Does Judo work in a fight?
Does hitting with a person with a planet work? I dunno.
[quote]WWEAttitude wrote:
Hey i’ve been checking out some judo vids lately on youtube and am starting to get into the sport, just want to know though if it works in a street fight, and also how much stand-up grappling and groundwork are you taught when u compare it to throws, since it seems like its more of a takedown-oriented sport from the vids i’ve seen.[/quote]
Couple of random thoughts:
takedown = at least one foot of baddie is on the floor
throw = both feet off the floor.
A lot of sports short change throws in favor of takedowns. The reason is that the distances and requirements of sports pretty much only leave single/double leg shoots and picks as the best bet. These are fine techniques, but, I think, miss a lot of really good stuff.
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Once upon a time boxers used to throw. What was the only throw in boxing? A “cross buttocks” = hip throw. Why? Because if someone is trying to hit you, clinching is pretty natural and pretty much every clinch can get turned into some type of hip throw. Food for thought. Oh, a “round” in the olden days lasted until one person was down. Since throws were allowed, this explains why some of those old matches had 90+ rounds to them.
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Judo/classical jujutsu emphasized throws because they are very punishing. The amount of systemic shock in a solid throw is a lot more input than a lot of people can handle. Some of the really old nasty techniques (which you will not find in competition) were designed to stun/kill people in armor. I’ve seen people get their ribs cracked practicing these on 8" thick crash pads, so yes indeed I think they’d do it.
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Throwing is one of the few techniques that you can practice and know if it worked. Think about it. You can do bag work until you puke and still not be able to set up a good hit, but if you throw someone either it worked or it didn’t. The training trade-off is that the mat attenuates the landing, so you don’t have to economize on the setup/entry. Good feedback.
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Landing is damn good conditioning. One of my buddies a few years back decided to try his hand at kickboxing. Best conditioning he found? Having me slam him for 100 hard speed ippons (arm throws). He swore that made him better at receiving strikes than any other training he did (and he did quite well in the ring before going on to law enforcement). Also he got 3 TKOs in his career and all of them were off hip throws. My bouncer buddies tell me that judo guys usually don’t notice body shots and are very hard to stop generally.
– jj
I cant find the other vid I wanted to post. Basically a guy goes into a gas station, gets attacked, throws the poor fool and it was all captured on the gas station camera. Yes Judo is effective in a street fight as long as the practitioner keeps up their skills.
Just to piggyback on what JJ said -
Getting thrown hurts like hell when someone does it properly and in anger, even if you have a pretty good breakfall. My last trip to the hospital was the result of being hip thrown onto grass during training (USMC, not MMA). I was in body armor at the time, and it didn’t do a damn thing to soften the blow. If anything, it probably provided the hard surface for my internal organs to beat themselves up on.
Also, in a defense situation you want to stay off the damn ground. Yes, it’s nice to be a BJJ master once you get there, but wouldn’t it be better to have just tossed the thug who clinched up with you, and be on your feet and able to run when he friend pulls the knife?
[quote]jj-dude wrote:
[quote]WWEAttitude wrote:
Hey i’ve been checking out some judo vids lately on youtube and am starting to get into the sport, just want to know though if it works in a street fight, and also how much stand-up grappling and groundwork are you taught when u compare it to throws, since it seems like its more of a takedown-oriented sport from the vids i’ve seen.[/quote]
Couple of random thoughts:
takedown = at least one foot of baddie is on the floor
throw = both feet off the floor.
A lot of sports short change throws in favor of takedowns. The reason is that the distances and requirements of sports pretty much only leave single/double leg shoots and picks as the best bet. These are fine techniques, but, I think, miss a lot of really good stuff.
-
Once upon a time boxers used to throw. What was the only throw in boxing? A “cross buttocks” = hip throw. Why? Because if someone is trying to hit you, clinching is pretty natural and pretty much every clinch can get turned into some type of hip throw. Food for thought. Oh, a “round” in the olden days lasted until one person was down. Since throws were allowed, this explains why some of those old matches had 90+ rounds to them.
-
Judo/classical jujutsu emphasized throws because they are very punishing. The amount of systemic shock in a solid throw is a lot more input than a lot of people can handle. Some of the really old nasty techniques (which you will not find in competition) were designed to stun/kill people in armor. I’ve seen people get their ribs cracked practicing these on 8" thick crash pads, so yes indeed I think they’d do it.
-
Throwing is one of the few techniques that you can practice and know if it worked. Think about it. You can do bag work until you puke and still not be able to set up a good hit, but if you throw someone either it worked or it didn’t. The training trade-off is that the mat attenuates the landing, so you don’t have to economize on the setup/entry. Good feedback.
-
Landing is damn good conditioning. One of my buddies a few years back decided to try his hand at kickboxing. Best conditioning he found? Having me slam him for 100 hard speed ippons (arm throws). He swore that made him better at receiving strikes than any other training he did (and he did quite well in the ring before going on to law enforcement). Also he got 3 TKOs in his career and all of them were off hip throws. My bouncer buddies tell me that judo guys usually don’t notice body shots and are very hard to stop generally.
– jj[/quote]
i like where you’re going with this, but i kinda disagree on one points…
i think many grappling/MMA athletes use wrestling style takedowns over throws, becasue they’re a lot easier to set up, and less risky. i love using throws at work, and they’re pretty easy on the average un-trained street thug, but in MMA/BJJ classes, it takes some good setups or clinch work to get the set up. however, i can pull off a double leg pretty easy in training, but i prolly wouldn’t use that as quickly at work.
i dont understand this, i lived in a beach and i dont understand i box
Holy fucking necroposting batman!
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Working as a bouncer, I’ve found Judo pretty handy over the years. Probably the most frequently used techniques for me were trips and foot sweeps. Seio Inage was another one. In that type of environment, people are pretty jammed up in a relatively smaller space, so the likelihood of tying up in a fight was pretty high. But in most situations I’d prefer to strike; I’m better at it & prefer to be able to close or move away at will.
I’ve studied several different martial arts, and I think judo will give you the most self defense for the time spent training. Other soft style martial arts get fancier so they take more time to learn, while hard style martial arts are pitting your force against the opponents’ force, but if you have more force than why are you in that fight to begin with? Also, if you can defend yourself without hurting your opponent, you have a much better sounding story to tell the police if they show up.
But no one has picked a fight with me since I buffed up weight lifting, so maybe that’s the best self defense of all.
1 Like
Since someone resurrected this post from the dead…
Yes, absolutely. The earth has a ridiculously greater mass than the human body, therefore physics tells us that when those two bodies collide, nearly all of that kinetic energy is going to be absorbed by the person. If somehow you manage to land on a more “pointy” part of the earth (rock for example), even worse as the force will be concentrated into a smaller space thus producing more acute damage.
As a result of this knowledge, there are whole Martial Arts systems that revolve around smashing your opponent into the earth. Shuai Jiao/Shiao is the Chinese version, Judo is the Japanese version, Greco Roman is the Western version, and I’m sure there are others.
The show Sports Science actually did an episode on the most damaging head impacts in sports and found that being slammed into the ground produced by far the greatest brain trauma; more than a blindside full speed football tackle from an all Pro Defensive end, and even more than getting hit in the head with a baseball bat! In fact, homicide statistics back this up as falls and the resulting impact of the head on the ground is the leading cause of death in unarmed confrontations.
This is also why most throws in combat sports are designed not to put the opponent on their head, but to allow them to effectively breakfall or take the fall on a less vulnerable (and potentially deadly) area of the body.