Do You Believe in God?

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
122

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
OctoberGirl wrote:
electric_eales wrote:
OctoberGirl wrote:

Renton’s answer to Gael and orion and EE are very much what I would have said.

I respect a person of faith and belief. I don’t have to agree with it, I don’t have to believe it, it is just a quality unto itself and if you can’t understand it is possible you don’t want to and you just want to nitpick.

EE I don’t know why you feel the need to argue with someone about their belief. What does it matter to you? Don’t try and blow smoke up my ass and say you were just curious. You weren’t. What you wanted was to point fingers and call a believer “brain washed”.

Just accept it might not be your belief and no one is asking you to convert.

I don’t know what I believe yet but I think about it often.

I am genuinely interested in what someone believes, if they say they beleive in god but that they are not religious, the idea of a god exsisiting was created in conjunction with the first religions and gods have featured in almost all religions that have been created since.

So to believe in god but to not follow any religious teachings must mean that you have devised your own personal belief in what God is.

I would not argue or mock someone for explaining their pesonal beliefs, for example I have a frined who genuinely belives the whole universe is in like a little snow globe on the desk of an alien god like being, and that the whole universe is as insignificant as one simple ornament. I have never argued this with him becuase i totally respect that belief, he has derived at that himself.

I might say to people who worship the cristian god and follow the Christian faith some derogatory things about their religion, but I reguarlly have to listen to Christians telling me how to life my life according to their faith, so why can I not have the same freedom to point out the infalabilities of that faith.

Do you really want to understand though or do you want someone to profer their reasonings so you can take a kick through it?

Your last sentence is implying that you may not have an open mind in regards to the subject. Do you and I just haven’t gotten that yet?

Discussion for understanding is great. Discussion to just wail and lambast is a waste of time.

October Girl,
You’re trying to have a discussion with someone who thinks throwing his feces and living in the tree tops is an ideal life. He also couldn’t write a coherent sentence to save his life.

Good luck with that.

[/quote]

Oh damn now the Muslim murdering Christian crusader is having a pop.

HH see that bag of skin and bones attached to your head, you’re an animal survival and reproduction are whats important, why question your exsistance, why you could be enjoying it.

By the way what is feces?

123

[quote]electric_eales wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
electric_eales wrote:
I think as humans we surpassed aourselves as soon as we became intelegent enough to question our own exsistance.

I think we had it good as cavemen, eating sleeping and fucking, thats basically what its all about.

Look at monkey’s those guys are having a fucking great crack, slinging poo around, fucking and eating all day, and not one of them sitting there thinking to themself ‘mmm I wonder how all this came to be’

As a species we have become to intellegnet for our own good andnow we have fucked up the whole sex food and sleep party

Outlaw crack.

Is it ‘inlaw’ where you live?

[/quote]

It must be legal where you live because you sure must hit the pipe a lot.

I’ve heard schoolteachers in England can smack the kids upside the head with a stick if they do something stupid. Read that paragraph that you wrote and even YOU would have to wail away on yourself. Its so poorly written, you need a 2 x 4.

124

[quote]electric_eales wrote:
I am also derogatory about the Christian version of god, if we look at the original and true image of god from the bible, it is basically a god who looks like man (as he created man in his own image) who has absoloute power over us, I like to question that belief and sometimes this comes across as offemsive to people who do believe.
[/quote]

The Christian version of God is incorporeal. The terms used to describe God with positive attributes are equivocal (or amphibolous); the meaning is not that, for example, God sits literally on a throne, or that God literally has a face, or hands, or breath. These are equivocal terms that signify the effects of God, while translating them into human terms that are more readily understandable.

125

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
electric_eales wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
electric_eales wrote:
I think as humans we surpassed aourselves as soon as we became intelegent enough to question our own exsistance.

I think we had it good as cavemen, eating sleeping and fucking, thats basically what its all about.

Look at monkey’s those guys are having a fucking great crack, slinging poo around, fucking and eating all day, and not one of them sitting there thinking to themself ‘mmm I wonder how all this came to be’

As a species we have become to intellegnet for our own good andnow we have fucked up the whole sex food and sleep party

Outlaw crack.

Is it ‘inlaw’ where you live?

It must be legal where you live because you sure must hit the pipe a lot.

I’ve heard schoolteachers in England can smack the kids upside the head with a stick if they do something stupid. Read that paragraph that you wrote and even YOU would have to wail away on yourself. Its so poorly written, you need a 2 x 4.

[/quote]

I agree, it is poorly written, I having been typing away in a bit of a flurry lately as I am quite busy, so my appologies for my shitty grammar, spelling and general messy typing.

But lets not get into the childish act of pointing out poor grammar in posts again becuase I have just noticed a fair few mistakes in what you have written above.

Where did you read school teachers in England can smack kids? are you not allowed to (or cannot afford to) read books that have been printed post war?

126

[quote]nephorm wrote:
electric_eales wrote:
I am also derogatory about the Christian version of god, if we look at the original and true image of god from the bible, it is basically a god who looks like man (as he created man in his own image) who has absoloute power over us, I like to question that belief and sometimes this comes across as offemsive to people who do believe.

The Christian version of God is incorporeal. The terms used to describe God with positive attributes are equivocal (or amphibolous); the meaning is not that, for example, God sits literally on a throne, or that God literally has a face, or hands, or breath. These are equivocal terms that signify the effects of God, while translating them into human terms that are more readily understandable.[/quote]

I understand that if ‘God made man in his own image’ then he made us to look similar to him, therefore he must have hands and a face etc… I am just going by what it says in the bible on that one

127

[quote]Varqanir wrote:
“It does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods or no God. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg.” Thomas Jefferson

I tolerate all religions and belief systems, insofar as they attempt neither to pick my pocket nor break my leg as a penalty for not sharing that religion or belief system.

Strangely enough, this roughly mirrors my feeling about government policies.[/quote]

Well, if you live in a society where you pay taxes (and who doesn’t?) and where churches are tax exempt, but avail themselves of various public services, then you are indirectly financing them by paying their fair share.

In that sense, they do pick your pockets.

128

I definitely believe in God, and make no apologies for it. I also believe that Jesus’ rising from the dead is as historically probable as, say, Julius Caesar in fact being a ruler of Rome. I may be wrong, but at least I have an assessment on the validity of an historical event (or non-event, to atheists and many, many others).

Most everything in life is quantified on a spectrum of probabilities. As ridiculous as it may sound, do I KNOW that there was a Civil War in the US in the late-1800s? No; it seems very probable. Do I KNOW that there was a terrible bubonic plague that wiped out a lot of Constantinople in the 500s AD? No. Heck, do I even 100%-KNOW that my mom is my own mom - or that my friend John really lives in Denver? No. I don’t see why some folks need concrete evidence for everything that they believe - especially when they believe tons of things that are already simply a matter of probabilities. (and high probabilities, at that)

I am also one of these crackpots that believes in the supernatural. For those rational people who scoff at the idea of the supernatural, I tip my hat to you for being so consisent in also believing that that close friend of family member who died is simply fertilizing the flowers. For those rational people who scoff at the idea of the supernatural - yet believe that that close friend of family memeber is now in Heaven or some sort of other afterlife - your logic re: the supernatural being impossible makes no sense to me.

Finally, I defer to personal experience with what I believe to be the Holy Spirit’s mostly-off, but sometimes-on presence in my life to account for my belief in God. I very much assign some probability (3%, maybe) that it is really just some evolutionary trait that is a mind-game inside of my own head. Or some other explanation(hope being an opiate, I’m crazy / inbalanced, etc). I like to play the odds as I see them, though.

129

[quote]pookie wrote:
Well, if you live in a society where you pay taxes (and who doesn’t?) and where churches are tax exempt, but avail themselves of various public services, then you are indirectly financing them by paying their fair share.

In that sense, they do pick your pockets.
[/quote]

I don’t understand what you mean by “avail themselves of various public services…”

One of the local churches in my extremely small corner of the world volunteers its facilities to the gov’t to do their monthly WIC counseling.

I was on the finance committee for that church, and it never received a penny in gov’t programs, while offering discounted food for the poor, WIC counseling, and gas/electricity bill assistance.

I don’t see how one can say that church is picking any pockets.

130

[quote]electric_eales wrote:
I understand that if ‘God made man in his own image’ then he made us to look similar to him, therefore he must have hands and a face etc… I am just going by what it says in the bible on that one
[/quote]

The term “image” is equivocal. Image does not denote the shape or configuration of a thing, but rather it is applied to to the notion in virtue of which a thing is constituted as a substance and becomes what it is, or the true reality of a thing as far as it is a particular being. So for man, that notion is human apprehension, or the soul; man is made with a soul as God is purely soul.

131

[quote]electric_eales wrote:

But lets not get into the childish act of pointing out poor grammar in posts again becuase I have just noticed a fair few mistakes in what you have written above.

Where did you read school teachers in England can smack kids? are you not allowed to (or cannot afford to) read books that have been printed post war?

[/quote]

How would you know of any mistakes? Sure, I make mistakes, but I think my posts are somewhat readable. Yours are pathetic.

Anyway, humans don’t fling poo or eat and fuck all day because God expects more from us than that. To be a grunting ape requires very little thought; is THAT what you want? You might want to inquire about why you think that way, of humanity and yourself.

God exists, but experiences of God must remain subjective and unproveable. As far as I know, having God speak on command doesn’t happen. He has spoken to me. I don’t expect or want you to believe me. I know it happened and that’s quite enough for me.

132

[quote]rainjack wrote:
I don’t understand what you mean by “avail themselves of various public services…”[/quote]

You are familiar with public services, right? Roads, police, firefighters, aqueducts, etc. All those things your taxes pay for.

Churches and their staff all get to use those things - call the police to report vandalism, call the fire department if there’s a fire, get their trash picked up, have the road leading to their doorstep maintained, etc. exactly as anyone else can. The difference is that everyone else pays taxes to support those services. They don’t.

That your local church does a lot of charity work and community service is commendable; but why not simply agree share the same tax burden as the community itself has to? And in that way alleviate some of it for the entire community.

133

Personally I’m a believer. May not practice my faith but most certainly no denying God exsist.

I’m surprised B-3 hasn’t chimed in on this conversation. She did missionary work for several years.

134

[quote]pookie wrote:
Churches and their staff all get to use those things - call the police to report vandalism, call the fire department if there’s a fire, get their trash picked up, have the road leading to their doorstep maintained, etc. exactly as anyone else can. The difference is that everyone else pays taxes to support those services. They don’t.
[/quote]
Don’t the parishioners already pay taxes? Church property should be subject to the same property taxes I have to pay.

135

[quote]nephorm wrote:
triple-10sets wrote:
This is a question I think about alot at work mainly. I see people come and go and I ask myself “Whats the meaning ?” Why are we here. Is there a God ? If he exist’s whats his purpose ? I believe there’s something powerful out there but I want to see it whether it be a him or a her. What do you believe ?

Each individual’s end (purpose) is happiness.

God must be non-corporeal, which does not admit of gender. Further, God is entirely unlike human beings. One cannot ascribe what would be a perfection in a human being to what would be a perfection in God. God is one, not composite. Therefore we cannot ascribe qualities to God like a “purpose.” To ask what is God’s purpose is to ask one of two questions:

  1. What is God’s intention?
    or
  2. For what end was God brought into being?

But if God is atemporal and incorporeal, the first question is nonsensical; intention is a human attribute that we use to describe wishes or preferred outcomes which may not occur. God would not have such wishes or preferred outcomes, and so cannot have intention.

The second question is also nonsensical, because if there were a being prior to God (which brought God into being), then God would not be God, but rather a secondary being.

One thing is absolutely clear: it is impossible for a human being to intellect God.[/quote]

Not if God has chosen to reveal his attributes to man in human language and through the things He has made.

136

[quote]will to power wrote:
AdamC wrote:
Does anyone think love is proof of God? I mean, why do we love? What is the purpose? Is it just for survival?

Survival, helps form social structures conductive to passing on copies of your genes [bearing in mind relatives also have copies of your genes so them surviving/being healthy/reproducing is also a plus for your genes]. [/quote]

What about when you love a friend as oppose to a lover or family member?

137

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
Don’t the parishioners already pay taxes?[/quote]

Yes, but employees of a business have also already paid taxes and businesses aren’t exempt from taxes.

In most places, they aren’t.

138

[quote]6PackZack wrote:
Personally I’m a believer. May not practice my faith but most certainly no denying God exsist.

I’m surprised B-3 hasn’t chimed in on this conversation. She did missionary work for several years.
[/quote]

I wouldn’t call the missionary position “work” especially for the girl. Unless she is a working girl.

139

[quote]pookie wrote:
LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
Don’t the parishioners already pay taxes?

Yes, but employees of a business have also already paid taxes and businesses aren’t exempt from taxes.

Church property should be subject to the same property taxes I have to pay.

In most places, they aren’t.
[/quote]

Other charities are also tax exempt.

140

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
electric_eales wrote:

But lets not get into the childish act of pointing out poor grammar in posts again becuase I have just noticed a fair few mistakes in what you have written above.

Where did you read school teachers in England can smack kids? are you not allowed to (or cannot afford to) read books that have been printed post war?

How would you know of any mistakes? Sure, I make mistakes, but I think my posts are somewhat readable. Yours are pathetic.

Anyway, humans don’t fling poo or eat and fuck all day because God expects more from us than that. To be a grunting ape requires very little thought; is THAT what you want? You might want to inquire about why you think that way, of humanity and yourself.

God exists, but experiences of God must remain subjective and unproveable. As far as I know, having God speak on command doesn’t happen. He has spoken to me. I don’t expect or want you to believe me. I know it happened and that’s quite enough for me.

[/quote]

some humans fling poo, some fuck and eat all day too, some like you just talk poo and eat all day

So gos was not happy with mankind when we were cavemen? Oh no hang on that does not count becuase he has not been invented by then.

Your missing the point again HH

Humans are eveoled from micro organisms and have worked their way to the top of the food chain on Earth, but Humans intellengence has led to the introduction of religion which has spawned many wars and billions of deaths, our technological advances are now depleting the earths resources and poluting it at the same time.

My point about monkeys is that without believing n God or questioning there own exsistance they are surviving and thriving with their limited itellengence, where as Humans on the other hand are making a bit of a cock of it

141

[quote]electric_eales wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
electric_eales wrote:

But lets not get into the childish act of pointing out poor grammar in posts again becuase I have just noticed a fair few mistakes in what you have written above.

Where did you read school teachers in England can smack kids? are you not allowed to (or cannot afford to) read books that have been printed post war?

How would you know of any mistakes? Sure, I make mistakes, but I think my posts are somewhat readable. Yours are pathetic.

Anyway, humans don’t fling poo or eat and fuck all day because God expects more from us than that. To be a grunting ape requires very little thought; is THAT what you want? You might want to inquire about why you think that way, of humanity and yourself.

God exists, but experiences of God must remain subjective and unproveable. As far as I know, having God speak on command doesn’t happen. He has spoken to me. I don’t expect or want you to believe me. I know it happened and that’s quite enough for me.

some humans fling poo, some fuck and eat all day too, some like you just talk poo and eat all day

So gos was not happy with mankind when we were cavemen? Oh no hang on that does not count becuase he has not been invented by then.

Your missing the point again HH

Humans are eveoled from micro organisms and have worked their way to the top of the food chain on Earth, but Humans intellengence has led to the introduction of religion which has spawned many wars and billions of deaths, our technological advances are now depleting the earths resources and poluting it at the same time.

My point about monkeys is that without believing n God or questioning there own exsistance they are surviving and thriving with their limited itellengence, where as Humans on the other hand are making a bit of a cock of it

[/quote]

Animals don’t use concepts like we do. Humans conceptualize time and use words with future orietation. How is the ability to conceptualize a bad thing, compared to your ideal mindless world of fucking and eating from the nearest tree?

Seriously, I’m reading your posts and have to wonder if you write so poorly and such stupid stuff because you’re autistic or what? Ever see the movie ‘Rainman’? Are you a very good driver? Tell you what, man, let’s hit Vegas and you can card count for me…