[quote]Sloth wrote:
electric_eales wrote:
If I was to follow the Christian religion I would do it properlly and not interperet what is written into different meanings to suit my own needs, but as I recognise the bible to simply be a fable, an old story book I see no reason in following any of its connected religions.
I’m honestly not sure how to take this. [/quote]
I am not the most eloquent at realting mu thoughts so my appologies
what do you not understand, and I will try and explain better
[quote]electric_eales wrote:
For those of you who believe in a god but do not follow religion I think your reasons for believing are somewhere around thus:
Also if you have to believe that the universe was created by god then who created god? and who created god’s creator and who cre… etc… etc…
[/quote]
Whoo-boy, now this kind of debate I don’t do on a forum.
Not really… only extreme literalist which are fringe in Christianity hold to the fact that it has to be exactly six days.
In the pale of orthodoxy there are disagreements on things, but none of them change the over all message or it importance.
So Six days, or 4.5 billion years is not the point. The point is that God did it.
Even Augustine argued that the days were not literal days. And he did that with out a science book in front of him.
There are essentials, and non-essentials to the faith. Almost all Denominations are divided by non-essentials.
so why make that argument?
EOC\Catholic\Protestant all believe Heaven is reached the same way.
[quote]electric_eales wrote:
Sloth wrote:
electric_eales wrote:
If I was to follow the Christian religion I would do it properlly and not interperet what is written into different meanings to suit my own needs, but as I recognise the bible to simply be a fable, an old story book I see no reason in following any of its connected religions.
I’m honestly not sure how to take this.
I am not the most eloquent at realting mu thoughts so my appologies
what do you not understand, and I will try and explain better
[/quote]
Well, what is properly? Sola Scripture? Or, scripture and tradition? Or, etc?
By properly I mean that everything written in the bible should be taked literally as it is written, this means that you should believe that god created the world in 6 days and that god created man first then woman using one of mans ribs etc. etc. You should not change what was written or reinterpret it to suit you, if you are going to do something do it properly.
As time has elapsed people have changed the meaning of the bible to suit, originally the bible was seen as the complete word of god and the whole bible was actual truth, many things have changed, we have had the crusades, burnings at the stake, and now Bush has started the crusades agian, we can look back and realise the error in our ways.
Over centuries of reinterpretation millions of people now view the bible in many different ways, in our 21st century world of great scientific enlightenment you now have many people denoucing the bible all together but clinging onto their belief in god, some even speak of god as an entity, haha this makes me laugh becuse before star trek next generation these people did not even know what an entity was! This is why I can see the Christain faith fading out just as many other religions have faded out with time, still 2000 years is a fairly good run.
[quote]electric_eales wrote:
By properly I mean that everything written in the bible should be taked literally as it is written, this means that you should believe that god created the world in 6 days and that god created man first then woman using one of mans ribs etc. etc. You should not change what was written or reinterpret it to suit you, if you are going to do something do it properly.
[/quote]
Everything should be taken literally? what about poetry? or uses of hyperbole? that is a pretty dogmatic statement that you might want to reconsider based on just the following obersavtions.
So when Jesus says an eye for an eye. Does He mean that we are too literally remove someones eye? or is He using a figure of speech? What about when the Bible says God owns the cattle on a thousand hills. Who owns the cattle on one thousand and one?
[quote]electric_eales wrote:
By properly I mean that everything written in the bible should be taked literally as it is written, this means that you should believe that god created the world in 6 days and that god created man first then woman using one of mans ribs etc. etc. You should not change what was written or reinterpret it to suit you, if you are going to do something do it properly.
As time has elapsed people have changed the meaning of the bible to suit, originally the bible was seen as the complete word of god and the whole bible was actual truth, many things have changed, we have had the crusades, burnings at the stake, and now Bush has started the crusades agian, we can look back and realise the error in our ways.
Over centuries of reinterpretation millions of people now view the bible in many different ways, in our 21st century world of great scientific enlightenment you now have many people denoucing the bible all together but clinging onto their belief in god, some even speak of god as an entity, haha this makes me laugh becuse before star trek next generation these people did not even know what an entity was! This is why I can see the Christain faith fading out just as many other religions have faded out with time, still 2000 years is a fairly good run.[/quote]
But, you assume the Bible is intended to be taken literally, as a whole. That’s not the view of all denominations. Sacred or Holy tradition is just as important as the bible itself to some denominations.
[quote]Sloth wrote:
What I’m finding odd is that two atheists seem to favor the protestant approach to the bible. Very odd.[/quote]
Maybe you need to start asking atheist which God it is that they don’t believe in.
[quote]pookie wrote:
Sloth wrote:
What I’m finding odd is that two atheists seem to favor the protestant approach to the bible. Very odd.
Maybe you need to start asking atheist which God it is that they don’t believe in.
[/quote]
I’d assume none.
[quote]pookie wrote:
Sloth wrote:
What I’m finding odd is that two atheists seem to favor the protestant approach to the bible. Very odd.
Maybe you need to start asking atheist which God it is that they don’t believe in.
[/quote]
What atheist has that kind of time?
Just give me lists I can denounce “en bloc”.
I was wondering if you’d show up…
[quote]haney1 wrote:
Not really… only extreme literalist which are fringe in Christianity hold to the fact that it has to be exactly six days.
In the pale of orthodoxy there are disagreements on things, but none of them change the over all message or it importance.
So Six days, or 4.5 billion years is not the point. The point is that God did it. [/quote]
I wasn’t really addressing the 6 days, although that had been mentioned previously.
I was angling more towards stuff like “The Catholic Heresies” according to the Orthodox; you know, that rift that split the Church in two in 1054.
It’s pretty hard to both argue for six literal days and to ask to be taken seriously.
I don’t know. One of the differences between Catholics and Orthodox is that the Catholics believe in “Progressive Revelation” (ie, that God’s message to man is an ongoing endeavor). The Orthodox reject that and contend that all we need to know was said by Jesus to his apostles.
I’d say that’s a pretty essential disagreement.
Another one: Protestants hold to the dogma of “Sola Fide” (or “by faith alone”) and believe that faith in Jesus is enough to be saved. Catholics, on the other hand, believed that faith, on its own, without corresponding actions, is worthless.
So while a Protestant can safely profess his love of Jesus while rooting for the death of Venezuelans, a Catholic might not feel as comfy in doing the same.
Is a divergence on faith and salvation a disagreement on the “non-essential?”
[quote]so why make that argument?
EOC\Catholic\Protestant all believe Heaven is reached the same way. [/quote]
When you go through Jesus, how does that work exactly?
Sorry, couldn’t resist.
[quote]orion wrote:
pookie wrote:
Sloth wrote:
What I’m finding odd is that two atheists seem to favor the protestant approach to the bible. Very odd.
Maybe you need to start asking atheist which God it is that they don’t believe in.
What atheist has that kind of time?
Just give me lists I can denounce “en bloc”.[/quote]
Well I agree… but E_Eales apparently has a customized form of atheism suitable only for debate with fundamentalist evangelicals.
They let anyone in the atheist club these days… I think I’ll check out those apatheists.
[quote]pookie wrote:
orion wrote:
pookie wrote:
Sloth wrote:
What I’m finding odd is that two atheists seem to favor the protestant approach to the bible. Very odd.
Maybe you need to start asking atheist which God it is that they don’t believe in.
What atheist has that kind of time?
Just give me lists I can denounce “en bloc”.
Well I agree… but E_Eales apparently has a customized form of atheism suitable only for debate with fundamentalist evangelicals.
They let anyone in the atheist club these days… I think I’ll check out those apatheists.
[/quote]
But all the cool kids are apatheists now.
That makes me wanna be religious.
Almost.
LOL, so much confusion happening on this thread.
How about this:
How many members of the god-squad here do not believe in dinosaurs, and evolution?
You know the funniest one I’ve heard? Dinosaur fossils where put there by god to test our faith. I took about 10 minutes to compose myself after some guy told me this, he couldn’t understand what was so funny.
Orion, pic attached for reference.
[quote]rsg wrote:
LOL, so much confusion happening on this thread.
How about this:
How many members of the god-squad here do not believe in dinosaurs, and evolution?
You know the funniest one I’ve heard? Dinosaur fossils where put there by god to test our faith. I took about 10 minutes to compose myself after some guy told me this, he couldn’t understand what was so funny.
Orion, pic attached for reference.[/quote]
As a member of the God-Squad (badge# 6493) I’d say, cool pic.
Edit: Oh, and I believe in Dinos and evolution.
Understood. If I remember correctly even the RCC has recanted some of those things. Although Luther really never wanted to leave the RCC he wanted reform for the abuses the church had been committing. IE relics, and free soul�??s from hell if you paid for the new Chapel in Rome.
[quote]
Even Augustine argued that the days were not literal days. And he did that with out a science book in front of him.
It’s pretty hard to both argue for six literal days and to ask to be taken seriously.
[/quote] But was it out of the question in the 4th Century? Before this wonderful age of enlightenment we live in.
But that is not an essential. It has nothing to do with God�??s redemption of man.
Different yes, but not outside of Orthodoxy.
Why? Lets say the essentials are all stated in the Apostles creed. Would this make the list? Hardly. What makes it . Jesus, who He was, what He did, Virgin Birth, etc�?�.
Not really because I would say a someone who professes to have faith but does not show it by some sort of works, or fruit of the spirit then I would question their faith as well. Still though Catholics believe it is faith in Jesus that brings salvation. Not works.
You are way too rational to understand the complexities of this part of faith.
Good to talk to you again.
[quote]rsg wrote:
LOL, so much confusion happening on this thread.
How about this:
How many members of the god-squad here do not believe in dinosaurs, and evolution?
You know the funniest one I’ve heard? Dinosaur fossils where put there by god to test our faith. I took about 10 minutes to compose myself after some guy told me this, he couldn’t understand what was so funny.
Orion, pic attached for reference.[/quote]
I believe in God with all my heart, mind, and soul. Who constitues what a day is? God could have created and destroyed the dinosaurs in a day to him which could be millions of years to us.
[quote]rsg wrote:
LOL, so much confusion happening on this thread.
How about this:
How many members of the god-squad here do not believe in dinosaurs, and evolution?
You know the funniest one I’ve heard? Dinosaur fossils where put there by god to test our faith. I took about 10 minutes to compose myself after some guy told me this, he couldn’t understand what was so funny.
Orion, pic attached for reference.[/quote]
I believe in Dino’s, and don’t really care about the evo - creation aspect.
[quote]austin_bicep wrote:
I believe in God with all my heart, mind, and soul. Who constitues what a day is?
[/quote]
Unless you live in another world, on earth in present time a day is 24 hours long - it has been for the last 2000 years.
[quote]
God could have created and destroyed the dinosaurs in a day to him which could be millions of years to us.[/quote]
Maybe so, maybe not. Why would he allow REALLY REALLY bad people to live? Or to kill 100s of 1000s? Instead of a complicated answer (which i’m sure you have), I’ll give you a simple one:
There is no god.
(Sorry, long day again and I’m in a mood for causing crap). 
[quote]rsg wrote:
(Sorry, long day again and I’m in a mood for causing crap). :D[/quote]
Ah. Well, thanks for being upfront about it, at least. Hope tomorrow turns out better for you.