BTN presses are superior Shoulder growers, and they target the middle delts way more than a regular shoulder press. I do them seated, though I have done them standing. I can OHP a bit more than BTN because you’re using more upper chest, especially if you lean back during heavy reps. You can’t lean back during BTN. I go down slowly until the bar touches the back of my head (try not to look down), and let the smooth part of the bar ride down to the very top of my traps/bottom of my neck. The bar is about in line with my nose in the mirror.
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While normally more weight is more growth, OHP uses so many more different muscles that the shoulders don’t get the same workload as BTN. There’s no chest, or lean back, or anything - just pure shoulders.
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Ok cool.
Yea I noticed I also get what feels like zero core engagement doing BTN, I guess just because the weight is centered over my foot. I normally belt up for OHP and for BTN I never felt like I wanted too.
Do you find sitting to be more beneficial than standing?
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Yeah - standing BTN is more of a compound movement and I only care about shoulder involvement. Standing BTN uses less core than OHP for sure but it definitely uses more muscles than seated. In addition, seated BTN lets you handle more weight, and since we’re talking standing vs seated and not OHP vs BTN, more weight is generally better here. I also just think Seated is safer. More stability, no chance of leaning forward or back.
Ok so you’re seated on like an incline bench with the back all the way up so you have back support?
When I do them I stand right outside my squat rack so if I lose balance the weight hits the rack and doesn’t gonall the way back and rip my shoulders off.
This is close to what I’m in. You can adjust the height of the seat, but also how far away it is from the back of the rack, so when doing BTN presses you just miss it. Best to give a bit of a lean back and half-Bench the weight up on the initial unrack so you’re not doing a concentric hyperextended Shoulder Press, lol.
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Did BTN OHP on the Smith this morning for my mTor sets. Felt good at the time but the verdict is still out as to whether or not it’s a good choice for me. My left shoulder kind of hurt as I sat in squad at 0700. It seems to be okay now. I like the way it feels in my delts though. I’m hoping I don’t induce a new problem by doing them once a week. I’ll have to take it slow.
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BTN Press is a big no no for me. Did them early in my training and my whole right shoulder issue is from BTN press. Keep them wide and light if you do them.
High Frequency Squats: Week 1, Day 2: Legs
Squats
95x5
135x5
165x7 just did my 7 reps in one go. Wanted to go a bit more
185x5
205x5
225x5
245x1
275x1
135x20
RDLs
135x10
225x10
225x10
225x10
Leg Extensions
70x10
110x10
130x10
150x10
170x10
190x8, 130x6, 70x12
Thazit. Still light on the squats, but I’ve officially switched to a slightly narrower stance after being a wide stance ham dominant squatter forever. Plus I set up the squat rack so I was facing away from the mirror for the first time tonight. AND, I didn’t pull my belt insanely tight, just snug, and used proper bracing to puff out my stomach and fill the belt. It really feels like I’m squatting for the first time. Gonna tough out these 12 weeks, but I may have to up the percentage increases- I underestimated my max - 275 wasn’t easy, but it was not even remotely grindy. I feel like I’m gonna be back to my 365 in a couple months, then onwards to 405.
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High Frequency Squats: Week 1, Day 3: Chest
Squats
95x5
135x5
185x8 I may drop back to the prescribed 165 tomorrow, and I was super sore today but it was still easy to get my 8 reps.
Bench
135x10
185x10
205x8 drop to 135x20
Incline
60s x10
x10
x10
x10
Crossovers
3x15
Tri Rope
3x20
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I think wide grip and inflexibility is the main problem with them, and people go too heavy too quick! Grip a little closer and keep weight on the bar sensible and most people should be golden
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DUDE, you read my mind! Wide grip seems like the way to go, since you can physically get your arms further behind your head with a wide grip, but that’s also a far more compromising position! I bench with my infex fingers OUTSIDE the power ring, being 6’4 with long arms, but I BTN Press with my middle fingers on the power ring, and I come down to my neck, AND I have a partially torn labrum that will never heal without arthroscopic surgery. My qualms with BTN Press for @Frank_C isn’t the shoulder, it’s the extra stretch and stress on the bicep tendon.
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I even think limiting ROM can be more dangerous, like partial squats causing damage. A healthy shoulder joint is already rolled back and built to support weight. I stay in the 8-12RM for my working sets and treat every rep like it’s a max effort rep. I go to failure on bench, incline, flys, pull-ups, rows, abs, etc. but never BTN. One rep left in the tank, and even if I could hit a grindy 12 to move up to the next weight, I leave one in the tank until all 12 are achievable. I spent a decade thinking everything behind the neck was bad. I also have spent my entire lifting life thinking round-backer DLs applies to the upper back only, because how could the lumbar support weight while curved? Then, I see @T3hPwnisher neutral/round-back deadlifting 500 for double digits, just like I saw @Paul_Carter BTN pressing 365 and realized the problem wasn’t the exercise, it was me. The body adapts to incredible things. I watched videos of Pwn deadlifting or OHP’ing tons of weight with form that I previously scoffed at until I realized the dude was almost twice as strong as I was. I’ve made serious progress in the last couple months with no program, only double progression and the knowledge that - and I believe this applies to Pwn’s lift form as well - if everything is a train wreck, nothing is a train wreck (just kidding, but seriously I almost had a heart attack the first time I saw you SSB Squat until I realized you were nearly twice as strong as me)
In all seriousness though, it may be Jon Andersen’s philosophy, but following your log has allowed me to tap into the motivation I discovered (a.k.a. was beaten into me) in the Marines. The first step of a 25 mile hike with 60-70 lbs combat gear on your back (and passing around a 60 lb .50 cal receiver) sucks, and after mile 1 you want to quit. It’s just one foot; one squat; one Press; one breath after another. Effort is everything. Nothing - overload, volume, intensity - comes with effort. I leave the gym every day covered in sweat, and shaking, and knowing that I left all my effort out there.
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Oddly enough, my right shoulder feels fine with BTN. It’s the pesky left shoulder that’s never been a problem that has had an ache.
I’ll stick with regular OHP or DBs for now.
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Always happy to be an inspirational train wreck, haha. I was really concerned about form earlier in my training as well until I stalled HARD. After trying all the things that “worked”, I eventually decided f**k it and tried all the things that weren’t supposed to work, and that was where I found success.
There will always be dissenting voices out there, but ultimately you gotta figure out what works for you.
Cool Jon has been helpful to you too. Guy is a delightful lunatic, haha.
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High Frequency Squats: Week 1, Day 4: Back width
Squats
165x10 - didn’t bother to do the 9 day after all the running around I did yesterday, and I’ll give my legs another rest day tomorrow.
SUPERSET
Rows
Couple warmup sets, then
10 on the stack x10
12x10
14x8, 10x8, 6x20 dropset
and
Pull-ups
x5
x5
x5
SUPERSET
Double arm row on incline bench
40s x10
70s x10
70s x10, 45s x10
70s x 8, 45s x10
and
Rope Pullovers
X10
X10
X10
X10
Had to work for a couple hours today, workout had to be rushed through with minimal rest time in about 30 minutes. No complaints, Sunday’s are double time and I already have 11 hours of overtime this week.
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Regarding your Dad bod… 
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I remember one time when I was in high school I had a really rough day and had to work a job I hated. I called my dad in the parking lot and told him straight up that I was ready to quit. He talked to me for a little while and eventually said “it’s just one day so just get through it and come home.” It’s such a passer-by thought that was manifested into words by him, but I’ve taken that to heart every day of my life since then. When something sounds shitty or hard and I don’t want to do it or feel as if I can’t do it, I always think back to “just do it and go home.” I don’t know how this helps or pertains to any of this. Just like hearing myself talk I suppose. Ha
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That guy’s a trip. I engaged more with him earlier, but now I can just dip in, point out some lunacy, and disappear into the night again.
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