[quote]rainjack wrote:
If you are going to go to war it should be to destroy the enemy, not try to make friends and pass out food. [/quote]
Iraqis weren’t the enemy and frankly neither was Hussein.
[quote]rainjack wrote:
We left entirely too many people alive, and too many mosques standing.
[/quote]
Because only terrorists go to mosques, clearly.
[quote]apbt55 wrote:
Christine wrote:
If we would have just let it alone, we wouldn’t have to worry about the Taliban or Iran taking it over.
Are you saying just let someone destroy the towers in new york and attempt the pentagon and not respond in any way, [/quote]
The OP is specifically referring to the Iraq war.
No, they had nothing to do with 911.
[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
rainjack wrote:
If you are going to go to war it should be to destroy the enemy, not try to make friends and pass out food.
Iraqis weren’t the enemy and frankly neither was Hussein.[/quote]
You need to read the UN resolution.
Perpetuate the lies somewhere else. Anyone but a fucking kool-aid drinker knows this is not the case.
Sorry. You know as much about foreign affairs as you do the real world.
[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
rainjack wrote:
We left entirely too many people alive, and too many mosques standing.
Because only terrorists go to mosques, clearly.[/quote]
Not so much, but only terrorists use mosques as a base of attack.
Try your bullshit on someone else.
[quote]Christine wrote:
apbt55 wrote:
Christine wrote:
If we would have just let it alone, we wouldn’t have to worry about the Taliban or Iran taking it over.
Are you saying just let someone destroy the towers in new york and attempt the pentagon and not respond in any way,
The OP is specifically referring to the Iraq war.
No, they had nothing to do with 911.[/quote]
People who think we went to Iraq because of 9/11 should be taken out and shot.
But -
Iraq was/is part of the war on terror. Like it or not - believe it or not - Iraq was neck deep in the jihad against the US.
[quote]rainjack wrote:
People who think we went to Iraq because of 9/11 should be taken out and shot.
[/quote]
Wow, I agree with Rainjack.
[quote]rainjack wrote:
Christine wrote:
apbt55 wrote:
Christine wrote:
If we would have just let it alone, we wouldn’t have to worry about the Taliban or Iran taking it over.
Are you saying just let someone destroy the towers in new york and attempt the pentagon and not respond in any way,
The OP is specifically referring to the Iraq war.
No, they had nothing to do with 911.
People who think we went to Iraq because of 9/11 should be taken out and shot.
But -
Iraq was/is part of the war on terror. Like it or not - believe it or not - Iraq was neck deep in the jihad against the US. [/quote]
If we didn’t go to Iraq at least partly because of 9/11 why exactly did we go there? Why didn’t we go straight into Afghanistan or Pakistan or Iran for that matter? Further more what should our government have done?
Everyone on this forum has their opinion on how the war should have gone/not gone so I am asking anyone how would you have fought the war?
[quote]Christine wrote:
rainjack wrote:
People who think we went to Iraq because of 9/11 should be taken out and shot.
Wow, I agree with Rainjack.[/quote]
Are South Korean’s allowed to have opinions…Oh ya we made sure of that didn’t we…Your welcome.
[quote]THE_CLAMP_DOWN wrote:
Rockscar wrote:
reshumate wrote:
Ok then, tell me how long it would take for Iran to take it over, or the Taliban? It’s like trying to part water.
If we move out, they will move in, plain and simple…and untill we actually fight a REAL FUCKING WAR and erraticate them all…the way it should be done, this won’t stop.
and if Iran takes over Iraq//… what than?
erradicate all people whose views are different than yours?
[/quote]
When they sponsor TERRORISM…YES. What’s with everyone? Do you actually fucking believe this is as simple as getting out playing nice, aplologize…and all the fairytales will come true? Give me a fucking break.
[quote]rainjack wrote:
LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
rainjack wrote:
If you are going to go to war it should be to destroy the enemy, not try to make friends and pass out food.
Iraqis weren’t the enemy and frankly neither was Hussein.
You need to read the UN resolution.
Perpetuate the lies somewhere else. Anyone but a fucking kool-aid drinker knows this is not the case.
Sorry. You know as much about foreign affairs as you do the real world. [/quote]
I know enough to not make people hate me.
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
rainjack wrote:
Christine wrote:
apbt55 wrote:
Christine wrote:
If we would have just let it alone, we wouldn’t have to worry about the Taliban or Iran taking it over.
Are you saying just let someone destroy the towers in new york and attempt the pentagon and not respond in any way,
The OP is specifically referring to the Iraq war.
No, they had nothing to do with 911.
People who think we went to Iraq because of 9/11 should be taken out and shot.
But -
Iraq was/is part of the war on terror. Like it or not - believe it or not - Iraq was neck deep in the jihad against the US.
If we didn’t go to Iraq at least partly because of 9/11 why exactly did we go there? Why didn’t we go straight into Afghanistan or Pakistan or Iran for that matter?
Further more what should our government have done? Everyone on this forum has their opinion on how the war should have gone/not gone so I am asking anyone how would you have fought the war?[/quote]
Ummmm… we did go directly to Afghanistan (October 7, 2001)… that is the other war we are fighting. We didn’t go to Iraq until 2003. Is this question for real?
And I’m sure that South Koreans are a lovely people whose opinions are allowed.
[quote]rainjack wrote:
I have said this many times on here. I am not against the war. I am against the way the war was prosecuted.
Since Korea, the US has tried to fight friendly wars. They lead to Viet Nam’s and Iraq’s.
We should have used extreme prejudice to exterminate the enemy. We left entirely too many people alive, and too many mosques standing.
If you are going to go to war it should be to destroy the enemy, not try to make friends and pass out food. [/quote]
Agreed, many politicians have unlearned history and taken short-term thinking and made it appear like a long term solution. ‘Friendly wars make fewer terrorists’ really means people get shot at and blown up for a lot longer.
Blaze a path of destruction and make kings of the people who lay down their guns or get out of harms way. No German or Japanese terrorists.
[quote]Christine wrote:
usmccds423 wrote:
rainjack wrote:
Christine wrote:
apbt55 wrote:
Christine wrote:
If we would have just let it alone, we wouldn’t have to worry about the Taliban or Iran taking it over.
Are you saying just let someone destroy the towers in new york and attempt the pentagon and not respond in any way,
The OP is specifically referring to the Iraq war.
No, they had nothing to do with 911.
People who think we went to Iraq because of 9/11 should be taken out and shot.
But -
Iraq was/is part of the war on terror. Like it or not - believe it or not - Iraq was neck deep in the jihad against the US.
If we didn’t go to Iraq at least partly because of 9/11 why exactly did we go there? Why didn’t we go straight into Afghanistan or Pakistan or Iran for that matter? Further more what should our government have done? Everyone on this forum has their opinion on how the war should have gone/not gone so I am asking anyone how would you have fought the war?
Ummmm… we did go directly to Afghanistan (October 7, 2001)… that is the other war we are fighting. We didn’t go to Iraq until 2003. Is this question for real?
And I’m sure that South Koreans are a lovely people whose opinions are allowed.
[/quote]
I stand corrected I thought it was the other way around.
The fact of the matter is that our continuing presence in Iraq has rasied animosity against America to a level never before seen. What WAS a war against a tortorous dictator is now a war against a fucked up ideology. The problem is we’re fighting fucked up ideology with fucked up ideology.
We would have been in Iraq by '03 weather or not the towers fell, Bush needed Iraq, he would not have gotten re-elected. Moreoever the world needed that fucker Saddam Hussein out of power.
The real problem is that the Islamic nations do not help their own. This has been proven time and time again. They pimp out their fallen brothers as a means of gaining sentiment for whatever cause they are pushing.
When the Reich fell in Germany, Europe scrambled to help. Hell, the world scrambled to help.
Regardless of the failings of others… what is our part in this?
-We went into a war which greater minds told us would take years with a two week plan.
-Instead of being honest about our motives, we misled our own public and the UN
-Failing to wait for the UN to pass a resolution, people can say what they want about the UN, but the UN was a response to the fall of the Reich and creation of Israel and was designed primarily to keep a country from unilaterally waging war
-Failing to honestly appraise costs of war
-Failing to supply troops adequately
And the IMHO the most remarkable failure we have experienced, and are still experiencing today is forgetting the lessons of vietnam. You cannot wage military war against guerilla war unless you are willing to “kill em all and let god sort em out.”
In the 80’s we had our hand in Guerilla Operations all over the world, some successful, some blew up in our face, but none of them cost 3 trillion dollars and 70% of public opinion. Our guerilla operations contributed to putting Saddam and the Taliban in power…
I am a firm believer that if Bush & Co wanted Saddam and the Taliban, or any Middle Easten leader removed, they could have gone about it without war. Anyone who wants to argue this might want to check on their history.
Also, where the fuck is bin laden? we should have hired the Israelis to hunt him down and kill him on monday night football.
Just my 2 cents.
[quote]pavlovs vodka wrote:
The fact of the matter is that our continuing presence in Iraq has rasied animosity against America to a level never before seen. What WAS a war against a tortorous dictator is now a war against a fucked up ideology. The problem is we’re fighting fucked up ideology with fucked up ideology.
We would have been in Iraq by '03 weather or not the towers fell, Bush needed Iraq, he would not have gotten re-elected. Moreoever the world needed that fucker Saddam Hussein out of power.
The real problem is that the Islamic nations do not help their own. This has been proven time and time again. They pimp out their fallen brothers as a means of gaining sentiment for whatever cause they are pushing.
When the Reich fell in Germany, Europe scrambled to help. Hell, the world scrambled to help.
Regardless of the failings of others… what is our part in this?
-We went into a war which greater minds told us would take years with a two week plan.
-Instead of being honest about our motives, we misled our own public and the UN
-Failing to wait for the UN to pass a resolution, people can say what they want about the UN, but the UN was a response to the fall of the Reich and creation of Israel and was designed primarily to keep a country from unilaterally waging war
-Failing to honestly appraise costs of war
-Failing to supply troops adequately
And the IMHO the most remarkable failure we have experienced, and are still experiencing today is forgetting the lessons of vietnam. You cannot wage military war against guerilla war unless you are willing to “kill em all and let god sort em out.”
In the 80’s we had our hand in Guerilla Operations all over the world, some successful, some blew up in our face, but none of them cost 3 trillion dollars and 70% of public opinion. Our guerilla operations contributed to putting Saddam and the Taliban in power…
I am a firm believer that if Bush & Co wanted Saddam and the Taliban, or any Middle Easten leader removed, they could have gone about it without war. Anyone who wants to argue this might want to check on their history.
Also, where the fuck is bin laden? we should have hired the Israelis to hunt him down and kill him on monday night football.
Just my 2 cents.[/quote]
You do make some pretty good points. I have to agree with most of what you said. The only problem with getting the Israelis to find Bin Ladin is most of the Middle East hates them more then us. We also have had several opportunities to take him out, but like I?ve said one of several governments got in our militaries way.
If the President let the military Generals run the war we would have been finished years ago.
[quote]THE_CLAMP_DOWN wrote:
I am talking about Iraq.
The more I learn about the history of our wars, and why we go to war (9/11, pearl harbor, gulf of tonkin), details about this current war, etc. The harder it becomes to support war.
The SOF agreement was just the icing on the cake. They want us gone–yet we want to stay.
What members support this war–and why?
EDIT: ItemFix - Social Video Factory
War is necessary to societies to keep people supporting the State. War is a unifying factor provided that war fervor and support can be maintained.
Liberal democracies fall eventually because a permanent state of war can’t be maintained, and there really is no substitute for war in creating a common cause for the populace. The country dissolves into warring groups. This is why tyranny is mankind’s ideal form of government.
Only by having a world government that has planned regional wars can order be maintained. There are so many benefits to planned wars as to make the demise of war not very likely anytime soon.
So yes, I support the war. I prefer order to anarchy.
[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
rainjack wrote:
LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
rainjack wrote:
If you are going to go to war it should be to destroy the enemy, not try to make friends and pass out food.
Iraqis weren’t the enemy and frankly neither was Hussein.
You need to read the UN resolution.
Perpetuate the lies somewhere else. Anyone but a fucking kool-aid drinker knows this is not the case.
Sorry. You know as much about foreign affairs as you do the real world.
I know enough to not make people hate me.[/quote]
Since when was the goal to be the most popular kid on the block?
My suggestion concerning the Israeli’s was referencing how effectively they got revenge following the 1972 Munich crisis
[quote]pavlovs vodka wrote:
Also, where the fuck is bin laden? we should have hired the Israelis to hunt him down and kill him on monday night football.
Just my 2 cents.[/quote]
Bin Laden is not their concern, nor could they ever stage their army anywhere outside Isreal like we can. THAT would be the start of all hell breaking loose.