[quote]TrainerinDC wrote:
Reading these posts definitely had an unsettling effect on me. I know America isn’t looked at very well in the rest of the world, but even so, there is no reason for some of these words and excuses and cop-outs. I personally am sick and tired of europeans criticizing from the sidelines and saying they would do things differently when they lack the testicular fortitude to man up and make a change in the world. Anyone can talk from the sideline, so far its taken an American. Namely an American Soldier as the main driving force for positive change in this world. Without the American Fighting Man (or woman), Europe would be Germany. Without the American Fighting Man, terror would reign supreme on free thinkers across the world. The American Fighting Man gets looked down on because of his status as the worlds most elite, most fit, top of the line soldier on the planet. He gets spit on, mistreated, and abused. Yet with tenacity, professionalism and strength he carries on.
orion wrote:
PGJ wrote:
Austria-Hungary, you mean, right? And you seem quite proud of that accomplishment. Actually I was refering to WWII, started by Hitler’s sudden rise to power by enciting the population in to believing it was the Jews who caused the German defeat. Then his brown-shirts went around and literally beat up anyone who opposed him. Hmmm, sound like anyone we know…Saddam perhaps…maybe the Iranian crack-pot even? As far as I’m concerned, Germany and Austria have lost all rights to be judgemental about world peace.
That is seriously stupid though, because we still have it in our bones, as a society, how shit like that begins.
Once the brown-shirts are on the streets it is usually to late to do anything about it, most people are too scared to make a move then.
Fear is not an excuse for apathy or inaction. It is more an excuse for the weak to do nothing. This is why major issues in the world have taken place. Had europe acted earlier in WWII, the outcome would have been very different. It is the same here. “Its too late” Apathy is not acceptable.
No, you must stop them when they start making excuses after excuses after excuses why they constantly want more power.
Your stance is pretty much the same that German generals took; they had sworn an oath, who were they to question him, they were only following orders.
Theirs was not to question why, theirs was just to do or die.
The issue here is that soldiers have a duty not to follow a lawful order. As humans, you have choice not to follow the wrong, and turn to the right. Our American Founders, were soldiers for England. They refused to obey the orders of England, and set us on the way to becoming the most powerful nation on this planet. The duty of the soldiers, and the people when given those orders, was to disobey and revolt against the tyrannical.
I understand that this is basically your job too, but how that implies in any way that a government may not be critizised by civilians during wartime is beyond me…
Plus and that may be a bit extreme for a true patriot American, supporting your troops unconditionally is not necessarily a virtue.
Here you are 100% correct. Supporting the troops is NOT a virtue. Is it the privillage of American citizens to have the best military on the planet here for its defense, these troops are not a right or a given, they are a privallage. Furthermore, support the troops is supporting the front line soldier who left his home, wife, children , and put everything on the line for you so you may continue to be in your warm home, with your wife, with your children. They deserve not only the support of Americans but the support of everyone in every nation that has been freed by previous generations of American Fighting Men. That means you, Orion. You are austrian. Your nation was given back its freedom after WWII and allowed to flourish once again.
We supported our troops, it was cold in Russia, they should not have been there in the first place though.
Or we become ultra-liberal and re-define “supporting our troops”:
“Supporting our troops” means from now on to have political plans in the drawer that are as well thought out and executed as the military ones, preferably with decently armored vehicles and body armour, because of all the nasty shit that flies around in a war zone.
You speak from a comfortable spot, in your safe neighborhood and bring up a war zone. Without the threat of a military, german, american, the nationality does not matter, your very neighborhood would be a war zone. You would be fighting for your life every day. Its the strong, and the threat of reprisal by the strong, that keeps the “bad” out of your neighborhood and maintains your freedom.
I sincerely pity you, Orion. Because somewhere along the line you have lost the point. The only way throughout history that drastic changed has occured is through conflict. By your own speech, you would spit on those who paid the ultimate price for your freedom to be here on this message board condemning those who appreciate and respect the sacrifices borne by so many, to allow us all the freedoms I have today.
The other point to be made here, is Americans believe in certain rights. These are the right to free speech, and the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. The American soldiers are defending those rights for myself, and for you, and for the entire world right this minute, and will continue to do so, for as long as America stands strong. Please remember that they are fighting for you, while you run your mouth. [/quote]
The founders were not British soldiers. They were rich land-owners who wanted to keep the taxes for themselves. The American Revolution was, like every other war in the history of man, about money and power.
Americans do not “believe” in certain rights. They are endowed upon us and Congress is forbidden to make any law enjoining them.
“It’s the strong, and the threat of the strong that keeps your neighborhood safe.” WTF? You do realize that is totalitarianism you’re describing, right? Might makes right?
Stop wrapping yourself in the fucking flag and playing more-patriotice-than-thou.
