Do You Believe in God?

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
382

[quote]TQB wrote:
haney1 wrote:
TQB wrote:

Given that this was written specifically to sort Unitarians from Trinitarians, it does have a contentious ring to it…

Didn’t know this specific conflict arose as early as Irenaeus second century. when we find the following

(3) Though no uniform type of Creed can be surely recognized among the earlier Eastern writers before the Council of Nicaea, an argument which has been considered by many to disprove the existence of any Apostolic formula, it is a striking fact that the Eastern Churches in the fourth century are found in possession of a Creed which reproduces with variations the old Roman type. This fact is full admitted by such Protestant authorities as Harnack (in Hauck’s Realencyclopädie, I, 747) and Kattenbusch (I, 380 sq.; II, 194 sqq., and 737 sq.). It is obvious that these data would harmonize very well with the theory that a primitive Creed had been delivered to the Christian community of Rome, either by Sts. Peter and Paul themselves or by their immediate successors, and in the course of time had spread throughout the world.

(4) Furthermore note that towards the end of the second century we can extract from the writings of St. Irenæus in southern Gaul and of Tertullian in far-off Africa two almost complete Creeds (Transc. Note: hyperlink to Acreed2.gif) agreeing closely both with the old Roman Creed (R), as we know it from Rufinus, and with one another. It will be useful to translate from Burn (Introduction to the Creeds, pp. 50, 51) his tabular presentation of the evidence in the case of Tertullian. (Cf. MacDonald in “Ecclesiastical Review”, February, 1903):

Can’t speak for Ireneaus, but Tertullian was a known Unitarian-basher until he went off the straight and narrow and became a heretic himself.
[/quote]

tradition though holds that it was around long before them though. Either way though The creed is the prevailing definiotn of modern day Orthodoxy. which all three sects EOC\RCC\Protestants would fully agree on. Which is what the continention is.

383

[quote]electric_eales wrote:
Thanks for the post Haney, I appreciate you posting that, its very interesting and I have many thoughts about it, but I will pay you the respect you deserve by not questioning or debating your reasons for believing in god[/quote]

Thank you. perhaps another time we can discuss these issues.

for now though school and work have me slammed.

384

[quote]haney1 wrote:
Which one of those three are in disagreement over this.

I believe in God, the Father almighty,
creator of heaven and earth.
I believe in Jesus Christ, God’s only Son, our Lord,
who was conceived by the Holy Spirit,
born of the virgin Mary,
suffered under Pontius Pilate,
was crucified, died, and was buried;
he descended to the dead.*
On the third day he rose again;
he ascended into heaven,
he is seated at the right hand of the Father,
and he will come to judge the living and the dead.
I believe in the Holy Spirit,
the holy catholic Church,
the communion of saints,
the forgiveness of sins,
the resurrection of the body,
and the life everlasting. Amen.

[/quote]

Ok, I checked a bit more deeply into this and you’re right.

While Protestants hold “Sola Fide” as a basic tenet, they also hold that someone of true faith will, by truly living it, perform the good works.

I stand corrected.

385

[quote]rsg wrote:

We didn’t evolve out of apes.
[/quote]

Just to make this point clear, we are apes.

386

[quote]pookie wrote:
haney1 wrote:
Which one of those three are in disagreement over this.

I believe in God, the Father almighty,
creator of heaven and earth.
I believe in Jesus Christ, God’s only Son, our Lord,
who was conceived by the Holy Spirit,
born of the virgin Mary,
suffered under Pontius Pilate,
was crucified, died, and was buried;
he descended to the dead.*
On the third day he rose again;
he ascended into heaven,
he is seated at the right hand of the Father,
and he will come to judge the living and the dead.
I believe in the Holy Spirit,
the holy catholic Church,
the communion of saints,
the forgiveness of sins,
the resurrection of the body,
and the life everlasting. Amen.

Ok, I checked a bit more deeply into this and you’re right.

While Protestants hold “Sola Fide” as a basic tenet, they also hold that someone of true faith will, by truly living it, perform the good works.

I stand corrected.

[/quote]
not a problem.

As always talking with you about these things is a pleasure.

387

[quote]electric_eales wrote:
Thanks for the post Haney, I appreciate you posting that, its very interesting and I have many thoughts about it, but I will pay you the respect you deserve by not questioning or debating your reasons for believing in god[/quote]

Finished with de-tox…good for you. Now we can read what you’re writing.

I disagree with believing in God because of what someone else says or writes. To do so means that you accept into your consciousness a concept which has no foundation in experience or is analytic. Until you experience God, the perfect position to have would be agnosticism.

I have directly experienced God. I therefore accept God’s existence as a subjective experience. No one should take my word for it nor should they accept anyone’s word — that is anti-thinking.

My suspicion is, btw, that God can become aware of individuals. God can choose to intervene in our world if God so chooses. We are cells in the body of God and God can become aware, just like if you become aware of an infection or similar. For example, Saddam was an infection and the United States is the immune system.

388

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
electric_eales wrote:
Thanks for the post Haney, I appreciate you posting that, its very interesting and I have many thoughts about it, but I will pay you the respect you deserve by not questioning or debating your reasons for believing in god

Finished with de-tox…good for you. Now we can read what you’re writing.

I disagree with believing in God because of what someone else says or writes. To do so means that you accept into your consciousness a concept which has no foundation in experience or is analytic. Until you experience God, the perfect position to have would be agnosticism.

I have directly experienced God. I therefore accept God’s existence as a subjective experience. No one should take my word for it nor should they accept anyone’s word — that is anti-thinking.

My suspicion is, btw, that God can become aware of individuals. God can choose to intervene in our world if God so chooses. We are cells in the body of God and God can become aware, just like if you become aware of an infection or similar. For example, Saddam was an infection and the United States is the immune system.

[/quote]

If I’m following this correctly, we can then deduce that God became aware and talked to you because you’re some kind of infection? Like an annoying zit or something?

I’ve had a lot of these debates, but it’s the first time I’ve had someone defend his beliefs by claiming to be some kind of Divine Pimple.

389

I am trying to imagine god thinking to himself

God >

“mmm who shall I go and make a connection with on earth today?, the president of the US and leader of the free world naaa, maybe mother Teresa naaaa, the pope perhaps naaaa, maybe one of those Islamic extremists I could try and change his ways and stop him killing Christians errrr naa. Fuck I know I would go see some fat red neck bigot in Texas, yes thats seems like a great idea”

talk about ‘mysterious ways’

390

[quote]pookie wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
electric_eales wrote:
Thanks for the post Haney, I appreciate you posting that, its very interesting and I have many thoughts about it, but I will pay you the respect you deserve by not questioning or debating your reasons for believing in god

Finished with de-tox…good for you. Now we can read what you’re writing.

I disagree with believing in God because of what someone else says or writes. To do so means that you accept into your consciousness a concept which has no foundation in experience or is analytic. Until you experience God, the perfect position to have would be agnosticism.

I have directly experienced God. I therefore accept God’s existence as a subjective experience. No one should take my word for it nor should they accept anyone’s word — that is anti-thinking.

My suspicion is, btw, that God can become aware of individuals. God can choose to intervene in our world if God so chooses. We are cells in the body of God and God can become aware, just like if you become aware of an infection or similar. For example, Saddam was an infection and the United States is the immune system.

If I’m following this correctly, we can then deduce that God became aware and talked to you because you’re some kind of infection? Like an annoying zit or something?

I’ve had a lot of these debates, but it’s the first time I’ve had someone defend his beliefs by claiming to be some kind of Divine Pimple.
[/quote]

LOL! Good one. No, God (for whatever reason) became aware of great pain on my part, the death of a loved one, and for some mysterious reason made His existence known to me. I don’t ask you to believe me, I’m simply relating my experience and my understanding, very limited as it is.

One part of the Bible is true (IMO): we are made in God’s image. God is just like an infinite human. That’s my understanding of it, crazy as it sounds.

391

[quote]electric_eales wrote:
I am trying to imagine god thinking to himself

God >

“mmm who shall I go and make a connection with on earth today?, the president of the US and leader of the free world naaa, maybe mother Teresa naaaa, the pope perhaps naaaa, maybe one of those Islamic extremists I could try and change his ways and stop him killing Christians errrr naa. Fuck I know I would go see some fat red neck bigot in Texas, yes thats seems like a great idea”

talk about ‘mysterious ways’

[/quote]

Need more detox, boozer — I’m in Ohio. Reading just is outside your ken, eh?

God can become aware of and intervene in more than one situation (I’d suppose). Why God intervenes in one situation and not in another is something I do not know. I have to assume, like Leibniz, that this world is the best possible world and that God arranges things to keep it so.

I cannot know God so, of course, this is pure speculation, purely for my own enjoyment.

392

I believe in God but I do not agree with the beliefs many christians hold. For one I do not believe he was sent here to die for our sins.

393

Yes, I absolutely believe in God.

What I don’t believe is that God would send someone to a fiery pit of hell to burn for an eternity. To believe so is very contradictory to the concept that God loves us for forever and always forgives. It simply cannot be both ways, although, they try to explain this contradiction away with theological babblespeak every time I bring this up.

394

[quote]bigflamer wrote:
Yes, I absolutely believe in God.

What I don’t believe is that God would send someone to a fiery pit of hell to burn for an eternity. To believe so is very contradictory to the concept that God loves us for forever and always forgives. It simply cannot be both ways, although, they try to explain this contradiction away with theological babblespeak every time I bring this up.[/quote]

Why pick and choose what you want to believe? The bible says both things, and contradicts itself a hundred times over, that is why you (well I) cannot believe the bull written in there.

395

[quote]bigflamer wrote:
Yes, I absolutely believe in God.

What I don’t believe is that God would send someone to a fiery pit of hell to burn for an eternity. To believe so is very contradictory to the concept that God loves us for forever and always forgives. It simply cannot be both ways, although, they try to explain this contradiction away with theological babblespeak every time I bring this up.[/quote]

Interesting. Something for to ponder.

RC Sproul has a series on hell, and one of the points he talks about is this very thing. He contends that God Loves Justice and righteousness (ie. His nature if you will) more than anything else.

He also contends that God has two kinds of love for mankind

  1. for those who are redeemed (love of a father for his child)

  2. God loves unbelievers like he does all of the rest of his creation. This is however a disconnected sort of love.

Also the idea of Hell being a fiery pit I think is lacking. although the other possibility of it terrifies me more than the common accepted place.

Instead I believe the writers of the NT use very descriptive langauge for that day in time which indicates Hell is not a fiery place, but instead is a place of immense sorrow for rejecting God.

Also the concept of Hell is seperation from God is possibly in error as well.

Instead God is most likely there, but He is judging the souls that are there.

I hope that wasn’t too theological for you.

396

[quote]pookie wrote:
will to power wrote:
By the way, none of the stuff atheists do believe puts us in the minority. The majority just believe in things we do not.

If you want to go by majorities, even the Catholics, who claim 2 billion adherents, don’t form a global majority. 4.5 billion people aren’t Catholic. For any faith in any form, there are more people who don’t believe in that particular faith than those who do.

So atheists, in fact, are part of the vast majority who don’t believe in your faith, whichever it may be.
[/quote]

True, I didn’t think of it that way as I was just lumping the supernatural all in together as one thing.

397

I believe in God but there are many things I do not agree with when it comes to religios teachings. First off I think it is stupid when someone says just believe what is the harm. I doubt it works that way you have to truly believe within. I also dont believe in Hell, I think what instead happens is you cease to exist. If you are an evil person or reject god as your creator/father you simply never wake when you die. No punishment or pain simply the end.

I do not believe he died for the sin of man. God loved us before Jesus came and after he left, I hardly believe he would demand the death/sacrifice of his son for us. Jesus came as a mortal to earth to live and die as a human. It was ignorant man who killed him, the crucifixion is an outcome of the fears of religious leaders of the day, who regarded his teachings as a threat to their positions of authority.

I dont think to believe in God requires the dismissal of evolution. I believe that evolution is orderly and controlled. Primordial life was intelligently planned, implanted, and monitored instead of arising spontaneously.Mortal man is not an evolutionary accident the purpose of evolution on earth was to produce creatures of free will that can develop spiritual natures and survive their material existence, going on to have eternal spiritual lives.

Sorry for being a little scattered with my thoughts but it is difficult for me when discussing things of this nature.

398

God says all who do not place their faith and love in him are sent to hell (cant be arsed to find it now but thats whats in the bible) now what about the people living in Mediterranean islands etc who have never even seen a white man or any form of civilisation. They don’t know anything of this Christ and god etc… they have their beliefs in spilling blood on a stone for greater crops and animal sacrifices and eating animals, and believe in the sun… these poor people have not been taught or anything… but god put them there… gave them no means whatsoever to even know he exists… and then sends them to hell when they die because they didn’t know about this so called God? That poor dude with a bone through his nose will be in hell having a pineapple shoved up his arse and he wont know what the fuck he’s done wrong… Nice god.

399

Where is big bicep boy gone? maybe his mommy didn’t spot him to well and he died under his barbell at home trying to push out some really poor form bench presses?

400

[quote]xXSeraphimXx wrote:
I believe in God but there are many things I do not agree with when it comes to religios teachings. First off I think it is stupid when someone says just believe what is the harm. I doubt it works that way you have to truly believe within. I also dont believe in Hell, I think what instead happens is you cease to exist. If you are an evil person or reject god as your creator/father you simply never wake when you die. No punishment or pain simply the end.

I do not believe he died for the sin of man. God loved us before Jesus came and after he left, I hardly believe he would demand the death/sacrifice of his son for us. Jesus came as a mortal to earth to live and die as a human. It was ignorant man who killed him, the crucifixion is an outcome of the fears of religious leaders of the day, who regarded his teachings as a threat to their positions of authority.

I dont think to believe in God requires the dismissal of evolution. I believe that evolution is orderly and controlled. Primordial life was intelligently planned, implanted, and monitored instead of arising spontaneously.Mortal man is not an evolutionary accident the purpose of evolution on earth was to produce creatures of free will that can develop spiritual natures and survive their material existence, going on to have eternal spiritual lives.

Sorry for being a little scattered with my thoughts but it is difficult for me when discussing things of this nature.

[/quote]

Sir, You are a Unitarian;-). I guess the creed didn’t work.

401

[quote]electric_eales wrote:

I will say again, nobody died on purpose they were killed by Roman soldiers, if the remaining followers want to put a spin on it and CLAIM they died on purpose for our sins you go ahead and believe that, but I do not think they crawled up that crucifix and nailed themselves to it to die for our sins, and even if they did, what is a few smelly hiipies bleeding to death on a post in the middle of the desert going to achieve? How is that going to aid anyone,

[/quote]

Okay let’s take this step by step.

First, most of the Apostles died horrible deaths for NOT renouncing Jesus Christ as God. My question (and I’m not trying to be argumentative) is this: Why would they have died when in fact they had a choice? And they did have a choice that is clear. If they were the original ones who were making up stories about Christ wouldn’t they have simply said, "just kidding…hey don’t stick that sword in me, or don’t hang me upside down etc. But, they didn’t say any of that. They went to their graves proclaiming that Jesus Christ is Lord.

And why? Because they walked with Jesus, they knew him as well as anyone on earth. They saw him heal the sick raise the dead and they were in full accord that he was in fact who he said he was.

If none of this were true it would have made perfect sense for them to avoid death by finally telling the truth, if in fact they were lying.

Secondly, it sounds like you’re a bit confused on who died for our sins and why. The Apostles did NOT die for our sins. Only one man did this, Jesus Christ. The Apostles died because they would not renounce their belief in who Jesus Christ was and is. They walked with Christ, they knew him, they told the truth and suffered horrific deaths because of it.

Good question and one that many if not most people who are not Christians (and some who are) are confused about.

God demands payment for your sins, it’s that simple. The world we live in today would have you believe that we are all beautiful people and unless you kill, rape or steal from someone you are not really sinning. However, that’s not the case, we are all sinners in many ways. In the old testament they used to sacrifice animals for payment for these sins. goats, bulls, lambs etc.

When Jesus Christ came into the picture he was the once and final sacrifice for your sins. And that’s one reason he was (and is) referred to as “the lamb of God”. You may have heard that phrase. Through our acceptance of Gods greatest gift we are forgiven for our sins, past, present and future.

The only way that sin can be forgiven now is through our belief in God sending his one and only son as a sacrifice for our sins.

Again, think about.