[quote]rsg wrote:
Sloth wrote:
Put him in a stew!
Holy crap!
I’m hungry. Praise the lord.[/quote]
Rub A Dub Dub…Thanks for the grub…Yay god!
sorry for the jijack guys but this little question does not really warrant its own thread.
Major argument at a pub quiz tonight, I even spilled my fucking peanuts!!!
Anyway can someone please tell me did Jesus’s mother Mary witness his crucifiction (according to the bible?)
Cheers
Electric E,
You seem very angry over past experiences in your life. That is understandable but do not blame God when bad things happen. I do not have the time to go in depth tonight but consider the following when it comes to God and whether or not He exists:
Just look at creation and how it all works. When you consider the complexity of the universe it takes far more faith to believe in something else other than a Creator. Tide comes in - tide goes out. Or, the human body and all of it complexities. To think that the human body just evolved over time is too much of a stretch for me.
We can look at the animal world and how the different species have their own unique charateristics that allow their survival. For instance, the elephant’s ears work as radiators to keep it cool. Or how some animals change colors to hide from its prey. These things all point to a “Designer”.
As far as the bad things that happen to people that is something I would be happy to discuss. I am not some “religious guy” just someone who believes in God and His Som Jesus Christ.
The evidence also points to His existence as well.
[quote]pookie wrote:
pat wrote:
Now that is truly funny…We ought to start a Guinea Pig fighting ring. Raise really mean guineas and teach them how to fight. If they don’t fight, then who ever squeaks the loudest wins.
I really would like to see a mean guinea pig. These animals are so docile you wonder how they ever managed to survive in the wild.
[/quote]
I do not believe in guinea pigs.
And they are malevolent.
[quote]bald eagle wrote:
Electric E,
You seem very angry over past experiences in your life. That is understandable but do not blame God when bad things happen. I do not have the time to go in depth tonight but consider the following when it comes to God and whether or not He exists:
Just look at creation and how it all works. When you consider the complexity of the universe it takes far more faith to believe in something else other than a Creator. Tide comes in - tide goes out. Or, the human body and all of it complexities. To think that the human body just evolved over time is too much of a stretch for me.
We can look at the animal world and how the different species have their own unique charateristics that allow their survival. For instance, the elephant’s ears work as radiators to keep it cool. Or how some animals change colors to hide from its prey. These things all point to a “Designer”.
As far as the bad things that happen to people that is something I would be happy to discuss. I am not some “religious guy” just someone who believes in God and His Som Jesus Christ.
The evidence also points to His existence as well.
[/quote]
You sound like the sort of person that goes around knocking on doors
[quote]bald eagle wrote:
Just look at creation and how it all works. When you consider the complexity of the universe it takes far more faith to believe in something else other than a Creator.[/quote]
Because the universe is complex and mysterious, we are to suppose the existence of something even more complex and mysterious to explain it?
Gravity.
Then you don’t properly understand evolution.
Yet those elephants will also shower themselves with water or wet dirt to further cool themselves. Why is the “ear radiator” design insufficient? Why design an overheating elephant in the first place?
I really don’t understand the reasoning behind that kind of argument. People point out an animal that copes with a “problem X” in a certain way and marvel at the designer’s ingenuity… yet they never ask why the designer didn’t simply remove “problem X” to begin with.
If Apple had designed a 12 pound iPod and fixed the problem by selling it with 30 helium-filled balloons attached, people would ridicule them and mock their designers. When similar “design” is seen in nature - from a supposedly much more capable designer, no less - people are filled with wonder.
Nature is filled with examples of “jury-rigged” “design” that fit perfectly with a theory of random modifications propagated by natural selection, but require odd illogical explanations when attributed to a designer.
If you don’t have a better explanation, they might. But natural selection explains quite well how advantageous traits are selected and propagated down to the descendants.
Ok. Why would a Designer do this:
Infantile Tay-Sachs Disease: Infants with Tay-Sachs disease appear to develop normally for the first six months of life. Then, as nerve cells become distended with gangliosides, a relentless deterioration of mental and physical abilities occurs. The child becomes blind, deaf, and unable to swallow. Muscles begin to atrophy and paralysis sets in. Death usually occurs before the age of 4 or 5.
That very same Designer is then described as being all-powerful, all-knowing, all-good and said to love us.
Would you inflict something like that on someone you love?
The evidence of what?
[quote]Electric_E wrote:
Major argument at a pub quiz tonight, I even spilled my fucking peanuts!!!
Anyway can someone please tell me did Jesus’s mother Mary witness his crucifiction (according to the bible?)[/quote]
John 19:25 - Now there stood by the cross of Jesus his mother, and his mother’s sister, Mary the [wife] of Cleophas, and Mary Magdalene.
John’s is the only Gospel that explicitly mentions Mary (his mother) being there.
[quote]Electric_E wrote:
bald eagle wrote:
Electric E,
You seem very angry over past experiences in your life. That is understandable but do not blame God when bad things happen. I do not have the time to go in depth tonight but consider the following when it comes to God and whether or not He exists:
Just look at creation and how it all works. When you consider the complexity of the universe it takes far more faith to believe in something else other than a Creator. Tide comes in - tide goes out. Or, the human body and all of it complexities. To think that the human body just evolved over time is too much of a stretch for me.
We can look at the animal world and how the different species have their own unique charateristics that allow their survival. For instance, the elephant’s ears work as radiators to keep it cool. Or how some animals change colors to hide from its prey. These things all point to a “Designer”.
As far as the bad things that happen to people that is something I would be happy to discuss. I am not some “religious guy” just someone who believes in God and His Som Jesus Christ.
The evidence also points to His existence as well.
You sound like the sort of person that goes around knocking on doors
[/quote]
No not at all. Look, I may never convince you or anyone else on this forum that there is indeed a God. Christians are always accused of being close-minded. But people who refuse to believe in God refuse to refuse to read the Bible with an open mind. What do you have to lose?
Hey, if I am wrong about God and if I am wrong about salvation only though Christ - what do I have to lose? I live a very satisfying life. I live a rather “normal life” like most others. But, if I am right then those who choose not to believe have much to lose.
Don’t let “hypocritical Christians” get in the way of the truth. No one becomes perfect by trusting Christ. They still have their faults and shortcomings.
[quote]pookie wrote:
Yet those elephants will also shower themselves with water or wet dirt to further cool themselves. Why is the “ear radiator” design insufficient? Why design an overheating elephant in the first place?
[/quote]
An elephant is an animal that can use both it’s ears and it’s trunk to cool itself down. No flaw in design there. <:)
[quote]bald eagle wrote:
Electric_E wrote:
bald eagle wrote:
Electric E,
You seem very angry over past experiences in your life. That is understandable but do not blame God when bad things happen. I do not have the time to go in depth tonight but consider the following when it comes to God and whether or not He exists:
Just look at creation and how it all works. When you consider the complexity of the universe it takes far more faith to believe in something else other than a Creator. Tide comes in - tide goes out. Or, the human body and all of it complexities. To think that the human body just evolved over time is too much of a stretch for me.
We can look at the animal world and how the different species have their own unique charateristics that allow their survival. For instance, the elephant’s ears work as radiators to keep it cool. Or how some animals change colors to hide from its prey. These things all point to a “Designer”.
As far as the bad things that happen to people that is something I would be happy to discuss. I am not some “religious guy” just someone who believes in God and His Som Jesus Christ.
The evidence also points to His existence as well.
You sound like the sort of person that goes around knocking on doors
No not at all. Look, I may never convince you or anyone else on this forum that there is indeed a God. Christians are always accused of being close-minded. But people who refuse to believe in God refuse to refuse to read the Bible with an open mind. What do you have to lose?
Hey, if I am wrong about God and if I am wrong about salvation only though Christ - what do I have to lose? I live a very satisfying life. I live a rather “normal life” like most others. But, if I am right then those who choose not to believe have much to lose.
Don’t let “hypocritical Christians” get in the way of the truth. No one becomes perfect by trusting Christ. They still have their faults and shortcomings.
[/quote]
It’s a bit disingenous to propose Pascal’s Wager and try pass it off as one’s own thinking on the subject.
Or maybe I have misinterpreted you.
[quote]pookie wrote:
bald eagle wrote:
Just look at creation and how it all works. When you consider the complexity of the universe it takes far more faith to believe in something else other than a Creator.
Because the universe is complex and mysterious, we are to suppose the existence of something even more complex and mysterious to explain it?
Tide comes in - tide goes out.
Gravity.
Gravity just evolved??
Or, the human body and all of it complexities. To think that the human body just evolved over time is too much of a stretch for me.
Then you don’t properly understand evolution.
Like I said it takes far more faith to believe in evolution than it does a Creator. Not one scientist has ever gone from being creationist to an evolutinist. But there have been many evolutionists who are now creationists. After looking at the all the different processes that would have to take place many have come to the conlusion that the odds are too overwhelming. Again, when you look at how things would have to happen to produce what we know today, it takes much more faith to be an evolutionist.
We can look at the animal world and how the different species have their own unique charateristics that allow their survival. For instance, the elephant’s ears work as radiators to keep it cool.
Yet those elephants will also shower themselves with water or wet dirt to further cool themselves. Why is the “ear radiator” design insufficient? Why design an overheating elephant in the first place?
I really don’t understand the reasoning behind that kind of argument. People point out an animal that copes with a “problem X” in a certain way and marvel at the designer’s ingenuity… yet they never ask why the designer didn’t simply remove “problem X” to begin with.
If Apple had designed a 12 pound iPod and fixed the problem by selling it with 30 helium-filled balloons attached, people would ridicule them and mock their designers. When similar “design” is seen in nature - from a supposedly much more capable designer, no less - people are filled with wonder.
Nature is filled with examples of “jury-rigged” “design” that fit perfectly with a theory of random modifications propagated by natural selection, but require odd illogical explanations when attributed to a designer.
Or how some animals change colors to hide from its prey. These things all point to a “Designer”.
If you don’t have a better explanation, they might. But natural selection explains quite well how advantageous traits are selected and propagated down to the descendants.
Do you realize how much faith it takes to believe this? As complex as the most powerful camera lense is - it is not even close to the human eye. Yet we are to believe the eye just evolved over time? When the camera lense needed someone to design it??? I don’t see how anyone can look at the human body and all of its detail - hearing, touch, smell, taste, reproduction, - and then believe it just evolved over time. Talk about a leap of faith.
As far as the bad things that happen to people that is something I would be happy to discuss. I am not some “religious guy” just someone who believes in God and His Som Jesus Christ.
Ok. Why would a Designer do this:
Infantile Tay-Sachs Disease: Infants with Tay-Sachs disease appear to develop normally for the first six months of life. Then, as nerve cells become distended with gangliosides, a relentless deterioration of mental and physical abilities occurs. The child becomes blind, deaf, and unable to swallow. Muscles begin to atrophy and paralysis sets in. Death usually occurs before the age of 4 or 5.
That very same Designer is then described as being all-powerful, all-knowing, all-good and said to love us.
Would you inflict something like that on someone you love?
Why do you assume that God does this. Look, I don’t claim to know everything and I certainly can’t explain everything. Terrible things do exist in this world. They exist because of sin and the fall of man. You may think this is just some fairy tale. That’s fine. But once you buy into the fact that there is a Creator - which I believe takes less faith, then the Bible becomes our source of God’s written word to us. No, I can’t explain why diseases exist and inflict people. Look, it blows my mind too that God has always been. We may not like or understand why bad things exist, but they do. We will never fully understand God and the “why” of His plan. But when you create your own universe then you can call the shots.
The evidence also points to His existence as well.
The evidence of what?
[/quote]
Well for one, we changed the calendar - BC to AD.
[quote]Neuromancer wrote:
bald eagle wrote:
Electric_E wrote:
bald eagle wrote:
Electric E,
You seem very angry over past experiences in your life. That is understandable but do not blame God when bad things happen. I do not have the time to go in depth tonight but consider the following when it comes to God and whether or not He exists:
Just look at creation and how it all works. When you consider the complexity of the universe it takes far more faith to believe in something else other than a Creator. Tide comes in - tide goes out. Or, the human body and all of it complexities. To think that the human body just evolved over time is too much of a stretch for me.
We can look at the animal world and how the different species have their own unique charateristics that allow their survival. For instance, the elephant’s ears work as radiators to keep it cool. Or how some animals change colors to hide from its prey. These things all point to a “Designer”.
As far as the bad things that happen to people that is something I would be happy to discuss. I am not some “religious guy” just someone who believes in God and His Som Jesus Christ.
The evidence also points to His existence as well.
You sound like the sort of person that goes around knocking on doors
No not at all. Look, I may never convince you or anyone else on this forum that there is indeed a God. Christians are always accused of being close-minded. But people who refuse to believe in God refuse to refuse to read the Bible with an open mind. What do you have to lose?
Hey, if I am wrong about God and if I am wrong about salvation only though Christ - what do I have to lose? I live a very satisfying life. I live a rather “normal life” like most others. But, if I am right then those who choose not to believe have much to lose.
Don’t let “hypocritical Christians” get in the way of the truth. No one becomes perfect by trusting Christ. They still have their faults and shortcomings.
It’s a bit disingenous to propose Pascal’s Wager and try pass it off as one’s own thinking on the subject.
Or maybe I have misinterpreted you.[/quote]
I am not sure what you are referring to.
[quote]bald eagle wrote:
Well for one, we changed the calendar - BC to AD.[/quote]
That’s your evidence?
It’s original, I’ll grant you that. Although it’s evidence for the historical importance of the Church, it’s not evidence for a creator.
I prefer BCE/CE myself.
…bald eagle, a couple of questions for you:
-
Why do you need the reward of eternal life in heaven to lead a good life?
-
Why do you presume to know what is good for other’s?
-
Beliefs are culturally bound: why do you think one set of beliefs are more valid than the next?
-
Why do you believe in God and not in Zeus [or Krom]?
-
The quality of my life is not dependant on beliefs: yours is? Why?
…thanks in advance…
[quote]pookie wrote:
Electric_E wrote:
Major argument at a pub quiz tonight, I even spilled my fucking peanuts!!!
Anyway can someone please tell me did Jesus’s mother Mary witness his crucifiction (according to the bible?)
John 19:25 - Now there stood by the cross of Jesus his mother, and his mother’s sister, Mary the [wife] of Cleophas, and Mary Magdalene.
John’s is the only Gospel that explicitly mentions Mary (his mother) being there.[/quote]
Thanks a Million Pookie 
[quote]Electric_E wrote:
bald eagle wrote:
Electric E,
You seem very angry over past experiences in your life. That is understandable but do not blame God when bad things happen. I do not have the time to go in depth tonight but consider the following when it comes to God and whether or not He exists:
Just look at creation and how it all works. When you consider the complexity of the universe it takes far more faith to believe in something else other than a Creator. Tide comes in - tide goes out. Or, the human body and all of it complexities. To think that the human body just evolved over time is too much of a stretch for me.
We can look at the animal world and how the different species have their own unique charateristics that allow their survival. For instance, the elephant’s ears work as radiators to keep it cool. Or how some animals change colors to hide from its prey. These things all point to a “Designer”.
As far as the bad things that happen to people that is something I would be happy to discuss. I am not some “religious guy” just someone who believes in God and His Som Jesus Christ.
The evidence also points to His existence as well.
You sound like the sort of person that goes around knocking on doors
[/quote]
It has been posted before, but this is just too good.
Apparently Mormons to not react kindly when bothered Saturday mornings.
[quote]ephrem wrote:
…bald eagle, a couple of questions for you:
-
Why do you need the reward of eternal life in heaven to lead a good life?
-
Why do you presume to know what is good for other’s?
-
Beliefs are culturally bound: why do you think one set of beliefs are more valid than the next?
-
Why do you believe in God and not in Zeus [or Krom]?
-
The quality of my life is not dependant on beliefs: yours is? Why?
…thanks in advance…[/quote]
Hey ephrem, thanks for the questions.
-
It is not that I need the reward of Heaven. But once you believe in a Holy God who created all things then one must accept His plan. And His plan is one that calls for a Savior. The Bible also speaks of Heaven and Hell as being real places. The Bible does not teach that leading a good life will get you into Heaven, rather it teaches faith in Christ and forgiveness of sins as being the only way.
-
I don’t. But if I believe the Bible then I also believe that all people are in need of a Savior in order to gain eternal life in Heaven.
-
All religions can’t be right. Christianity is the only one based on an eternal God who created all things. All other religions are based on a prophet or an invented god.
-
There is simply no other plausible explanation for this universe other than creation and that takes a Creator.
-
I would not say that the quality of my life is dependent on my beliefs but rather my purpose. We are all made in the image of God and we were created for a purpose. We were made to worhsip something.
[quote]orion wrote:
Electric_E wrote:
bald eagle wrote:
Electric E,
You seem very angry over past experiences in your life. That is understandable but do not blame God when bad things happen. I do not have the time to go in depth tonight but consider the following when it comes to God and whether or not He exists:
Just look at creation and how it all works. When you consider the complexity of the universe it takes far more faith to believe in something else other than a Creator. Tide comes in - tide goes out. Or, the human body and all of it complexities. To think that the human body just evolved over time is too much of a stretch for me.
We can look at the animal world and how the different species have their own unique charateristics that allow their survival. For instance, the elephant’s ears work as radiators to keep it cool. Or how some animals change colors to hide from its prey. These things all point to a “Designer”.
As far as the bad things that happen to people that is something I would be happy to discuss. I am not some “religious guy” just someone who believes in God and His Som Jesus Christ.
The evidence also points to His existence as well.
You sound like the sort of person that goes around knocking on doors
It has been posted before, but this is just too good.
Apparently Mormons to not react kindly when bothered Saturday mornings.
[/quote]
I am neither a Morman or a Jehovahs Witness and I don’t like being bothered on Saturday mornings either. I am simply someone who happens to believe the Bible. Call me crazy, but I think anyone who buys into evolution will buy into anything.
[quote]bald eagle wrote:
orion wrote:
Electric_E wrote:
bald eagle wrote:
Electric E,
You seem very angry over past experiences in your life. That is understandable but do not blame God when bad things happen. I do not have the time to go in depth tonight but consider the following when it comes to God and whether or not He exists:
Just look at creation and how it all works. When you consider the complexity of the universe it takes far more faith to believe in something else other than a Creator. Tide comes in - tide goes out. Or, the human body and all of it complexities. To think that the human body just evolved over time is too much of a stretch for me.
We can look at the animal world and how the different species have their own unique charateristics that allow their survival. For instance, the elephant’s ears work as radiators to keep it cool. Or how some animals change colors to hide from its prey. These things all point to a “Designer”.
As far as the bad things that happen to people that is something I would be happy to discuss. I am not some “religious guy” just someone who believes in God and His Som Jesus Christ.
The evidence also points to His existence as well.
You sound like the sort of person that goes around knocking on doors
It has been posted before, but this is just too good.
Apparently Mormons to not react kindly when bothered Saturday mornings.
I am neither a Morman or a Jehovahs Witness and I don’t like being bothered on Saturday mornings either. I am simply someone who happens to believe the Bible. Call me crazy, but I think anyone who buys into evolution will buy into anything.
[/quote]
No way, because I am pretty convinced that the theory of evolution is spot on and I do not believe in invisible beings in the sky.