Does Estrogen Make Me Fat? What about Fertility?

Just doesn’t work. Trt is a very simple solution … take T , get free t , and then e + dht. Go find a list of benefits from dht and now you will realize E covers everything else. Free t minimal.

Just doesn’t make sense. Nobody is saying increase E. There saying leave it as is and let the body decide.

People can go ahead and take an Ai, but they cannot run away from the truth behind what is being shown in the medical literature.

This is like saying why not just run your car on 100% alcohol when the engine is built for gasoline …

Sure it Might run. But it’s probably not healthy for the car.

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Yes let it be and let the body decide. The body that we are injecting hormones to, surely nothing can ever go wrong and our body will for sure regulate itself even though it had a faulty system before hand. Everyone is the same and TRT should be the same for everyone.

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Medical literature would not agree with more than half the doses on here or from the types of groups you idolize.

Couple of observations-

There’s a school of thought being spouted that a.i. means no e2 with arguments that e2 is important so you shouldnt use an a.i.

A.I and e2 dont have to be mutually exclusive.

A small amount can mean a slight reduction in e2, not no e2.

Raised e2 can cause water retention which causes blood pressure issues.

E2 directly causes prostate growth- runnibg raised e2 for years… asking for an alpha blocker further down the line.

Im not pro a.i. but all this “no one needs an a.i” with an argument that e2 is important is nonesense as the whole argument is based around an assumption that a.i. means zero e2 and a lot of studies of breast cancer patients on large doses being cited.

My blood pressure is lower with a small amount of a.i.

I have better libido and erections with a small amount.

I’m not suggesting everyone needs one- but the whole no a.i. for everyone movement was damaging information for me when I got on TRT. Spent a year with raised e2 and struggling with sides from it.

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Funny also I actually got blood work showing some of the best lab values I ever had is with an AI, my estrogen is not crushed. But of course they ignore posts such as that. I think swoops also said his blood work is good as long as he doesn’t crush his E2.

There are no studies done on guys and TRT and AI without crashed E2. So we share our experiences here but it’s ignored and instead a study on women with cancer on 1mg of arimidex a day is pushed in your face till you are blue.

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Oh here is another brain twister @enackers @Carma . How specifically tissue biased can arimidex possibly be rather than over all systemic, if it’s possible and rather easy to crash our E2? If it was soooooo selective in one specific place of doing it’s work what gives with how easily it affects circulating estrogen??? If it wasn’t working overall systematically it would be a pain in the ass to crash E2.

Yeah last labs looked great while on .25mg A weekly, e2 was 45pg and lipids, BP, liver all great. Actually it was one of the best yearly check ups since I started TRT lol.

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These studies do exist but you are correct they don’t get much daylight on here. You have asked good questions.

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I know we’ve talked about this before when it comes to T, but I can see this theory that serum levels of E2 are not representative of interstitial levels. This hypothesis though is not in their favor as they would like to think. I really think there is something with uptake or receptors or something, hence I feel like crap with my E2 at 40, and it’s not crazy if I try to lower it by any means possible. With that said I do think there is a direct correlation with the levels going up or down, so going down from 40 to 20 I feel better, because my interstitial levels are more tolerable and at a better range for me. In that sense it could really explain why all of us are so different when it comes to circulating E2. While I except I am more on the outlier side of it, it’s not so insane when someone comes here and says “ughhhh I am feeling these E2 symptoms and my levels are 35”, like they aren’t always as crazy as people make it out, instead the person gets bombarded with authoritarian view on the number even claiming E2 may not be high enough, but then the same people play the other side of the fence and say “stop treating numbers”.

Not to mention some of these dudes are so proud to never taking an AI, but you dig deep and you come to find out they had gyno surgery they got a cabinet full of ED, prostate, blood pressure meds lmao.

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https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2050116121000581#bib0002

Supplementary Table 2:

DISCUSSION

Men receiving exogenous TTH may experience side effects, including elevations in E2 levels, which may impact libido and cause gynecomastia. AZ is a safe and effective option for men with elevated E2. Our study evaluated men with TD in which a small subset had elevated E2 requiring intervention (AZ). Overall, we demonstrated a statistically significant reduction in E2 levels to normal physiologic levels with maintenance of T levels, but were unable to identify predictors for men most likely to respond to therapy.

Only 2.6% of men had E2 which warranted treatment with AZ. AZ has been used in men with TD in an effort to reduce the conversion to E2 to T while maintaining fertility.6 We employed a cut-off for the use of AZ, but the literature does not support a clear cut-off or indication for the initiation of estradiol-lowering therapy.7 Similar to our series, in a national sample, 3.5% (1,200/34,016) of men were placed on an AI.7

Men in our series receiving AZ, and therefore with higher E2, had greater rates, although not statically significant, of OSA. Obesity is a common risk factor for OSA, and men with obesity have increased physiologic levels of aromatase therefore increasing the conversion of T to E2.8, However, while not statistically significant, BMI of the AZ+ group was greater than the AZ- group. Obese men on TTH for TD may warrant closer observation of E2 levels

AZ- in our series had statistically significant use of topical TTH, whereas AZ+ men had statistically significantly greater proportions of intramuscular TTH and lower topical TTH use. This reflects some data which suggested that statistically significant increases in E2 were observed in men on injectable therapy 3 months after initiating TTH.9

Almost all men had recovery of E2 within normal levels (<40 pg/mL) with simultaneous maintenance of a serum T. This highlights the importance of appropriate regulation given the important physiological processes regulated by E2.5 While AZ is commonly used as an adjunctive therapy to increase T levels in men whom spermatogenic preservation is important and therefore avoidance of exogenous testosterone is crucial, in our series AIs did not impact testosterone levels. However, other studies suggest coadministration of an AI with exogenous TTH increases serum T.10 All of these received T pellets, suggesting a differential response based on TTH type.

No statistically significant predictors were found in our series to predict E2 recovery in men on AZ. To the best of our knowledge, this has not been previously reported. Furthermore, limited data exists with respect to a clear cut-off or consideration of response to AZ, and therefore our composite cut-off was suggested based on a clinically meaningful response.

The clinical implications of AZ in men with elevated E2 while on TTH are evident. Given the importance of E2 in male physiology and the impact of TTH on E2, careful monitoring by practitioners providing exogenous therapy is critical.

Limitations to our study include the retrospective design, but all data were collected prospectively. The study does have limited external validity as data were obtained from a single institution and single provider. We also did not discern nor account for possible physiologic differences in men on AZ on clomiphene citrate versus those on exogenous TTH. We were not able to validate if AZ or clomiphene citrate did not interfere with E2 immunoassay testing. Furthermore all men did not have measurements completed by LCMS but were included in order to obtain a reasonable sample size. A sensitivity analysis only using LCMS measurements revealed similar results (Supplementary Table 3). Finally, while the number of men on AZ in our series is small which limited statistical analysis for predictors of estradiol recovery, the total number of men assessed with TD was significant and over a large period of time.

CONCLUSION

In patients with elevated E2 on TTH, using AZ 0.5mg TID, results in a statistically significant reduction in E2, with 76% completely normalized with simultaneous maintenance of T levels. No statistically significant predictors were found for recovery of E2 levels. Further research and larger studies are warranted.

EDIT:
@kazuya_mishima1
Also see here for more on T/E ratio and ED:

Role of testosterone to estradiol ratio in predicting the efficacy of recombinant human chorionic gonadotropin and testosterone treatment in male hypogonadism

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I tried to read it and skimmed it a few times, I don’t really see much in that study though. They just said they reduced numbers but didnt go into detail about symptoms and if it actually helped.

0.5mg TID- what does TID stand for please?

Ter in die - 3 times per day.

Appears to be a typo above as earlier in the paper they state 3 times per week which makes more sense than 0.5 mg 3 times per day.

Good example of why skimming abstracts ir conclusions can be problematic.

Do you PAY ATTENTION to anything i write or just zone out when you read my comments? You just answered the question. The fact that we dont know is why we dont f with it.

You are debating something that is vital to our health and trying to justify the use of blocking it with an ai.

There are dozens of areas you need estrogen, maybe you want to stop it from causing gyno… so you think taking an AI is going to just stop the E in your man titties? Not the brain, bones, organs, heart, arteries and etc? Please tell me how an AI will accomplish that, if its not engineered to do that specific job?

Go ahead and take the risk. I am not telling you not to take an AI. I am telling you why I dont take an AI. I am giving you alpha and you are taking it like a beta. You disagree with facts of science because your bias is allowing you to do so. Pretty sad way to live.

What is this terminology?

Giving alpha?

Alpha vs beta receptor expression?

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You guys are no authority and none of your spin on things make you or your ways correct ever. The only thing you guys are experts at are beating around the bush and manipulating the argument in your favor. That is why you crumble a lot of times in places like this, you guys only survive in places where you get worshipped and everyone agrees with you. Otherwise you guys attack people personally and run with tails between your legs. You have not made one credible point in this thread.

Now please if we are going to play with your hypotheticals, answer the questions I posed to you. Or go back to what ever corner you came from with yout tail between your legs.

Sometimes I do wonder if your guys existance here is just a big troll job lol.

So… you are saying… AI is not tissue specific and will work systemically? :grinning:

Sweet so as long as we don’t crush E2 we are good to go, but something tells me you will come back with another premise of crashes E2.

Oh also I don’t have man tities as you put, Unlike your idol and half the dudes that are part of the group. Gee wonder why?

When you partially block estrogen in the body, you do so evenly across the board. The brain and bones require different amounts of aromatase and AI’s interfere with this process. The aromatase process itself creates fatty esters for your cardiovascular system and again, AI’s interfere with that process as well.

Something has got to be getting short changed using an AI.

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But no real proof or evidence? Just random assumptions? Something that was just repeated over and over and became a thing.

And these people are at a higher risk of stroke… The high altitude argument makes no sense when we factor in living at high altitude is actually an independent risk factor for heart attack and stroke mediated by increase in blood viscosity.

It is suggested people with heart disease shouldn’t visit high altitude regions.

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