Does Anyone Actually Like Kerry?

I also think that the argument “there was no connection between Saddam and terrorism” is flawed.

That Stephen Hayes article in the Weekly Standard which Cheney cited showed a lot of friendly meetings with Islamist terrorists that are accurate. Obviously, they hadn’t hatched any plots together, but clearly, they had an understanding of mutual aims and the desireability of an alliance.

Islamist terrorist groups wouldn’t throw out ANY connection to a “secular” nation that would assist their aims. Mohammad Atta was whooping it up with his buddies at a strip bar shortly before he went for the virgins. Islamists around the world touted Saddam as a hero for standing up to American oppression. As his power was kept in check, the language of Saddam, like Yassir Arafat, became more and more religious in his attempt to appeal to all of Arab society.

“Why are Democrats so suspicious that we have about 10-12 reasons to have invaded Iraq?”

because none of them required immediate action on our part. and yet we mobilized our troops like some real shit was going down.

“If the WMD’s haven’t been found in the 12 months we have been there, does that invalidate the other nine to eleven arguments the administration used as justification?”

if one argument was vigorously and purposely embellished, then so may have been the others.

“Does it change the fact that Saddam supported terrorists?”

see previous response.

“Does it change the fact that he was shooting at our coalition’s planes every day?”

nope.

“Does it change the awful crimes against his people?”

nope.

“Does it change the decade of noncompliance with the U.N. mandates?”

israel? oh… iraq… no it doesn’t change that fact.

“Does it change the fact that brutual dictators, once they get their wings clipped (Kuwait-1991) always look for a reason to revenge themselves (see assassination attempt on George Senior)?”

brutal dictators always seek revenge? i did not know that.

“Does it change the fact that he destabilized the region by invading a neighbor once every decade?”

again, who are we talking about?

“Does it change the fact that he was bribing world leaders?”

who are we talking about?

“Does it change the fact that we know he had the capability to produce these weapons?”

who are we talking about? many countries have weapons of mass destruction… who knew what about iraq? there is no consistent answer.

“Does it change the fact that Saddam launched unprovoked Scud attacks against our ally, Israel and killed their civilians?”

israel is an ally? why do they waste our tax dollars building a wall in the middle of the deser? why do they spy on us so much?

oh, yeah saddam did bomb them. that fact does not change. last time i checked countries still bomb each other for various reasons… yeah i know… it sucks… it would suck even more if the U.S. had to annihilate every country that bombed another.

“Does it change the fact that he used his oil and a subsequent embargo to try to strongarm the Israeli-Palestinian debate to suit his ends?”

please explain this fact. sounds more like a theory.

“does anyone actually like kerry?”

according to recent polls, it seems more people would like to see a pres. kerry over another four years of pres. bush.

Please answer.

you know what’s funny? this whole “name names” business… if sen kerry doesnt name names then you can assume he is a liar!!! why doesnt this apply to cheney and his ‘confidential’ energy policy meetings? why doesnt this apply to bob novak… clearly the improtance of identifying a head of state who would like to see a pres. kerry pales in comparison to ousting a cia agent for doing some genuine fact finding… these things make me sick…

Danh,

Thank you for responding to my post. I have to warn you, some of your responses are the reasons that moderates like myself are moving more and more into George W.'s camp. I would like to discuss this with you in some detail.

First, you wrote “because none of them required immediate action on our part. and yet we mobilized our troops like some real shit was going down.”

Terrorists do not work on time-tables. Let me repeat that. Terrorists do not work on time-tables. They do not give warning. When is immediate? 9/11 is all the warning you are going to get. I fear future attacks will be even more sophisticated and more deadly. You won’t know until you are dead. Saddam supported terrorists. Are you seriously willing to believe the argument about “Al-Qaeda and Saddam didn’t get along so therefore there wasn’t any connection.” I am not. Too much common hate against the U.S. Hear about the Al-Qaeda training manuals found in the base in Iraq? How about the meetings in Baghdad? Seem funny to you how quickly terrorist activity (using Al-Qaeda-like tactics) began to occur in Iraq?

Explain to me how your responses trying to draw some parallel to Israel changes the fundamental facts about Saddam’s Iraq?

Does it change the fact that he used his oil and a subsequent embargo to try to strongarm the Israeli-Palestinian debate to suit his ends?"

please explain this fact. sounds more like a theory.

Actually it is a solid fact. Prior to the war, Saddam cut his oil exports/production to zero in order to influence the debate in Israel/Palestine. I’ll post the link later.

“does anyone actually like kerry?”

according to recent polls, it seems more people would like to see a pres. kerry over another four years of pres. bush."

I have an inherent distrust of almost all polling. Even when they show “support” of a position that I believe in, I distrust them. Who polices the pollsters? Who finances the major polls, Gallup, Zogby, etc…? You can get anyone to say anything you want them to say. Where did they take the recent CNN/USA poll? Berkley, California? By the way, please look under the politics section in today’s CNN website. You will see an interactive link to John Kerry’s campaign. Raise any eyebrows?
Again, I think that more and more moderates will swing to George W. There just are no real alternatives.

I apologize for the length of this post. Again, please answer.

Danh,

Here is the link: CNN.com - Iraq cuts oil in Israel protest - April 9, 2002

I always try to use liberal leaning media outlets when discussing a position with a Democrat. Many of the Democrats I argue with will automatically discredit any information coming from a Right Wing Publication.

Danh,

Let me add some proof to my argument:

This is from the New York Times. It’s hard to have a more Democratic leaning newspaper from a state where there are more than 3 million more registered Democrats.

This poll spells doom for Kerry. It shows W. ahead no matter how you slice it. After 6-8 months of 24 hour Kerry, this is the worst possible news for your candidate. However, I still am quite sceptical of polls EVEN WHEN THEY SUPPORT MY POSITION.

Moisture,
Careful bringing up Israel with Danh. His anger management issues and depressive tendencies activate big time.

His heroes on the matter are Patrick Buchanan who neglects to research the upcoming “scandals” he learns about from literature sent him by various antisemitic organizations, which are later proven to be flat out false. And Danh especially likes the Saudi apologist Robert Novak, who memorably said when Netanyahu was elected:

“I’ll tell you who did the nose thumbing. It was the majority of Jews in Israel who said, `The hell with you, United States. We don’t care for your billions of dollars. We’ll pick our own prime minister.’ Maybe they want to see how they get along without our billions, huh?”

Danh doesn’t think that’s antisemitic, and the accusation he would say, “makes him sick.”

Let Danh tell you about his brilliant ideas on the Book of Deuteronomy and Israeli Jews. It’s sweeeet!

brian smith, you retard…

anger management? depressive? nice psychoanalysis there… if only everynoe could be analyzed through their posts… the acronym OCD comes to mind.

i block you from PM and ask you to stop communicating with me and you’re always trying to find a way to piss me off…

do you have a job? cause i see that you post all day every day… you have an unlimited amount of time to research the most inane things… and from your last post it seems you have plenty of time to go through my history of posts and mischaracterize my position on vritually everything…

ive had people PM me about you and we all agree that there’s something wrong with you…

i will continue with moisture after im done taking care of some stuff.

Can anyone tell me what he or she likes about John Kerry without mentioning or otherwise referencing Bush?

And citing a poll is not telling me a reason you like Kerry.

BTW, on the subject of polls, it is fun to note that at this stage, Dukakis led Bush Sr. by double digits, and Mondale led Reagan.

Brian, your opionion seems to be that anyone who is critical of Israel, the Israeli government, Israeli policies regarding Palistinians and occupation, or that fat fuck Sharon is an anti-Semite?

I’m anti-religion in general, and don’t care any more about Jews one way or another than I do about Christians or Muslims.

I don’t like any of the above, and I think that electing Sharon was asking for war, and that the people who voted for him knew that and did so anyway, and got what they asked for, so count me as another anti-Semite, I guess.

It seems to me like Brian Smith is suffering from some sort of narcisstic personality disorder. He loves to show what an expert he is, he should be president!

I think Dan H is on to something about him.

Danh, you blocked PM’s from me? I had no idea this could be done. I haven’t sent you a PM since the one you posted on the board, with strangely now embarassment of how it cooly discussed your foolishness.

OCD for merely cataloging your outrageous statements from time to time?! I don’t have to do “arcane research” on you, Danh. I remember your posts very well because they are so special. Also, because of the times you’ve come out of the woodwork to bitch about Israel on all variety of threads.

Yes, I’m sure you’ve found plenty of WONDERFUL people to agree with you about me. I suppose the Novak quote is as insignificant to you as the Congressman who received money from Hamas supporters? Danh, you’re priceless.

Can’t name calling be left out?

Here’s something that helps Bush, though only b/c Greenspan is THE economist, and his opinion makes news/“matters”:

Greenspan Shifts View on Deficits
By EDMUND L. ANDREWS

Published: March 16, 2004

ASHINGTON, March 15 ? Consumer debt is hitting record levels. The federal budget deficit is yawning ever larger. The trade gap? Don’t even ask.

Many mainstream economists are worried about these trends, but Alan Greenspan, arguably the most powerful and influential economist in the land, is not as concerned.

In speeches and testimony, Mr. Greenspan, chairman of the Federal Reserve Board, is piecing together a theory about debt that departs from traditional views and even from fears he has himself expressed in the past.

In the 1990’s, Mr. Greenspan implored President Bill Clinton to lower the budget deficit and tacitly condoned tax increases in doing so. Today, with the deficit heading toward a record of $500 billion, he warns more emphatically about the risks of raising taxes than about shortfalls over the next few years.

On Monday, the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office published new calculations showing that the budget deficit now stems almost entirely from tax cuts and spending increases rather than from lingering effects of the economic slowdown.

Mr. Greenspan’s thesis, which is not accepted by all traditional economists, is that increases in personal wealth and the growing sophistication of financial markets have allowed Americans ? individually and as a nation ? to borrow much more today than might have seemed manageable 20 years ago.

This view is good news for President Bush’s re-election prospects. It increases the likelihood that the Federal Reserve will keep short-term interest rates low. And it could defuse Democratic criticism that the White House has added greatly to the nation’s record indebtedness.

Adjusted for inflation, the average family’s debt, including a mortgage, has climbed from $54,000 in 1990 to $79,000 last year. Mortgage foreclosures, credit card delinquencies and personal bankruptcies are all at near record levels.

Mr. Greenspan’s view is that household balance sheets are “in good shape,” and perhaps stronger than ever, because the value of people’s homes and stock portfolios have risen faster than their debts.

The Fed chairman is equally sanguine about the nation’s overall borrowing from foreigners, which has soared to more than $500 billion a year and has contributed to a sharp drop in the value of the dollar. And he has also made it clear he will not try to torpedo the president’s tax-cutting agenda, which could add another $2 trillion to federal borrowing over the next decade.

“History suggests that the odds are favorable that current imbalances will be defused with little disruption,” he declared in a speech two weeks ago.

But a growing number of experts are worried that Mr. Greenspan is too casual. Though most economists agree that American’s indebtedness is not a problem at the moment, many worry that the country has become too dependent on extraordinarily low interest rates that will inevitably creep higher in years to come.

“The fear I have is that the world is leveraged on low-interest borrowing,” said Allen Sinai, chief executive of Decision Economics, an economic forecasting firm. “It’s like a drug, and you get hooked on it.”

According to the Federal Reserve’s most recent data, household wealth bounced back after the economic slowdown and hit a record at the end of 2003.

But the main reason for that new wealth has been rising prices for real estate and stock, and those prices have climbed in large measure because interest rates are at their lowest level in more than 40 years.

If inflation rises and the Fed feels forced to raise interest rates, many economists worry that monthly debt burdens would rise at the very moment that housing prices start to decline.

“The day of reckoning is not now, but maybe five years from now,” said James W. Paulsen, chief investment strategist at Wells Capital Management. “To go down Greenspan’s route is like saying there is a free lunch. The fallacy is that net worth has gone up because debt went up. And that doesn’t give me a good feeling.”

"Thank you for responding to my post. I have to warn you, some of your responses are the reasons that moderates like myself are moving more and more into George W.'s camp. I would like to discuss this with you in some detail. "

no problem. im all for the exchange of ideas. even if i may not agree with something. i actually consider myself either indifferent or moderate on most issues.

First, you wrote “because none of them required immediate action on our part. and yet we mobilized our troops like some real shit was going down.”

"Terrorists do not work on time-tables. Let me repeat that. Terrorists do not work on time-tables. They do not give warning. When is immediate? 9/11 is all the warning you are going to get. I fear future attacks will be even more sophisticated and more deadly. You won’t know until you are dead. Saddam supported terrorists. Are you seriously willing to believe the argument about “Al-Qaeda and Saddam didn’t get along so therefore there wasn’t any connection.” I am not. Too much common hate against the U.S. Hear about the Al-Qaeda training manuals found in the base in Iraq? How about the meetings in Baghdad? Seem funny to you how quickly terrorist activity (using Al-Qaeda-like tactics) began to occur in Iraq? "

i agree that al qaeda is a huge threat and that they don’t work on timetables. i support the decision to invade afghanistan because the taliban acknowledged and yet refused to halt terrorist activities from within their borders. i dont support the war in iraq because iraq did not pose an immediate threat to national security. there were no terrorist organizations operating in iraq other than those operating from within kurdish territory. the only other reason that required immediate action on our part was the existence of wmd. that is obviously in dispute. the terrorist attacks after the bombing campaign can be categorized into attacks on foreign powers and attacks amongst the various factions in iraq. al qaeda and forces loyal to saddam are responsible for attacks against the US, but that does not mean they are currently allied, or were allied before the start of the war.

“Explain to me how your responses trying to draw some parallel to Israel changes the fundamental facts about Saddam’s Iraq?”

i mentioned israel because it’s obvious we have double standards. israel has wmd. israel has attacked its neighbors. you can argue israel has violated human rights. sans wmd, if these are the reasons someone justifies going into iraq, then we should be going into a lot of other places.

brian has charged that i am antisemitic. i am not. however, i do not view israel as benevolent to the US as many sources have portrayed it.

“Does it change the fact that he used his oil and a subsequent embargo to try to strongarm the Israeli-Palestinian debate to suit his ends?”

"Actually it is a solid fact. Prior to the war, Saddam cut his oil exports/production to zero in order to influence the debate in Israel/Palestine. I’ll post the link later. "

ok ill take a look at it.

according to recent polls, it seems more people would like to see a pres. kerry over another four years of pres. bush."

"I have an inherent distrust of almost all polling. Even when they show “support” of a position that I believe in, I distrust them. Who polices the pollsters? Who finances the major polls, Gallup, Zogby, etc…? You can get anyone to say anything you want them to say. Where did they take the recent CNN/USA poll? Berkley, California? By the way, please look under the politics section in today’s CNN website. You will see an interactive link to John Kerry’s campaign. Raise any eyebrows?
Again, I think that more and more moderates will swing to George W. There just are no real alternatives. "

i know polls change day by day and sometimes for the craziest of reasons. but the fact of the matter is there is a significant number of americans that would vote for kerry over bush. this will be a close election and i wouldnt want to bet any significant amount of money on the outcome.

bostonb,

i dont think anyone “likes” kerry.

i admire his public service record, his ability to keep a cool head and sound presidential. prior to bush i dont think it would have been possible for kerry to come this far.

for me, bush really lowered the bar.

moisture, i remember that story now… i still dont see an immediate justification for war.

i think we should have handled saddam in a covert manner, without all the fanfare.

brian smith, fuck off… do you even lift? get a job man.

Danh, get psychological help, man.

Maybe you can print out some of your posts from this board that find you ranting and swearing and declaring this-or-that makes you sick, and show them to the doctor so he can get a quick bead on the best medication for you.

I’m in the USAF and have tons of friends in the USMC, Army, and USAF. I look at whoever has the highest military budget and who is going to respect and honor those who fight for and serve their country. I DO NOT mean pretend to honor, I mean actually DO IT WITH POLITICAL ACTION. What is more important to you? Our soldiers at war and their lives? Or the economy? That’s what I thought.

Kerry is a liberal Democrat (Read: “Evil”) with all the wrong ideas. I honor him for his impeccable war service but I like Bush because he’s an idiot. That’s right, an idiot. I like him because he knows what is REALLY important and has a hightened sense of right and wrong that intellectual fuckbrained democrats simply don’t possess.

I’ve been following this thread for a few days now - this is some of the funniest shit I’ve read in a long, long time.

This is supposed to be a weight training site, but what thread has the most posts? This one by a bunch.

I don’t think the original question-“Does anyone actually like Kerry?” -
has even been addressed. ‘Anyone but Bush’- which seems to be the liberal mantra these days- is not an answer.

People are posting extremely lengthy monologues either slamming Bush, or defending him. I thought this thread was supposed to be about Kerry. That right there kind of sums up this whole election. It’s all about G-dub.

You got it rainjack…

The gwb response has been great and provoked by the senseless attacks of the “anyone but Bush” crowd…

The statement in itself concerns me about the intellect of our future ~ and people wonder why the fda regime has been able to strong-arm the supplement industry ~ too many uneducated sheeple in this country…

To answer the question ~ Kerry is a pig and does not deserve the highest ranking leadership position in the world.

~ jackzepplin