DN: I think I’m missing your point. Are you saying these are the only 4 possible scenarios. Or the most likely? Or just the first 4 you thought of?
[quote]DarkNinjaa wrote:
Scenario A…
[/quote]
[quote]csulli wrote:
[quote]Dr. Pangloss wrote:
There is no demonstrable harm from allowing a 6 year old boy to wear a dress. To bring sexuality into the discussion only muddles it. Many times a young boy wearing a dress is just that and not some glimpse into his sexuality.[/quote]
Hold on a second, I may be out of school, but I still remember being a kid. In my experience, a boy dressing like a fairy at school would be WAY harmful to him socially, psychologically, and possibly physically.[/quote]
Really, it’s not the dress that’s causing this, though, is it? It’s the actions of other’s. To continue with DB’s example from earlier, the dress is no more causing this than the Yarmulke is causing the Jewish kid to get beat up, the glasses are causing the myopic kid from getting beat up, or melanin is causing the Black kid to get his ass beat.
Perhaps out efforts would be better spent teaching mutual respect rather than mindless conformity.
[quote]Dr. Pangloss wrote:
[quote]csulli wrote:
[quote]Dr. Pangloss wrote:
There is no demonstrable harm from allowing a 6 year old boy to wear a dress. To bring sexuality into the discussion only muddles it. Many times a young boy wearing a dress is just that and not some glimpse into his sexuality.[/quote]
Hold on a second, I may be out of school, but I still remember being a kid. In my experience, a boy dressing like a fairy at school would be WAY harmful to him socially, psychologically, and possibly physically.[/quote]
Perhaps out efforts would be better spent teaching mutual respect rather than mindless conformity.[/quote]
Exactly. All we’re teaching a kid by not allowing him to wear a dress if he wants to just because he might be made fun of is that they should just give in to those who persecute them and join the crowd no matter how much it means abandoning who you really are.
[quote]pushharder wrote:
[quote]Dr. Pangloss wrote:
…Perhaps out efforts would be better spent teaching mutual respect rather than mindless conformity.
[/quote]
Mindless conformity.
Mindful conformity.
There is a gulf betwixt the two. How large and easily navigable is it?
[/quote]
Regardless, in this case you’re asking someone to conform to the wishes of people who persecute you rather than conform to who you ARE. I think conforming to who you are and not to who people think you should be, even at an early age, is the epitome of mindful vs. mindless conformity.
[quote]pushharder wrote:
[quote]Dr. Pangloss wrote:
…Perhaps out efforts would be better spent teaching mutual respect rather than mindless conformity.
[/quote]
Mindless conformity.
Mindful conformity.
There is a gulf betwixt the two. How large and easily navigable is it?
[/quote]
There is a gulf, but that’s the role of proper parenting, to help one’s child navigate that space while being true to who they are.
Realistically speaking, what is the harm in denying a 10 year old the ability to wear a dress to school until they are 16-17?
Do the transgendered have a history of trauma from delayed transitions?
[quote]Dr. Pangloss wrote:
Really, it’s not the dress that’s causing this, though, is it? It’s the actions of other’s. To continue with DB’s example from earlier, the dress is no more causing this than the Yarmulke is causing the Jewish kid to get beat up, the glasses are causing the myopic kid from getting beat up, or melanin is causing the Black kid to get his ass beat.
Perhaps out efforts would be better spent teaching mutual respect rather than mindless conformity.[/quote]
Well in my generation glasses and braces were so common kids didn’t even get picked on for those anymore. And holy shit kids certainly didn’t get picked on for being black.
We could debate the semantics of “cause” till the cows come home, but really, the dress is fucking causing it. Maybe it’s not the “root cause” but it’s a cause. It’s very easy to wear something else and not subject yourself to that torment. And I wouldn’t stand for my kid to pick on anyone. Hopefully most people are like that. But it isn’t even about getting made fun of. Even if the kids have good parents who tell them not to make fun of others, do you think the boy wearing a dress is going to make that many friends and develop socially very well? He won’t. There’s no gay community in elementary school. He needs to suck it up and wait a few years if he really feels like he has to dress that way.
[quote]therajraj wrote:
Realistically speaking, what is the harm in denying a 10 year old the ability to wear a dress to school until they are 16-17?
Do the transgendered have a history of trauma from delayed transitions?
[/quote]
That’s what I’m saying too. He’s got a loving family, a roof over his head, plenty of food to eat, an education, God forbid he have to wait a few years so he can wear a fucking dress instead of jeans. There’s kids who have to put up with a lot worse shit than not getting to explore their desire to be Tinkerbell.
[quote]csulli wrote:
There’s no gay community in elementary school.[/quote]
Just as an aside, where does this come from, that a kid wearing a dress is necessariy gay?
You know who gay dudes wanna fuck? Men.
(Generally) gay dudes don’t want to fuck men who look like women any more than (generally) straight dudes want to fuck women that look like men.
[quote]therajraj wrote:
Realistically speaking, what is the harm in denying a 10 year old the ability to wear a dress to school until they are 16-17?
Do the transgendered have a history of trauma from delayed transitions?
[/quote]
Even at 16-17 do not all schools have dress codes? If a guy can not wear a shirt with certain logos and girls skirts way above the knee, why would/should a boy be allowed to show up in a dress?
[quote]Dr. Pangloss wrote:
[quote]csulli wrote:
There’s no gay community in elementary school.[/quote]
Just as an aside, where does this come from, that a kid wearing a dress is necessariy gay?
You know who gay dudes wanna fuck? Men.
(Generally) gay dudes don’t want to fuck men who look like women any more than (generally) straight dudes want to fuck women that look like men.[/quote]
Okay sorry if it wasn’t clear. I don’t bother with political correctness, but I guess in this case I could have genuinely failed to effectively communicate my thought to you.
When I say “gay” I basically mean LBGT. There is no community for boys who like to dress like girls in elementary school.
And if the kid isn’t LBGT, then wtf is the harm in keeping a straight kid from wearing a dress to school. If he’s straight he’ll probably thank his parents later.
Does the statement make more sense now?
http://blogs.babycenter.com/mom_stories/09262012dad-in-a-skirt-should-write-a-parenting-book/
Interesting read…
[quote]imhungry wrote:
http://blogs.babycenter.com/mom_stories/09262012dad-in-a-skirt-should-write-a-parenting-book/
Interesting read…[/quote]
What a great article, thanks for posting it. I especially liked this quote:
“I couldn’t care more about my boy being a happy, self-assured, compassionate person. I couldn’t care less about the choices he makes on the way to becoming that person as long as they cause no harm to himself or others. The ability to make these choices is his birthright a right that I should help him to exercise, since I am responsible for his birth.”
[quote]csulli wrote:
Okay sorry if it wasn’t clear. I don’t bother with political correctness, but I guess in this case I could have genuinely failed to effectively communicate my thought to you.
When I say “gay” I basically mean LBGT. There is no community for boys who like to dress like girls in elementary school.
And if the kid isn’t LBGT, then wtf is the harm in keeping a straight kid from wearing a dress to school. If he’s straight he’ll probably thank his parents later.
Does the statement make more sense now?[/quote]
It made sense the first time, and I assure you I’m not trying to nitpick, but I’ll ask again, Why is it assumed that a kid in a dress is gay, bi, trans, or questioning (don’t forget the Q!)?
I don’t think you can make any assumptions about his sexuality based on his choice of clothes. Witness the father in the article IH posted.
[quote]Dr. Pangloss wrote:
[quote]csulli wrote:
Okay sorry if it wasn’t clear. I don’t bother with political correctness, but I guess in this case I could have genuinely failed to effectively communicate my thought to you.
When I say “gay” I basically mean LBGT. There is no community for boys who like to dress like girls in elementary school.
And if the kid isn’t LBGT, then wtf is the harm in keeping a straight kid from wearing a dress to school. If he’s straight he’ll probably thank his parents later.
Does the statement make more sense now?[/quote]
It made sense the first time, and I assure you I’m not trying to nitpick, but I’ll ask again, Why is it assumed that a kid in a dress is gay, bi, trans, or questioning (don’t forget the Q!)?
I don’t think you can make any assumptions about his sexuality based on his choice of clothes. Witness the father in the article IH posted.
[/quote]
Wait a second here.
You don’t believe a male who prefers to wear typically female clothing will more likely than not end up being gay or bisexual?
[quote]Dr. Pangloss wrote:
It made sense the first time, and I assure you I’m not trying to nitpick, but I’ll ask again, Why is it assumed that a kid in a dress is gay, bi, trans, or questioning (don’t forget the Q!)?
I don’t think you can make any assumptions about his sexuality based on his choice of clothes. Witness the father in the article IH posted.
[/quote]
I see… Well then at the very least he would be a questioner. Seems too young to be confused about your sexuality though. I mean at young ages little girls and little boys are practically physically the same! They’re both flat chested, the boys have no real difference in musculature or height, etc. I didn’t think nature even put things like that in your head until much later.
[quote]pushharder wrote:
[quote]DBCooper wrote:
[quote]pushharder wrote:
[quote]Dr. Pangloss wrote:
…Perhaps out efforts would be better spent teaching mutual respect rather than mindless conformity.
[/quote]
Mindless conformity.
Mindful conformity.
There is a gulf betwixt the two. How large and easily navigable is it?
[/quote]
Regardless, in this case you’re asking someone to conform to the wishes of people who persecute you rather than conform to who you ARE. I think conforming to who you are and not to who people think you should be, even at an early age, is the epitome of mindful vs. mindless conformity.[/quote]
There is no “regardless” here. This whole debate is about the gulf.
For every “There should be no persecution for [whatever]” I can counter with a dam-burst of an example that would wash yours away.
Wanna play?[/quote]
no.
[quote]Dr. Pangloss wrote:
Some really compassionate, well-thought out posts from one of the minds that brought us RAPE-AXE!!!
[/quote]
My compassion for my fellow human beings is why i founded RAPEAXE!!!