Does Prayer Work? Is There a God?

[quote]forlife wrote:
You can choose not to share why you believe what you do, but I venture it is for one or more of the following reasons:

  1. Because god has performed some miracle in your life, which wouldn’t have been possible otherwise.
    See above discussion, in which when pressed, people admit their god doesn’t actually do anything measurable in the physical world. Scientific studies confirm this. Any effects of “god” are limited to the spiritual realm, which are conveniently unmeasurable and unconfirmable.

  2. Because god has spoken to your heart in a way you can’t deny.
    The human mind is capable of concocting all kinds of experiences, particularly the subconscious mind, which by definition is beyond our awareness, but still affects our perceptions and experiences. Psychology has confirmed this. More significantly, millions of people fervently believe their god has confirmed the “truth” in their hearts. This is logically impossible, since one person’s “truth” is often diametrically opposed to another person’s “truth”. It is impossible for both to be right, yet both devoutly believe their god has confirmed that they are right. Clearly, it is possible to have deep spiritual experiences confirming a particular belief, which are not in fact due to divinity.

  3. Because other factors like history or the nature of the universe prove that there is a god.
    Millions use history and the nature of the universe to prove their particular god is real, yet they have diametrically opposed beliefs about the nature of that god. Logically, it is impossible for both to be right, so once again these factors cannot reliably be used to confirm the existence of anyone’s god.

Bottom line: There is no valid reason for choosing god X over god Y or god Z. Based on the existing lack of evidence, the most honest approach is to withhold belief in any of these gods, unless real evidence actually presents itself at a later point in time.[/quote]

  1. Maybe I saw an image of the Virgin Mary in a ham sandwich.

Venture as much as you’d like. It did provide some amusement.

[quote]Buff HardBack wrote:
Again I will ask this question because, for reasons unknown, no one wants to give me an answer. Why hasnt god ever in recorded history healed an amputee? Im guessing plenty of them have prayed for a limb back.[/quote]

I would also like to hear a response to this. I am curious. SLOTH or any others here. It is curious to me that folks seem to be avoiding these questions about why won’t God heal amputees. If any of you folks who believe in God and/or prayer have any answer to this simple, but very important question, it would add to this very good dialogue.

[quote]rohay wrote:
Buff HardBack wrote:
Again I will ask this question because, for reasons unknown, no one wants to give me an answer. Why hasnt god ever in recorded history healed an amputee? Im guessing plenty of them have prayed for a limb back.

I would also like to hear a response to this. I am curious. SLOTH or any others here. It is curious to me that folks seem to be avoiding these questions about why won’t God heal amputees. If any of you folks who believe in God and/or prayer have any answer to this simple, but very important question, it would add to this very good dialogue.

[/quote]

You might as well ask why God doesn’t heal esophageal varices.

Some of us believe Christ and the apostles worked miracles. Perhaps some of us believe Saints have worked a miracle or two. Were any amputees healed? Off the top of my head, I have no idea.

I think it’s because god actually prefers amputees (Matthew 5):

[quote]29 And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.

30 And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.[/quote]

[quote]forlife wrote:
I think it’s because god actually prefers amputees (Matthew 5):

29 And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.

30 And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.[/quote]

I’m sightless and limbless. I’m good to go.

[quote]Sloth wrote:
rohay wrote:
Buff HardBack wrote:
Again I will ask this question because, for reasons unknown, no one wants to give me an answer. Why hasnt god ever in recorded history healed an amputee? Im guessing plenty of them have prayed for a limb back.

I would also like to hear a response to this. I am curious. SLOTH or any others here. It is curious to me that folks seem to be avoiding these questions about why won’t God heal amputees. If any of you folks who believe in God and/or prayer have any answer to this simple, but very important question, it would add to this very good dialogue.

You might as well ask why God doesn’t heal esophageal varices.

Some of us believe Christ and the apostles worked miracles. Perhaps some of us believe Saints have worked a miracle or two. Were any amputees healed? Off the top of my head, I have no idea. [/quote]

To answer your question…no. Throughout recorded human history there has never been one recorded instance of an amputee regaining a lost limp. If there is a god, then what is his beef with amputees?

Of course, the point of asking about amputees is that spontaneous limb restoration is impossible. It would be a real miracle for it to happen. It’s not just a coincidence that the religious “miracles” claimed by people can all be explained by other means, but that real “miracles” which couldn’t happen spontaneously never happen.

[quote]Buff HardBack wrote:
Sloth wrote:
rohay wrote:
Buff HardBack wrote:
Again I will ask this question because, for reasons unknown, no one wants to give me an answer. Why hasnt god ever in recorded history healed an amputee? Im guessing plenty of them have prayed for a limb back.

I would also like to hear a response to this. I am curious. SLOTH or any others here. It is curious to me that folks seem to be avoiding these questions about why won’t God heal amputees. If any of you folks who believe in God and/or prayer have any answer to this simple, but very important question, it would add to this very good dialogue.

You might as well ask why God doesn’t heal esophageal varices.

Some of us believe Christ and the apostles worked miracles. Perhaps some of us believe Saints have worked a miracle or two. Were any amputees healed? Off the top of my head, I have no idea.

To answer your question…no. Throughout recorded human history there has never been one recorded instance of an amputee regaining a lost limp. If there is a god, then what is his beef with amputees?[/quote]

What’s his beef with those suffering from peanut allergies? Read my posts for a position on prayer, the reason for prayer, etc.

Forlife said: This is hamster wheel logic:

  1. We believe in the Christian God.

  2. Why? Because the Christian God has answered our prayers, so we know he is real.

  3. How has he answered our prayers? Not through anything affecting the real world, but through making us better people.

  4. Can’t we be better people without believing in the Christian God? Yes, but we choose not to because we believe in the Christian God.

Personally I’m sick of the FAG logic that if I make believe there is no GOD I can carry on my sick disgusting perverted life style without fear of repercussion from GOD good luck. Think about everything in this GOD’S universe do you think it really happened by chance. Lets see the air we breathe , The water we drink. The human mind ,and brain with all of its capabilities. The sun is in the perfect spot in heaven that we neither freeze nor get barbecued out of existence period! The miracle of life which we abort. In the old testament satinists sacraficed live babies to baal (satan)in front of obelisks. The more innocent blood they shed the more power he granted them (They prayed to satan). This happens in the usa everyday thru abortion partial birth abortion turns it into almost a human sacrafice. Our obelisk is in Washington D.C. it is the Washington monument.

Prayer is not some vehicle like a magic genie in a bottle. Sin in your life GOD doesn’t hear! Refuse to forgive others GOD doesn’t hear! Do your best to deny GOD ,BUT what are you going to do with the Jews. The Bible is written about them ,and GOD used them to write it. Ever see the Jews pray at the wailing wall in Jerusalem . Oh that’s right prayer doesn’t work. Abraham had two son’s Isaac the father of the jews ,and Ishmael the father of the arabs he promised to bless both people’s differently ,and he has. look around this usa,and the world ,and tell me what the Jews don’t own. The arabs are blessed with oil money ,but the Jews are God’S chosen people,and he protect’s them,but also makes an example of them as to what happens when you disobey GOD,and PRAY they do so he will forgive them.

Satanist’s know the bible is true that’s why hitler and his gang were used to try to kill every Jew on earth during ww2. God promised to put his people back in their homeland,and he did just that in 1948. If Hitler succeded then GOD ,and the bible would be a lie,but they failed. I know the jews didn’t pray for centuries for the safe return to their homeland either. Prayer works in GOD’S own time he has no rush YOU DO!

Most of our government is made up of 33rd degree scottish right freemasons. The work to destroy our country as I write. They are bringing about a “NEW WORLD ORDER” The Judeo Christian old world order is on the way out by force. They are giving birth to the Masonic Satanic NWO. The one world government will be ruled by antichrist who will be a fag ,and have no need of women. So yes the fags will have their day for a short season. So by now your scratching your head so let me show who mason’s pray to pay special attention to Albert Pike he has a satanic spirt advisor who walked at his right side. He predicted that it would take three world wars to bring about the NWO who would fight ,and the outcome. He has been spot on on the first two ,and the predicted third starting between the arab’s and jews is well on the way. He died well before ww1 started ,and he PRAYED to satan for guidance. Oh and Forlife continue to mock and try to disprove GOD all you want YOU CAN’T see you ,and your kind have been foretold. There are three sets of 7 curses in the book of Revelation for non-believers. 7 seals, 7 bowls ,and 7 trumpets ,and you will continue to curse GOD the whole time it is happening to you. PRAY then that you would be forgiven while there is still time. The following is a cut and paste.
DO FREEMASONS WORSHIP SATAN/LUCIFER ?

Over time there has been much debate as to whom the true god of Freemasonry really is. In this article we will be quoting Masonic authorities to come to a conclusion that it is Lucifer/Satan who is the god of the lodge. If you are a Mason I plead with you to examine the truth which is found only in the Holy Bible. If you are a ‘Christian’ Mason I ask you why you belong to a Lucifer adoring cult which promotes the ‘Mystery Religions’ that teach reincarnation and revere pagan deities.
Note: Most Masons do not worship Satan. But in the higher initation degrees they all must participate in rituals
such as drinking wine from a human skull whilst kneeling at a black altar with serpents behind it.

WHO IS LUCIFER?
Lucifer’s fall from heaven is recorded in the Bible (King James Bible only) when he wanted to take God’s place as Lord over all.
How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! How art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit. Isaiah 14:12-15

In the New Testament of the Holy Bible , Jesus further exposed Lucifer when he stated
“I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven” Luke 10:18
The Fall of Lucifer/Satan is also recorded in Revelation Chapter 12.
The Word Of God clearly indicates that Lucifer and Satan are the same person.

MASONIC DECEPTION
The Holy Bible describes Lucifer as " that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world" Revelation 12:9
Deception is a strong element in Freemasonry. The Masonic Hierarchy intentionally misleads lower degree Masons. 33rd Degree Freemason Albert Pike stated this fact well in his well known book ‘Morals And Dogma’, “Masonry, like all the Religions, all the Mysteries conceals its secrets from all except the Adepts and Sages, or the Elect, and uses false explainations and misinterpretations of its symbols to mislead those who deserve only to be mislead…page 104-105 The Blue Degrees are but the outer court or portico of the Temple. Part of the symbols are displayed there to Initiate, but he is intentionally misled by false interpretations. It is not intended that he shall understand them, but it is intended he shall imagine he understands them.” page 819
Albert Pike was a Luciferian (Follower of Lucifer) who confessed Lucifer as his own god. (see his quote below) He was the former Sovereign Grand Commander of the Supreme Council of Grand Sovereign Inspectors General of the 33rd Degree. There is also very strong evidence to prove that Pike founded the Klu Klux Klan.

Below are quotes written by high level Masons praising Lucifer

‘The Mysteries Of Magic’ by Eliphas Levi
“What is more absurd and more impious than to attribute the name of Lucifer to the devil, that is, to personified evil. The intellectual Lucifer is the spirit of intelligence and love; it is the paraclete, it is the Holy Spirit, while the physical Lucifer is the great agent of universal magnetism.” page 428

‘The Book Of Black Magic’ by Arthur Edward Waite 33Ã?°
“First Conjuration Addressed to Emperor Lucifer. Emperor Lucifer, Master and Prince of Rebellious Spirits, I adjure thee to leave thine abode, in what-ever quarter of the world it may be situated and come hither to communicate with me. I command and I conjure thee in the Name of the Mighty Living God, Father, Son and Holy Ghost, to appear without noise and without …” page 244

‘The Secret Teaching Of All Ages’ by Manly Palmer Hall 33Ã?°
"I hereby promise the Great Spirit Lucifuge, Prince of Demons, that each year I will bring unto him a human soul to do with as as it may please him, and in return Lucifuge promises to bestow upon me the treasures of the earth and fulfil my every desire for the length of my natural life. If I fail to bring him each year the offering specified above, then my own soul shall be forfeit to him. Signed…
{ Invocant signs pact with his own blood } " page CIV

‘The Lost Keys Of Freemasonry’ by Manly Palmer Hall 33Ã?°
“When The Mason learns that the Key to the warrior on the block is the proper application of the dynamo of living power, he has learned the Mystery of his Craft. The seething energies of Lucifer are in his hands and before he may step onward and upward, he must prove his ability to properly apply this energy.” page 48

‘The Secret Doctrine’ by Helena Petrovna Blavatsky
“Lucifer represents…Life…Thought…Progress…Civilization…Liberty…Independance…Lucifer is the Logos…the Serpent, the Savior.” on pages 171, 225, 255 (Volume II)

“It is Satan who is the God of our planet and the only God.” pages 215, 216, 220, 245, 255, 533, (VI)

"The Celestial Virgin which thus becomes the Mother of Gods and Devils at one and the same time; for she is the ever-loving beneficent Deity…but in antiquity and reality Lucifer or Luciferius is the name. Lucifer is divine and terrestial Light, ‘the Holy Ghost’ and “Satan’ at one and the same time.” page 539 (Volume?)

Albert Pike 33�°
"That which we must say to a crowd is - We worship a God, but it is the God that one adores without superstition. To you, Sovereign Grand Inspectors General, we say this, that you may repeat it to the Brethren of the 32nd, 31st, and 30th degrees - The Masonic Religion should be, by all of us initates of the high degrees, maintained in the purity of the Luciferian Doctrine.

If Lucifer were not God, would Adonay whose deeds prove his cruelty, perdify and hatred of man, barbarism and repulsion for science, would Adonay and his priests, calumniate him?
Yes, Lucifer is God, and unfortunately Adonay is also god. For the eternal law is that there is no light without shade, no beauty without ugliness, no white without black, for the absolute can only exist as two gods: darkness being necessary to the statue, and the brake to the locomotive.

Thus, the doctrine of Satanism is a heresy; and the true and pure philosophical religion is the belief in Lucifer, the equal of Adonay; but Lucifer, God of Light and God of Good, is struggling for humanity against Adonay, the God of Darkness and Evil."
Instructions to the 23 Supreme Councils of the World, July 14, 1889. Recorded by A.C. De La Rive in La Femme et l’Enfant dans la FrancMaconnerie Universelle on page 588

"Lucifer, the Light-bearer! Strange and mysterious name to give to the Spirit of Darkness! Lucifer, the son of the morning! Is it he who bears the Light, and with it’s splendors intolerable blinds feeble, sensual or selfish Souls? Doubt it not! Morals and Dogma page 321

[quote]forlife wrote:
Of course, the point of asking about amputees is that spontaneous limb restoration is impossible. It would be a real miracle for it to happen. It’s not just a coincidence that the religious “miracles” claimed by people can all be explained by other means, but that real “miracles” which couldn’t happen spontaneously never happen.[/quote]

Exactly. Its an Impossible miracle. Yet I thought that god was able to do anything.

Alrighty then.

[quote]GrandpaButch wrote:
Forlife said: This is hamster wheel logic:

  1. We believe in the Christian God.

  2. Why? Because the Christian God has answered our prayers, so we know he is real.

  3. How has he answered our prayers? Not through anything affecting the real world, but through making us better people.

  4. Can’t we be better people without believing in the Christian God? Yes, but we choose not to because we believe in the Christian God.

Personally I’m sick of the FAG logic that if I make believe there is no GOD I can carry on my sick disgusting perverted life style without fear of repercussion from GOD good luck. Think about everything in this GOD’S universedo you think it really happened by chance. Lets see the air we breathe , The water we drink. The human mind ,and brain with all of its capabilities. The sun is in the perfect spot in heaven that we neither freeze nor get barbecued out of existence period! The miracle of life which we abort. In the old testament satinists sacraficed live babies to baal (satan)in front of obelisks. The more innocent blood they shed the more power he granted them (They prayed to satan). This happens in the usa everyday thru abortion partial birth abortion turns it into almost a human sacrafice. Our obelisk is in Washington D.C. it is the Washington monument.

Prayer is not some vehicle like a masgic genie in a bottle. Sin in your life GOD doesn’t hear! Refuse to forgive others GOD doesn’t hear! Do your best to deny GOD ,BUT what are you going to do with the Jews. The Bible is written about them ,and GOD used them to write it. Ever see the Jews pray at the wailing wall in Jerusalem . Oh that’s right prayer doesn’t work. Abraham had two son’s Isaac the father of the jews ,and Ishmael the father of the arabs he promised to bless both people’s differently ,and he has. look around this usa,and the world ,and tell me what the Jews don’t own. The arabs are blessed with oil money ,but the Jews are God’S chosen people,and he protect’s them,but also makes an example of them as to what happens when you disobey GOD,and PRAY they do so he will forgive them.

Satanist’s know the bible is true that’s why hitler and his gang were used to try to kill every Jew on earth during ww2. God promised to put his people back in their homeland,and he did just that in 1948. If Hitler succeded then GOD ,and the bible would be a lie,but they failed. I know the jews didn’t pray for centuries for the safe return to their homeland either. Prayer works in GOD’S own time he has no rush YOU DO!

Most of our government is made up of 33rd degree scottish right freemasons. The work to destroy our country as I write. They are bringing about a “NEW WORLD ORDER” The Judeo Christian old world order is on the way out by force. They are giving birth to the Masonic Satanic NWO. The one world government will be ruled by antichrist who will be a fag ,and have no need of women. So yes the fags will have their day for a short season. So by now your scratching your head so let me show who mason’s pray to pay special attention to Albert Pike he has a satanic spirt advisor who walked at his right side. He predicted that it would take three world wars to bring about the NWO who would fight ,and the outcome. He has been spot on on the first two ,and the predicted third starting between the arab’s and jews is well on the way. He died well before ww1 started ,and he PRAYED to satan for guidance. Oh and Forlife continue to mock and try to disprove GOD all you want YOU CAN’T see you ,and your kind have been foretold. There are three sets of 7 curses in the book of Revelation for non-believers. 7 seals, 7 bowls ,and 7 trumpets ,and you will continue to curse GOD the whole time it is happening to you. PRAY then that you would be forgiven while there is still time. The following is a cut and paste.
DO FREEMASONS WORSHIP SATAN/LUCIFER ?

Over time there has been much debate as to whom the true god of Freemasonry really is. In this article we will be quoting Masonic authorities to come to a conclusion that it is Lucifer/Satan who is the god of the lodge. If you are a Mason I plead with you to examine the truth which is found only in the Holy Bible. If you are a ‘Christian’ Mason I ask you why you belong to a Lucifer adoring cult which promotes the ‘Mystery Religions’ that teach reincarnation and revere pagan deities.
Note: Most Masons do not worship Satan. But in the higher initation degrees they all must participate in rituals
such as drinking wine from a human skull whilst kneeling at a black altar with serpents behind it.

WHO IS LUCIFER?
Lucifer’s fall from heaven is recorded in the Bible (King James Bible only) when he wanted to take God’s place as Lord over all.
How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! How art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit. Isaiah 14:12-15

In the New Testament of the Holy Bible , Jesus further exposed Lucifer when he stated
“I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven” Luke 10:18
The Fall of Lucifer/Satan is also recorded in Revelation Chapter 12.
The Word Of God clearly indicates that Lucifer and Satan are the same person.

MASONIC DECEPTION
The Holy Bible describes Lucifer as " that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world" Revelation 12:9
Deception is a strong element in Freemasonry. The Masonic Hierarchy intentionally misleads lower degree Masons. 33rd Degree Freemason Albert Pike stated this fact well in his well known book ‘Morals And Dogma’, “Masonry, like all the Religions, all the Mysteries conceals its secrets from all except the Adepts and Sages, or the Elect, and uses false explainations and misinterpretations of its symbols to mislead those who deserve only to be mislead…page 104-105 The Blue Degrees are but the outer court or portico of the Temple. Part of the symbols are displayed there to Initiate, but he is intentionally misled by false interpretations. It is not intended that he shall understand them, but it is intended he shall imagine he understands them.” page 819
Albert Pike was a Luciferian (Follower of Lucifer) who confessed Lucifer as his own god. (see his quote below) He was the former Sovereign Grand Commander of the Supreme Council of Grand Sovereign Inspectors General of the 33rd Degree. There is also very strong evidence to prove that Pike founded the Klu Klux Klan.

Below are quotes written by high level Masons praising Lucifer

‘The Mysteries Of Magic’ by Eliphas Levi
“What is more absurd and more impious than to attribute the name of Lucifer to the devil, that is, to personified evil. The intellectual Lucifer is the spirit of intelligence and love; it is the paraclete, it is the Holy Spirit, while the physical Lucifer is the great agent of universal magnetism.” page 428

‘The Book Of Black Magic’ by Arthur Edward Waite 33Ã?°
“First Conjuration Addressed to Emperor Lucifer. Emperor Lucifer, Master and Prince of Rebellious Spirits, I adjure thee to leave thine abode, in what-ever quarter of the world it may be situated and come hither to communicate with me. I command and I conjure thee in the Name of the Mighty Living God, Father, Son and Holy Ghost, to appear without noise and without …” page 244

‘The Secret Teaching Of All Ages’ by Manly Palmer Hall 33Ã?°
"I hereby promise the Great Spirit Lucifuge, Prince of Demons, that each year I will bring unto him a human soul to do with as as it may please him, and in return Lucifuge promises to bestow upon me the treasures of the earth and fulfil my every desire for the length of my natural life. If I fail to bring him each year the offering specified above, then my own soul shall be forfeit to him. Signed…
{ Invocant signs pact with his own blood } " page CIV

‘The Lost Keys Of Freemasonry’ by Manly Palmer Hall 33Ã?°
“When The Mason learns that the Key to the warrior on the block is the proper application of the dynamo of living power, he has learned the Mystery of his Craft. The seething energies of Lucifer are in his hands and before he may step onward and upward, he must prove his ability to properly apply this energy.” page 48

‘The Secret Doctrine’ by Helena Petrovna Blavatsky
“Lucifer represents…Life…Thought…Progress…Civilization…Liberty…Independance…Lucifer is the Logos…the Serpent, the Savior.” on pages 171, 225, 255 (Volume II)

“It is Satan who is the God of our planet and the only God.” pages 215, 216, 220, 245, 255, 533, (VI)

"The Celestial Virgin which thus becomes the Mother of Gods and Devils at one and the same time; for she is the ever-loving beneficent Deity…but in antiquity and reality Lucifer or Luciferius is the name. Lucifer is divine and terrestial Light, ‘the Holy Ghost’ and “Satan’ at one and the same time.” page 539 (Volume?)

Albert Pike 33�°
"That which we must say to a crowd is - We worship a God, but it is the God that one adores without superstition. To you, Sovereign Grand Inspectors General, we say this, that you may repeat it to the Brethren of the 32nd, 31st, and 30th degrees - The Masonic Religion should be, by all of us initates of the high degrees, maintained in the purity of the Luciferian Doctrine.

If Lucifer were not God, would Adonay whose deeds prove his cruelty, perdify and hatred of man, barbarism and repulsion for science, would Adonay and his priests, calumniate him?
Yes, Lucifer is God, and unfortunately Adonay is also god. For the eternal law is that there is no light without shade, no beauty without ugliness, no white without black, for the absolute can only exist as two gods: darkness being necessary to the statue, and the brake to the locomotive.

Thus, the doctrine of Satanism is a heresy; and the true and pure philosophical religion is the belief in Lucifer, the equal of Adonay; but Lucifer, God of Light and God of Good, is struggling for humanity against Adonay, the God of Darkness and Evil."
Instructions to the 23 Supreme Councils of the World, July 14, 1889. Recorded by A.C. De La Rive in La Femme et l’Enfant dans la FrancMaconnerie Universelle on page 588

"Lucifer, the Light-bearer! Strange and mysterious name to give to the Spirit of Darkness! Lucifer, the son of the morning! Is it he who bears the Light, and with it’s splendors intolerable blinds feeble, sensual or selfish Souls? Doubt it not! Morals and Dogma page 321

If you are shocked at these quotes then wait until I add the rest of them on this page and the evidence that these books are currently distributed by Masonic Lodges and also published by them!!!

Some Web Pages For Freemasons To See
Should A Christian Become A Mason?
The Question Of Freemasonry
Why I Left Freemasonry by Charles G. Finney, D.D.
Ministry to Freemasons at Ephesians 5-11 org
Freemasonry On Trial
Freemasonry Resource Files
[/quote]

How the Freemasons and a NWO come into this discussion, I’ll never know.

[quote]Sloth wrote:
Buff HardBack wrote:
Sloth wrote:
rohay wrote:
Buff HardBack wrote:
Again I will ask this question because, for reasons unknown, no one wants to give me an answer. Why hasnt god ever in recorded history healed an amputee? Im guessing plenty of them have prayed for a limb back.

I would also like to hear a response to this. I am curious. SLOTH or any others here. It is curious to me that folks seem to be avoiding these questions about why won’t God heal amputees. If any of you folks who believe in God and/or prayer have any answer to this simple, but very important question, it would add to this very good dialogue.

You might as well ask why God doesn’t heal esophageal varices.

Some of us believe Christ and the apostles worked miracles. Perhaps some of us believe Saints have worked a miracle or two. Were any amputees healed? Off the top of my head, I have no idea.

To answer your question…no. Throughout recorded human history there has never been one recorded instance of an amputee regaining a lost limp. If there is a god, then what is his beef with amputees?

What’s his beef with those suffering from peanut allergies? Read my posts for a position on prayer, the reason for prayer, etc.[/quote]

Fair enough. I appreciate your response and willingness to address the question. I have read your positions on prayer and reasons for prayer and believe that you hold these positions with a very real and honest desire to have goodness prevade in the world.

I do not, however, believe any of the views you’ve shared are relevant, at all, to amputees. The amputees question really forces us to face certain realities head on and I would urge you to wrestle with these realities in the same spirit of openness, love and desire for goodness that you have shown in your approach to faith.

Forlife said: Alrighty then. Forlife I almost forgot GOD bless you in the name of our Lord and Savior JESUS CHRIST may he keep ,and protect you. The Mason’s and NWO got in this discussion to show you who some people pray to . Why don’t you attack who they pray to why just the Judeo Christian GOD scared of him aren’t ya!

I think George Carlin may have said it better than anyone with regards to prayer…

Trillions and trillions of prayers every day asking and begging and pleading for favors. ´Do this´ ´Gimme that´ ´I want a new car´ ´I want a better job´. And most of this praying takes place on Sunday. And I say fine, pray for anything you want. Pray for anything. But…what about the divine plan? Remember that? The divine plan. Long time ago god made a divine plan. Gave it a lot of thought. Decided it was a good plan. Put it into practice. And for billion and billions of years the divine plan has been doing just fine. Now you come along and pray for something.

Well, suppose the thing you want
isn’t in god’s divine plan. What do you want him to do? Change his plan? Just for you? Doesn’t it seem a little arrogant? It’s a divine plan. What’s the use of being god if every run-down schmuck with a two dollar prayer book
can come along and fuck up your plan?

And here’s something else, another problem you might have; suppose your prayers aren’t answered. What do you say? ´Well it’s god’s will. God’s will be done.´ Fine, but if it gods will and he’s going to do whatever he wants to anyway; why the fuck bother praying in the first place? Seems like a big waste of time to me. Couldn’t you just skip the praying part and get right to his will?"

[quote]GrandpaButch wrote:
Forlife said: Alrighty then. Forlife I almost forgot GOD bless you in the name of our Lord and Savior JESUS CHRIST may he keep ,and protect you. The Mason’s and NWO got in this discussion to show you who some people pray to . Why don’t you attack who they pray to why just the Judeo Christian GOD scared of him aren’t ya![/quote]

I’m an equal opportunity agnostic. I don’t see any more evidence for your god than for the thousands of other gods that people choose to worship. Thanks for the good wishes, but I’m assuming that they won’t have any more effect than the prayers for heart patients that we talked about earlier.

Kudos though, for saying gays are gonna rule the world :slight_smile:

[quote]forlife wrote:
GrandpaButch wrote:
Forlife said: Alrighty then. Forlife I almost forgot GOD bless you in the name of our Lord and Savior JESUS CHRIST may he keep ,and protect you. The Mason’s and NWO got in this discussion to show you who some people pray to . Why don’t you attack who they pray to why just the Judeo Christian GOD scared of him aren’t ya!

I’m an equal opportunity agnostic. I don’t see any more evidence for your god than for the thousands of other gods that people choose to worship. Thanks for the good wishes, but I’m assuming that they won’t have any more effect than the prayers for heart patients that we talked about earlier.

Kudos though, for saying gays are gonna rule the world :)[/quote]

I’m pretty, wait…I’m positive God (with a capital G) tells us not to test his powers.

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
I’m pretty, wait…I’m positive God (with a capital G) tells us not to test his powers.[/quote]

I’m positive Pook’s Vacuum Cleaner (with a capital VC) similarly tells us not to test its powers.

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
forlife wrote:
GrandpaButch wrote:
Forlife said: Alrighty then. Forlife I almost forgot GOD bless you in the name of our Lord and Savior JESUS CHRIST may he keep ,and protect you. The Mason’s and NWO got in this discussion to show you who some people pray to . Why don’t you attack who they pray to why just the Judeo Christian GOD scared of him aren’t ya!

I’m an equal opportunity agnostic. I don’t see any more evidence for your god than for the thousands of other gods that people choose to worship. Thanks for the good wishes, but I’m assuming that they won’t have any more effect than the prayers for heart patients that we talked about earlier.

Kudos though, for saying gays are gonna rule the world :slight_smile:

I’m pretty, wait…I’m positive God (with a capital G) tells us not to test his powers.[/quote]

Ah ok so thats the cop-out thats going to be used this time. Fair enough.
Mark 11:24:

Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours.
Is that testing his powers? He says right there in the bible if you pray for it then it will happen. Is he contradicting himself?

And here I thought you winkee suckers were gonna have all kinds of enlightening things for us. Sad not even intelligent answers only sub 85 IQ answers . You guys are too hung up on trying to make Duality go away,and sadly your on the dark side of it. Just wondered do you ever lift weights ,or is that smoke and mirrors also.

Agnostics don’t have the guts to commit to anything,and that will come back to bite you after the 7 year rule of antichrist. That’s right a 7 year tribulation period on earth ruled by antichrist the fag. AFTER THAT YOUR DONE. Have fun guarding the “glory holes” tonight. You all are too much.