[quote]forlife wrote:
ephrem wrote:
…well, let me just go ahead here and say it: The god of Abraham does not exist. This god is a antropomorphic collage of bronze age myth, fear, tribal prejudice, ignorance and mysoginy all rolled into one. Does not mean that there couldn’t be a creating force, just that the goatherder’s god is a fantasy…
That view doesn’t automatically make you an atheist, though. An atheist believes all gods are false, and that it is impossible for there to be a god, period.
You’re only a selective atheist, which happens to be true of every believer as well. They are atheists when it comes to the entire pantheon of gods, excluding their own special god.[/quote]
…don’t worry, i deny the existence of Zeus, Brahman and Odin too…
…well, let me just go ahead here and say it: The god of Abraham does not exist. This god is a antropomorphic collage of bronze age myth, fear, tribal prejudice, ignorance and mysoginy all rolled into one. Does not mean that there couldn’t be a creating force, just that the goatherder’s god is a fantasy…
You’ve gone from an uncertainty concerning the existence–or non-existence–of a creating force, to making a claim about it’s nature. Or, what it’s nature isn’t.[/quote]
…if there is a creating force, nothing can be said about it’s nature. What can be said about figments of the imagination, like the god of Abraham, is a different matter…
…well, let me just go ahead here and say it: The god of Abraham does not exist. This god is a antropomorphic collage of bronze age myth, fear, tribal prejudice, ignorance and mysoginy all rolled into one. Does not mean that there couldn’t be a creating force, just that the goatherder’s god is a fantasy…
You’ve gone from an uncertainty concerning the existence–or non-existence–of a creating force, to making a claim about it’s nature. Or, what it’s nature isn’t.
…if there is a creating force, nothing can be said about it’s nature. What can be said about figments of the imagination, like the god of Abraham, is a different matter…
[/quote]
Can’t say anything about it’s nature…but damn sure can’t be the god of Abraham. Well, that makes sense.
Isn’t saying that one can’t know the nature of a creator, a statement of it’s nature? It’s like agnosticism, but with a deistic escape clause. “I can’t that a creator exists or doesn’t. But, I can tell that it’s unknowable, and isn’t the god of Abraham.”
[quote]ephrem wrote:
…don’t worry, i deny the existence of Zeus, Brahman and Odin too…
[/quote]
Heh, but you still acknowledge the possibility of a “life force”. I think it’s possible too, although I see it as pretty unlikely. If this “life force” does exist, it is not the omniscient, omnipotent, benevolent being that humans like to think it is.
[quote]Sloth wrote:
Isn’t saying that one can’t know the nature of a creator, a statement of it’s nature? It’s like agnosticism, but with a deistic escape clause. “I can’t that a creator exists or doesn’t. But, I can tell that it’s unknowable, and isn’t the god of Abraham.” [/quote]
Believers themselves admit that their god is unknowable, which is why they call it faith rather than knowledge.
…well, let me just go ahead here and say it: The god of Abraham does not exist. This god is a antropomorphic collage of bronze age myth, fear, tribal prejudice, ignorance and mysoginy all rolled into one. Does not mean that there couldn’t be a creating force, just that the goatherder’s god is a fantasy…
You’ve gone from an uncertainty concerning the existence–or non-existence–of a creating force, to making a claim about it’s nature. Or, what it’s nature isn’t.
…if there is a creating force, nothing can be said about it’s nature. What can be said about figments of the imagination, like the god of Abraham, is a different matter…
Can’t say anything about it’s nature…but damn sure can’t be the god of Abraham. Well, that makes sense. [/quote]
…it does actually. You’d have no problem denying the existence of the Invisible Flying Spaghetti Monster being the creator of ALL, right? 'Cause that would be ridiculous…
[quote]forlife wrote:
ephrem wrote:
…don’t worry, i deny the existence of Zeus, Brahman and Odin too…
Heh, but you still acknowledge the possibility of a “life force”. I think it’s possible too, although I see it as pretty unlikely. If this “life force” does exist, it is not the omniscient, omnipotent, benevolent being that humans like to think it is.[/quote]
…we are here, aren’t we? I’m content with the mystery staying the mystery, because i think that’s something we all can agree on: life itself is a mystery…
…well, let me just go ahead here and say it: The god of Abraham does not exist. This god is a antropomorphic collage of bronze age myth, fear, tribal prejudice, ignorance and mysoginy all rolled into one. Does not mean that there couldn’t be a creating force, just that the goatherder’s god is a fantasy…
You’ve gone from an uncertainty concerning the existence–or non-existence–of a creating force, to making a claim about it’s nature. Or, what it’s nature isn’t.
…if there is a creating force, nothing can be said about it’s nature. What can be said about figments of the imagination, like the god of Abraham, is a different matter…
Can’t say anything about it’s nature…but damn sure can’t be the god of Abraham. Well, that makes sense.
…it does actually. You’d have no problem denying the existence of the Invisible Flying Spaghetti Monster being the creator of ALL, right? 'Cause that would be ridiculous…
[/quote]
Of course I’d deny him. After all, I’m not the one claiming agnosticism here.
[quote]forlife wrote:
Sloth wrote:
Isn’t saying that one can’t know the nature of a creator, a statement of it’s nature? It’s like agnosticism, but with a deistic escape clause. “I can’t that a creator exists or doesn’t. But, I can tell that it’s unknowable, and isn’t the god of Abraham.”
Believers themselves admit that their god is unknowable, which is why they call it faith rather than knowledge.[/quote]
Neither athiests can be certain what they believe. Nor do you.
As I have said before, you could not even make a decent logical argument for your own existence. Yet, you believe you exist…If fact your pretty certain.
[quote]ephrem wrote:
…we are here, aren’t we? I’m content with the mystery staying the mystery, because i think that’s something we all can agree on: life itself is a mystery…
[/quote]
I’ve learned to be more comfortable with ambiguity, but I still want to know the answers.
[quote]Sloth wrote:
Creator would imply intelligence.[/quote]
Things get created and destroyed all the time in the natural universe, without the need for intelligence. The “intelligence”, if you want to call it that, is in the laws themselves which define how the universe works.
Evolution is a type of “intelligence”, for example. It produces increasingly superior species without any need whatsoever for cognition or self-awareness.
[quote]forlife wrote:
Sloth wrote:
Creator would imply intelligence.
Things get created and destroyed all the time in the natural universe, without the need for intelligence. The “intelligence”, if you want to call it that, is in the laws themselves which define how the universe works.
Evolution is a type of “intelligence”, for example. It produces increasingly superior species without any need whatsoever for cognition or self-awareness.[/quote]