns men to not use an AI have information backing up their stance. Google it and look for the evidence. even an doctor in india who backed up the use of AI recently reported he changed his views on AI and no longer recommends them.
It is mind numbing having this conversation. You guys always put words in our mouths saying “you are saying raise your estrogen super high”. … We never said that and all we suggest is instead of using a AI , why don’t you just modify your dose , inject daily and give it time to work.
**We are saying don’t mess with your estrogen levels directly by using an ai because Estrogen is extremely beneficial for men and woman. Around half or more of the benefits we want from TRT are from Estrogen. We are also saying that E is not the cause for every issue men have when they start TRT. **
What benefit would a doctor perceive by telling folks not to bother with their Estrogen levels? The only reason they do this is to create better health and use their knowledge to help others.
The use of ai did not even come from the medical community. It was bodybuilders that started the AI craze and doctors picked up on it … not realizing body builders arent doing TRT. I read some used an AI before a show simply to prep.
BLAH BLAH BLAH. I just repeated something i’ve said a thousand times. something someone here is going to twist into “you said raise your E super high and etc”. Hint: never said that. This is a fresh statement that you can use to try and understand what we so called anti ai group is trying to say.
Yes I never heard any of this and never have seen or been in these debates. You and Danny and all his other followers are the only holders of the ultimate truth and are the only ones who do “proper TRT”.
You didn’t read a damn thing I said. Get out of her you clown. Waste of time. Nobody follows me man. I run a business doing search engine marketing for businesses. I simply pass on what I have been taught by my doctor and others. I am not even in that Facebook group.
You are a troll man. You have no clue what you are doing and cannot decipher truth from false. You speak with emotions rather than logic.
I wrote my piece. You cannot even be respectful enoguh to read it and have a proper discussion.
Typical of someone who has no clue what they are doing and just stir the pot.
I have never taken anything but TRT nor researched the topic. My gut feeling is they probably do have symptoms of too much everything and take AI to lower those symptoms. Although not all of those agents aromatase. Lots of bb guys take 1000mg of T and add a dozen anabolic and other agents on top.
In the world of TRT we are supposed to give the body something it’s missing. I’m fairly confident the body can find its own balance if dose and time to stabilize are correct.
I do not know if feedback loops exist separately for T and E. I do suspect the ratio matters, as they compete for receptors. Your body probably functions better with higher E with elevated T.
