Storm
In
A
Teacup!
As soon as this kid is old enough to go to proper school they’ll more than likely have to wear a uniform of some kind…&…when you consider how many funny phases kids go through, he’ll more than likely have already grown out of the: I wanna be a pirate ALL the time thang.
[quote]Ct. Rockula wrote:
Ok. I get the age thing.
But when will the kid learn that kind of confidence if they get shut down every chance they get?
We are talking about ignoring transgendered kids here now.
You all want to create Buffalo Bills and Dahmers and other monsters like that?
[/quote]
This reminds me of a “guy” I used to know in college. He used to be a she.
Now, there is a difference between sex and gender. Sex is defined by our genitalia and that sort of thing, but gender is more of a role we play. Most of us play the male gender role. You happen to play them all, and to perfection.
This guy felt uncomfortable as a child being forced to play the female gender role and this arose from the fact that he felt more like a man than a woman. He came out as a lesbian around the age of 14 but this didn’t do much to alleviate the out-of-place feeling he constantly had.
To make a long story short, he began testosterone injections, had his breasts removed and “became” a man. Now he lives happily and has a good career and is well-adjusted. The first time I met him I was shocked to find out that he used to be a woman, although I suspected he was probably a fag.
The point here is that this kid in the dress may simply be someone who was born with male sex characteristics but was also born into a female gender role that he cannot live out. I think rather than force this kid to be someone he isn’t it’s better to expose him to the ridicule he will face in school at this age since he’s only going to face more of it as his parents have less and less control over what he does and wears as he gets older.
I also don’t think it’s appropriate to help foster an environment at school where the kids who would persecute this boy are legitimized by forcing the boy into a gender role he wasn’t born to occupy. All we’re talking about is children’s behavior here and I think the behavior that should be targeted and eradicated is the behavior of the children who make fun of the kid for wearing a dress.
Don’t forget, THOSE kids will also face more of these sorts of situations as they get older and I think by addressing this issue now it prepares them to respond to future scenarios in a more constructive, less persecutory manner.
As far as the parental approach goes, it may seem completely backwards to let a boy wear a dress to school but part of being a parent is letting your child learn to express himself in constructive ways. Kids are developing people and part of being a person is being able to express who you are and creating some sort of self-identity.
I think by not allowing a boy to wear a dress part of this development may be stunted. While it may expose him to ridicule, this is a teachable moment for parents and should be treated as an opportunity to explain to the kid that there is nothing wrong with the way he expresses himself if it isn’t hurting others, and wearing a dress doesn’t hurt anyone. Because what happens when a kid gets attacked like that is he/she begins to question who they are and start thinking that there is something wrong with them for thinking the way they do. This isn’t healthy for a child at all and parents who ban these sorts of expressions run the risk of further confirming those dark suspicions about themselves that children may begin to form.
I believe that part of job of the parent is to prepare the child for life outside of the home as an adult. With that in mind, the pirate kid could actually become a pirate some day. The princess kid on the other hand will never grow up to be a princess.
[quote]DBCooper wrote:
The point here is that this kid in the dress may simply be someone who was born with male sex characteristics but was also born into a female gender role that he cannot live out. I think rather than force this kid to be someone he isn’t it’s better to expose him to the ridicule he will face in school at this age since he’s only going to face more of it as his parents have less and less control over what he does and wears as he gets older.
[/quote]
Or he’s just curious… kids are naturally very curious about pretty much everything.
[quote]therajraj wrote:
[quote]DBCooper wrote:
The point here is that this kid in the dress may simply be someone who was born with male sex characteristics but was also born into a female gender role that he cannot live out. I think rather than force this kid to be someone he isn’t it’s better to expose him to the ridicule he will face in school at this age since he’s only going to face more of it as his parents have less and less control over what he does and wears as he gets older.
[/quote]
Or he’s just curious… kids are naturally very curious about pretty much everything.
[/quote]
Well of course he might just be curious. If that’s the case I don’t see any harm in it either. Who gives a fuck if the kid wears a dress? Is he going to get some shit for it? Of course. But guess what? He’s going to get shit for all sorts of things he does for the rest of his life from all sorts of people, just like everyone else. But we don’t insulate our kids from every little thing that may garner them some scorn from their classmates and we aren’t trying to mold our kids entirely into the image that we want them to be.
Part of parenting is balancing the need to exercise some control for the kid’s sake with the need to exercise some latitude in order to let the kid develop into the person he IS rather than the person we may want him to be. So if that means letting him wear a dress while the other kids make fun of him, I think the parent’s role is to help him deal with this rather than say, no you can’t wear that. Because what that has the effect of saying is that, yes, those kids were right to make fun of you.
Being eccentric is better than being mean, so I think the teachable moment here revolves around that, and a parent’s job is to teach their kid that they can express themselves by wearing a dress if they can deal with the shit because that doesn’t hurt anyone else. But making fun of someone for doing that DOES hurt someone else and THAT form of expression should not be tolerated.
[quote]SkyzykS wrote:
I believe that part of job of the parent is to prepare the child for life outside of the home as an adult. With that in mind, the pirate kid could actually become a pirate some day. The princess kid on the other hand will never grow up to be a princess.
[/quote]
But he could grow up to be Justn Bieber.
DB : Do you have kids?
[quote]Cortes wrote:
DB : Do you have kids?[/quote]
No, but I’ve worked with kids at all age levels at all sorts of things from coaching to teaching to volunteering with foster children for years now, so I’m not clueless when it comes to instilling certain values in them in this respect. I’ve been a pretty important part of raising my nieces as well.
Look, I get that this is a potentially horrific situation the kid could be putting himself in by wearing a fucking dress to school. And I don’t know if this is a transgendered kid we’re talking about here or not, and I also don’t know if the parents can even come to some conclusion about that at this age anyways.
But I think it’s probably pretty safe to assume that something along those lines is what’s going on here. The kid is a fruitcake, he’s probably as queer as a three-dollar bill. Well, I don’t think the answer that parents should have for that is to stifle his transsexuality if that is the case.They should say that they support their decision either way and that as their parent they will fight as hard as they would for any other kid for them to go about their business without being assailed all the time. I think they should certainly WARN the kid that, hey look, you could get made fun of pretty severely and you might even have to physically defend yourself at some point.
That’s when the parent comes in and teaches him how to put up a decent fight if it comes down to that and avoid it otherwise. If you aren’t sure if that’s how the kid really is or if this is just a phase, simply explore it with him. You can explore the issue with him without creating the impression that there’s something inherently wrong with him if that IS the case.
If a kid is transgendered or flamboyantly gay or whatever, I think his parents have a responsibility to accept that as who that person is and create a safe environment where no matter how poorly the rest of the world treats them, at least their own parents support them and make clear that they love their child regardless of what type of person he/she is.
For children and adolescents, it can be a very harsh thing to grow up in a home where not only does the outside world largely persecute you for who you are, your own parents think there is something fundamentally wrong with who you are. A lot of societal ills such as drug addiction, alcoholism, suicide and depression can fester in these sorts of climates. When this happens in a poor home, that’s a recipe for a child with virtually every card in the deck of life stacked against him/her.
I mean, for Christ’s Sake, we see parents who still love their kids after they’ve committed a handful of gang-related murders or whatever all the time. If THAT is possible, I can’t see why parents can’t create a supportive environment for a kid who’s just transgendered and not some legitimate societal outcast like a quadruple-murderer/drug trafficker.
[quote]Christine wrote:
[quote]SkyzykS wrote:
I believe that part of job of the parent is to prepare the child for life outside of the home as an adult. With that in mind, the pirate kid could actually become a pirate some day. The princess kid on the other hand will never grow up to be a princess.
[/quote]
But he could grow up to be Justn Bieber.[/quote]
What the fuck is a Justin Bieber?
there’s a kid who lives along the road from me, can’t be older than 4 or 5, goes EVERYWHERE dressed in a Buzz Lightyear outfit.
Fuckin’ adorable.
But seriously, I’m with Gorillamon on this, load of fuss about nothing. He’ll grow out of this and onto something else. No big deal.
Some really compassionate, well-thought out posts from one of the minds that brought us RAPE-AXE!!!
I’m no parent nor have I worked with kids.
I think age 10-12 is way too early for someone to determine they are gay/straight/transgender.
If at 16-17 they want to live an alternative lifestyle fine. But until then you’ll be groomed to be a boy if you have a pair of testicles
[quote]therajraj wrote:
I’m no parent nor have I worked with kids.
I think age 10-12 is way too early for someone to determine they are gay/straight/transgender.
If at 16-17 they want to live an alternative lifestyle fine. But until then you’ll be groomed to be a boy if you have a pair of testicles
[/quote]
What age did you start fapping?
I was 12 my Freshman year of High School
[quote]Derek542 wrote:
[quote]therajraj wrote:
I’m no parent nor have I worked with kids.
I think age 10-12 is way too early for someone to determine they are gay/straight/transgender.
If at 16-17 they want to live an alternative lifestyle fine. But until then you’ll be groomed to be a boy if you have a pair of testicles
[/quote]
What age did you start fapping?
I was 12 my Freshman year of High School[/quote]
You were 12 in 9th grade? What?.. did they push you ahead, Genius?
[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:
[quote]Derek542 wrote:
[quote]therajraj wrote:
I’m no parent nor have I worked with kids.
I think age 10-12 is way too early for someone to determine they are gay/straight/transgender.
If at 16-17 they want to live an alternative lifestyle fine. But until then you’ll be groomed to be a boy if you have a pair of testicles
[/quote]
What age did you start fapping?
I was 12 my Freshman year of High School[/quote]
You were 12 in 9th grade? What?.. did they push you ahead, Genius?
[/quote]
Just started school early. What sucked was I was the last person to get my DL, didnt get to drive until half way through my Junior year.
[quote]Derek542 wrote:
[quote]therajraj wrote:
I’m no parent nor have I worked with kids.
I think age 10-12 is way too early for someone to determine they are gay/straight/transgender.
If at 16-17 they want to live an alternative lifestyle fine. But until then you’ll be groomed to be a boy if you have a pair of testicles
[/quote]
What age did you start fapping?
I was 12 my Freshman year of High School[/quote]
[quote]therajraj wrote:
I’m no parent nor have I worked with kids.
I think age 10-12 is way too early for someone to determine they are gay/straight/transgender.
If at 16-17 they want to live an alternative lifestyle fine. But until then you’ll be groomed to be a boy if you have a pair of testicles
[/quote]
10-12 yrs old? That seems pretty damn old to know what you like.
[quote]DBCooper wrote:
[quote]Cortes wrote:
DB : Do you have kids?[/quote]
No, but I’ve worked with kids at all age levels at all sorts of things from coaching to teaching to volunteering with foster children for years now, so I’m not clueless when it comes to instilling certain values in them in this respect. I’ve been a pretty important part of raising my nieces as well.
Look, I get that this is a potentially horrific situation the kid could be putting himself in by wearing a fucking dress to school. And I don’t know if this is a transgendered kid we’re talking about here or not, and I also don’t know if the parents can even come to some conclusion about that at this age anyways.
But I think it’s probably pretty safe to assume that something along those lines is what’s going on here. The kid is a fruitcake, he’s probably as queer as a three-dollar bill. Well, I don’t think the answer that parents should have for that is to stifle his transsexuality if that is the case.They should say that they support their decision either way and that as their parent they will fight as hard as they would for any other kid for them to go about their business without being assailed all the time. I think they should certainly WARN the kid that, hey look, you could get made fun of pretty severely and you might even have to physically defend yourself at some point.
That’s when the parent comes in and teaches him how to put up a decent fight if it comes down to that and avoid it otherwise. If you aren’t sure if that’s how the kid really is or if this is just a phase, simply explore it with him. You can explore the issue with him without creating the impression that there’s something inherently wrong with him if that IS the case.
If a kid is transgendered or flamboyantly gay or whatever, I think his parents have a responsibility to accept that as who that person is and create a safe environment where no matter how poorly the rest of the world treats them, at least their own parents support them and make clear that they love their child regardless of what type of person he/she is.
For children and adolescents, it can be a very harsh thing to grow up in a home where not only does the outside world largely persecute you for who you are, your own parents think there is something fundamentally wrong with who you are. A lot of societal ills such as drug addiction, alcoholism, suicide and depression can fester in these sorts of climates. When this happens in a poor home, that’s a recipe for a child with virtually every card in the deck of life stacked against him/her.
I mean, for Christ’s Sake, we see parents who still love their kids after they’ve committed a handful of gang-related murders or whatever all the time. If THAT is possible, I can’t see why parents can’t create a supportive environment for a kid who’s just transgendered and not some legitimate societal outcast like a quadruple-murderer/drug trafficker.[/quote]
You make a lot of points. I’ll attempt to be as succinct as I can:
We almost never encounter an argument that sexual repression is critically damaging unless it is being applied to some minority group. You should be well aware, as a male with a libido, that we are CONSTANTLY challenged with keeping our actual sexual desires and inclinations suppressed.
If the ability to read minds ever becomes a reality, I’ll bet my left testicle we’ll find that repression is in fact the standard human condition. If most males made perfectly clear what they actually wanted and felt all the time, the human race might suddenly find itself in danger of extinction as the chivalrous fantasies and misconceptions of our motivations were suddenly and permanently obliterated from the minds of all women.
But we manage to keep those urges down, inside of us, because we know what would happen if we really did where our hearts on our sleeves. And guess what. The vast, vast majority of us don’t turn into John Wayne Gacy.
Kids need to learn that you don’t always get what you want. That’s a good thing. I, for one, despise wearing a suit and tie. A lot of men feel the same way. That’s fine if you are TC Luoma, but most guys who want to get ahead in life need to wear the suit and tie. That’s just how it is.
That’s a form of discipline and self-sacrifice one has to endure to get what you want, because we live in a society filled with people other than ourselves, who’ve loosely agreed to reward this kind of behavior. The kid whose parents are letting him dress like Sailor Venus every day is NOT receiving training in those habits at the time in life when it is most important.
A kid who doesn’t want to wear a suit and tie later in life will learn that, while that may not be what he wants to do, it’s what he HAS to do, to get along and to get what he wants. He’ll also learn that you can still be yourself even when you don’t get to do every single thing your little pitter pattering princess heart desires.
Now, if he is like me, and decides he doesn’t want to ever wear a suit and tie and starts his own business and makes that his rule, that’s fine. But he needs to be trained to be able to take it or leave it FIRST.
I don’t know that that is true and it sure as hell has never been PROVEN to be true, and I’d just as soon prefer to err on the side of caution and have my boys suck it up and put on a belt and a pair of trousers, even if they want to wear a kilt. Because it’s just as possible, from where I’m sitting, to say that maybe it’s lax parenting and a cowardly fear of conflict masquerading as libertinism that is causing all of this gender confusion in the first place.
