Doctors Planning Exit Under Obamacare

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
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[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]jbpick86 wrote:

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

You think doctors will all come down on prices of procedures because you pay out of pocket?

[/quote]

I know they will because I have experienced it firsthand. Lately.[/quote]

I have to admit my doctor has told me if I pay in cash I will get a better rate.

My dentist I pay in cash and she charges me 25% less than what she charges insurance companies. She makes more money and I pay less overall than insurance premiums by almost $500 a year.
[/quote]

My optometrist and my dentist both give discounts if you don’t have insurance.[/quote]

I don’t personally see a 20% decrease as taking anything away from the doctor (and agree, a small decrease like that is normal). I also don’t see that making most procedures available to people who truly are low income.

For some of the people I treat, getting a tooth fixed means no rent this month.[/quote]

Why does it have to be rent? What type of cell phone did they have? What type of car do they drive? What type of shoes do they wear? How many children? Do they have a job?

I am saying these things not to be an ass but to make a point, because a lot of people have their priorities out of order. Food, Clothing, Shelter. Some people will add transportation, but in Houston you can get around, slowly, but still can be done, on Public Transportation for cheap. IMO everything else is a luxury. Many people can clean up their lives by just focusing on those 3-4 priorities, and save money and get the other luxury items later. I did not get a cell phone until my last job paid for mine. That was 8 years ago.
[/quote]

Many of these people walk to this clinic. Many don’t even speak English. I don’t think you understand how bad some people have it.[/quote]

I have held dying children in my arms because they have not eaten in 2 weeks. Children that should be black or a dark brown color that were gray from malnutrition. Children that dig through trash cans just to find a morsel to eat. I know what it is like to actually be poor.

This country does not understand what poor is. You have a government that supplies everything to you, and charities that hand out food every day. Yet these “poor” in this country still want more for free. Our priorities are out of whack. Food, Clothing, and Shelter and that is it. Food =/= steak, clothing =/= Lebron Nike’s, shelter =/= $850/month rent for 1 person, and transportation =/= Cadillac Escalade. And yes I saw a lady the other day filling up her Escalade with $5 cash and wearing an employee’s uniform to Goodwill.

I know what actual poor is. If you have food in the refrigerator then you are not poor. Poor has no clue where the next meal is coming from and they have to go work or dig in trashcans for it. Every Elementary in Houston supplies Breakfast to every child, and lunch to every child that qualifies. They even offer food to the parents and children during summer vacation.

It is a tough life no doubt. I give thousands of dollars a year to charities to help people. I go and donate my time to charities to help the poor every year. I put my wallet and time where my mouth is. I care about people. I love people.
[/quote]

This was all a great story…but I have been to third world countries in the military. I didn’t really need the info because I have experienced it too.

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[quote]Professor X wrote:

This was all a great story…but I have been to third world countries in the military. I didn’t really need the info because I have experienced it too.[/quote]

I think a lot of people could use a wake up call like this though.

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[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

This was all a great story…but I have been to third world countries in the military. I didn’t really need the info because I have experienced it too.[/quote]

I think a lot of people could use a wake up call like this though. [/quote]

Hey, I tried to make a statement about sleeping on the ground because many n that country slept in what was really a hut on the ground… and every other person on the forum logged in and claimed they had done that…or that their grandfather had a basement with a ground floor so they know what it’s like.

The average person does not know true poverty in America…but it isn’t the goal for us to make them experience it either.

Simply put, if you throw treatment into the hands of charity when it comes to all preventive care, people will die.

You would have to be very cold to think that is ok.

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[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

This was all a great story…but I have been to third world countries in the military. I didn’t really need the info because I have experienced it too.[/quote]

I think a lot of people could use a wake up call like this though. [/quote]

Hey, I tried to make a statement about sleeping on the ground because many n that country slept in what was really a hut on the ground… and every other person on the forum logged in and claimed they had done that…or that their grandfather had a basement with a ground floor so they know what it’s like.

The average person does not know true poverty in America…but it isn’t the goal for us to make them experience it either.

Simply put, if you throw treatment into the hands of charity when it comes to all preventive care, people will die.

You would have to be very cold to think that is ok.

[/quote]

I think that more people considered “poor” in this country would actually rise up and better themselves if exposed to true poverty.

That’s all I was saying.

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[quote]Professor X wrote:

Simply put, if you throw treatment into the hands of charity when it comes to all preventive care, people will die.

You would have to be very cold to think that is ok.

[/quote]

I agree with this. I have told many of my friends, “If the church had done what God instructed them to do the US Government never would have had to set up Welfare.”

What I do not agree with is that all the people who have made the correct choices should pay for people that make incorrect choices. Our priorities should be in order before anyone gets a hand out. There has to be accountability. The government throws money at people for votes, with zero accountability. Charities at least can pull money from people if they do not do what is right. George W. Bush with his faith based initiative really had a good idea going there.

Now X do you sometimes do dental work for free? If you went over to the person’s house that you just did $600 of work for free and saw they had a 55" plasma tv would you ever do free work for them ever again?

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[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:
I don’t think you understand how bad some people have it.[/quote]

This was all a great story…but I have been to third world countries in the military. I didn’t really need the info because I have experienced it too.[/quote]

Lets look at what you said, that constituted the story.

You asked me directly that “I don’t think you understand how bad some people have it.” My story backs up that I do understand that.

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[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:
I don’t think you understand how bad some people have it.[/quote]

This was all a great story…but I have been to third world countries in the military. I didn’t really need the info because I have experienced it too.[/quote]

Lets look at what you said, that constituted the story.

You asked me directly that “I don’t think you understand how bad some people have it.” My story backs up that I do understand that.
[/quote]

My bad. You’re right.

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[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

Simply put, if you throw treatment into the hands of charity when it comes to all preventive care, people will die.

You would have to be very cold to think that is ok.

[/quote]

I agree with this. I have told many of my friends, “If the church had done what God instructed them to do the US Government never would have had to set up Welfare.” [/quote]

Well, this country is about as far away from “the Church” as it may ever be.

[quote]

What I do not agree with is that all the people who have made the correct choices should pay for people that make incorrect choices. Our priorities should be in order before anyone gets a hand out. There has to be accountability. The government throws money at people for votes, with zero accountability. Charities at least can pull money from people if they do not do what is right. George W. Bush with his faith based initiative really had a good idea going there.[/quote]

I agree as far as responsibility…but I also agree with looking at reality.

Reality:

-people wait until a problem is really big to deal with

If you apply this to health care, taking away the incentives already in place to have children seen by doctors through insurance will lead to DEATHS…AND MANY OF THEM.

People seem to ignore this to hand out their brand new idea for economy.

I don’t like the government taking much of my paycheck…nor do I agree with some family buying brand new plasma tvs when their kids are on welfare…but I also don’t agree with killing people off to get what I want.

Yes, I do some work for free. I understand what you mean…I am just talking about how we treat people in getting what some consider “ideal economy”.

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[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

Simply put, if you throw treatment into the hands of charity when it comes to all preventive care, people will die.

You would have to be very cold to think that is ok.

[/quote]

I agree with this. I have told many of my friends, “If the church had done what God instructed them to do the US Government never would have had to set up Welfare.” [/quote]

Well, this country is about as far away from “the Church” as it may ever be.

[quote]

What I do not agree with is that all the people who have made the correct choices should pay for people that make incorrect choices. Our priorities should be in order before anyone gets a hand out. There has to be accountability. The government throws money at people for votes, with zero accountability. Charities at least can pull money from people if they do not do what is right. George W. Bush with his faith based initiative really had a good idea going there.[/quote]

I agree as far as responsibility…but I also agree with looking at reality.

Reality:

-people wait until a problem is really big to deal with

If you apply this to health care, taking away the incentives already in place to have children seen by doctors through insurance will lead to DEATHS…AND MANY OF THEM.

People seem to ignore this to hand out their brand new idea for economy.

I don’t like the government taking much of my paycheck…nor do I agree with some family buying brand new plasma tvs when their kids are on welfare…but I also don’t agree with killing people off to get what I want.

Yes, I do some work for free. I understand what you mean…I am just talking about how we treat people in getting what some consider “ideal economy”.[/quote]

I think we are really close in the way we think.

There is not a simple answer to this question. All we can do is come up with some ideas. There is a cost to everything we come up with. I am a Finance guy, and I try to help as many people as possible with the least amount of money. There is a lot of waste at the government level that could be used to do what you want with helping the “poor.” There is no accountability though.

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We’re going to be “gifted” with a health care plan we are forced to purchase and fined if we don’t,

…which purportedly covers at least ten million more people, without adding a single new doctor, but provides for 16,000 new IRS agents, who have recently demonstrated their objective and professional integrity,

… written by a committee whose chairman says he doesn’t understand it, passed by a Congress that didn’t read it but exempted themselves from it, and signed by a president who smokes,

… with funding administered by a treasury chief who didn’t pay his taxes, for which we’ll be taxed for four years before any benefits take effect,

…by a government which has already bankrupted Social Security and Medicare, Fannie Mae and Freddy Mac, and the Post Office,

…all to be overseen by a Surgeon General who is obese, and financed by a country that is broken financially, borrowing unlimited money that no FIVE super powers could pay off.

What could possibly be the reason?

The reason is to bankrupt America, forcing it into chaos and collapse whereupon a “savior” will offer to forgive our debt in return for America dropping the constitution (the one thing immigrants the world over do not have that makes them risk their lives to come here and live under it’s PROTECTION FROM OPPRESSIVE GOVERNMENTS)

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Aetna drops out of NY Obamacare exchange…

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Just draft all the doctors in the Air Force or whatever. Air Force would be better than the Army, more classy. Pay 'em $35,000 per year and force them to work in Cleveland, Detroit, the Bronx, and so on.

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[quote]MaximusB wrote:
Aetna drops out of NY Obamacare exchange…

Seriously, who didn’t see shit like this coming from a mile away?

Oh wait, the dumbasses who passed this monstrosity.

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[quote]Aragorn wrote:

[quote]MaximusB wrote:
Aetna drops out of NY Obamacare exchange…

Seriously, who didn’t see shit like this coming from a mile away?

Oh wait, the dumbasses who passed this monstrosity.[/quote]

Its not like they were not told.

However there is a species of liberal that assumes that everyone is a pliable little drone, just like they are.

The notion of a backbone is wasted on them.

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[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]Aragorn wrote:

[quote]MaximusB wrote:
Aetna drops out of NY Obamacare exchange…

Seriously, who didn’t see shit like this coming from a mile away?

Oh wait, the dumbasses who passed this monstrosity.[/quote]

Its not like they were not told.

However there is a species of liberal that assumes that everyone is a pliable little drone, just like they are.

The notion of a backbone is wasted on them.

[/quote]
I honestly wonder a lot of times if they’re really just that damn stupid or if it is some sort of feed forward loop between pliable little drones in groupthink.

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[quote]conservativedog wrote:

…all to be overseen by a Surgeon General who is obese,
[/quote]

To be real, she looks like the average American. If she were truly morbidly obese, then I could see all the fuss.

I see ten times worse than that on any one trip to Walmart.

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[quote]dmaddox wrote:
I agree with this. I have told many of my friends, “If the church had done what God instructed them to do the US Government never would have had to set up Welfare.”
[/quote]

Welfare replaced the ‘poorhouse system’, which replaced indentured auctions, which replaced, debtor prisons, etc.

Is there a point on the time-line where you think we had the ‘accountability condition’ correct?

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[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]conservativedog wrote:

…all to be overseen by a Surgeon General who is obese,
[/quote]

To be real, she looks like the average American. If she were truly morbidly obese, then I could see all the fuss.

I see ten times worse than that on any one trip to Walmart.[/quote]

Very true.

But Miss Benjamin is the Surgeon General, not somebody on aisle three.

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[quote]BlueCollarTr8n wrote:

[quote]dmaddox wrote:
I agree with this. I have told many of my friends, “If the church had done what God instructed them to do the US Government never would have had to set up Welfare.”
[/quote]

Welfare replaced the ‘poorhouse system’, which replaced indentured auctions, which replaced, debtor prisons, etc.

Is there a point on the time-line where you think we had the ‘accountability condition’ correct? [/quote]

What do you mean by “accountability condition”? Are you meaning people being accountable for welfare, or the church being accountable to God?