I am currently considering TRT with a doctor. My levels are around 330 ng/dl, I am 20 years old.
My LH and FSH are normal, my testicles are kind of small (below 10 ml of volume on each side).
My doctor says that a low dose of testosterone which helps me reach a levels of 600 to 800 ng/dl will not result in testicular atrophy, and will not stop the body’s own production of Testosterone.
But I have heard different things before, and I am afraid that my body will stop producing testosterone alltogether, because the exogenous testosterone is enough to keep me over 330 ng/dl. So my body might think that’s enough and shut down the natural production.
Research does not agree with your doctor. They did a study where they gave men the following doses: 25, 50, 125, 300 and 600 mg a week (or something along those lines). The men on the 25 and 50 mg per week doses had lower testosterone levels after 16 weeks than at baseline. This indicates that testosterone does not work in a supplemental way, but in a replacement way. It takes very little to shut you down.
It does suggest that most need 100 or more. The standard deviations are rather large, but not big enough that really anyone would feel good on 50 mg a week. If you were three standard deviations to the right of the mean (genetically you get really high levels from a dose), and in the 50 mg group you would have a total T of 480.
One thing to note is that this study used once a week shots with Test E and tested at the trough. With twice a week shots, I would expect a bit higher numbers across the board.
I know this is absurd, but a friend of mine told me the following.
When he was young(19-20) he has been using 5mg testosterone per day, I think propinate and he said it didnt shut his own production and added to it. That for the period of 2-3 months and he said on the blood test testosterone has increased and after 2-3 months he stopped cold turkey.
Is this this possible?
It is possible, but what benefit would you get from that. It is less likely to cause shutdown because so little is administered per day. With the study above it is all in one shot, so the 25 mg or 50 mg would cause a much larger spike and cause shutdown.
I don’t know about you, but I don’t think I am willing to pin ED to get a total of 35 mg of testosterone.
This statement is troubling and suggests you need to find a doctor that has a better understanding of things. Any amount of exogenous testosterone will break the feedback loop of the HPTA and shut down your natural production until such time you stop TRT and allow the exogenous testosterone to clear out of your system.
This doctor of yours is going to worsen your condition because he’s is creating his own interpretation about hormones related to testosterone without a basic understanding of how things work. You cannot avoid your natural production shutting down if you are injecting exogenous testosterone, you either stay off TRT and risk certain disease or you go on TRT and have a healthy testosterone level.
It doesn’t really matter where you get your testosterone, the only thing that matters is that you have healthy testosterone. It’s irrational to worry about shutting down geriatric testosterone levels, your natural production isn’t working for you anymore and probably never did and therefore no need to worry.
It’s not like your going to start TRT and increase your levels to 1000, feel amazing probably for the first time in your life and be like, I’m going to stop TRT because I want the low levels.
There is a big difference between low normal and high normal, the latter would indicate a possible primary hypogonadism diagnosis (testicular failure) or a low normal LH indicating pituitary failure.
I’m one of those few who hyper-respond to testosterone cypionate, 6-7mg daily is enough to make me feel invincible and I’m shutdown after only a few injections.
I will talk to my doctor and see what he says. Unfortunately, all doctors I have found who are even remotely considering treating my T-Levels dont seem to understand the machanics of it at all.
I had my LH and FSH tested:
LH: 4,5 IE/l
FSH: 4,8 IE/l
Btw, I suggested my doc a (maybe temporary) treatment with HCG to make my testes grow and increase my T-Production in the testes. He said that that’s far more dangerous than using TRT. And he said that I can not expect my balls to grow, because I am already grown up. He seems to be ignorant of the studies where HCG has dramatically increased testicular volume in men.
Does anyone know if the testes will shrink again when someone stops HCG?
HCG is used in men on TRT to treat testicular atrophy and for fertility reasons, HCG will keep your testicles active producing a little bit of testosterone and estrogen. It seems your doctor is nervous about directing your treatment and doesn’t seem like he’ll be any help should you encounter symptoms.
Your doctor will probably pull the plug on TRT the moment you start having problems, unless things go smoothly. TRT can become complicated pretty quick and having a knowledgeable doctors is imperative. You should just find an anti-aging clinic and be done with these inept doctors.
If you read the study, they used a gnrh agonist to suppress testosterone at the same time T was administered. So the study doesn’t illustrate the point.
T levels were measured a week after shot, so those are trough levels. I personally use my average and not trough to determine my T dose, but others think otherwise, which is fine.
I have seen a study or two where up to 50 mg/week didn’t fully suppress Lh/fsh, although I don’t recall how long the study was for. Keep in mind that a median 20-25 y.o. makes ~7mg/day which is 70 mg/week of cyp equivalent. People 30-50 are probably down to 50 mg/week. So you’d expect 100 mg/week to be fully suppressive as it’s much more than the average male is (or was ever) capable of.
At your age I would focus on testing other things for a few months, first.
It definitely can and most likely will. Since starting TRT nearly 20 years ago mine are about half normal size. HCG at 3000 IU per week along with TRT increased my fertility sevenfold and got me two kids but it nothing for testicular size.
