I have never seen in the Bible where the angels were designated as having no free will. A rebellion is mentioned with part of them being cast out of Heaven.
I have read those things as well. My question is not if there is no mention of him not having free will, but if he was given free will.
It would be quite laborious for the Bible to mention all the things the angels or men were without. Like, thereās no mention of Adam not having gills, fins, feathers, antlers, etc. But weāre made aware that man was given free will. Are we ever made aware that the same is true of celestial beings?
It would be better for you to start with
Fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom.
And then, A disciple is not above his teacher, nor a servant above his master
1 Like
Well fuck if heās read those parts who wouldnāt be afraid of God?! God donāt fuck around. OG terrorist shit.
1 Like
If Satan and his angels fought against Michael and his angels, were defeated, and thrown out of Heaven, does this not indicate free will to you?
It does not, no. If they did not have free will, they could very easily have been forced to do those things. Itās why I ask the question.
We arenāt talking about what he does but what you do. Do you believe slavery is ok? If not, then you are not morally inline with the Bible. You disagree with God.
I thought one should love God. Or did God read Machiavelli?
Your questions are philosophical meanderings. Iāve read plenty of your posts over the years, and know philosophy to be one of your interests
Since you know the gospel message already, it is up to you to either accept or reject. God gave you free will to decide. I pray you accept.
I appreciate the sentiment, but an answer to my question would be kind as well. These are actually theological meanderings, rather than philosophical. I studied theology for 8 years of my life, so it always holds special interest.
I feel we can rule that there is no actual reported evidence of Satan having free will. Which certainly begs some interesting follow on questions.
New King James Version 2 Peter 2:4
For if God did not spare the angels who sinned, but cast them down to hell and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved for judgment;
Sinning could only be done by those having free wil
Does God have an ego? Why would he punish people who didnāt believe in him? Why would it be important for him at all that people believe in him? Wouldnāt doing good only because you believe it will get you something (eternal bliss) be selfish? Why would God reward selfishness?
There are 4200+ religions. Are they all describing the same God? So, as long as you believe in any of the 4200+ religions, you will be equally rewarded in the after life? Or are some religions simply wrong, and following them with full faith will still get you nowhere, because God will say āyou picked the wrong oneā?
Did God create the whole Universe? So, life on other planets must also worship him? Do they have bibles that describe how their world was created by our Lord?
If someone is a Buddhist monk and devotes his life to spreading kindness and tolerance go to Hell because Buddhism does not involve a belief in God?
1 Like
1 Like
http://content.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,2065289,00.html
I remember this article from a while back about a preacher catching flack for thinking Ghandiās not in hell. If Ghandiās in a hell and a serial murderer and rapist says heās sorry at the end and believes in God and isnāt Iād say the system has some flaws.
Point me to the verse that says that slavery is okay or that condones āowningā another person.
But first realize that through translation the word slave has been added in place of the Hebrew word for servant. Also realize that the New Testament represents a ānew covenantā with God that replaces many of the traditions of the Old Testament. The New Testament does not condone slavery other than a statement that the laws of the land should be followed. See Romans 13:1-2. Since slavery used to be legal but now is no longer in most countries and Christians are to obey the law, slavery is not approved or wanted by God as you claim.
This is also a tangent to the subject of the thread and likely warrant its own discussion, if you could discuss it calmly.
I do not agree with this myself. An omnipotent being would absolutely have the ability to make others sin absent of free will.
1 Like
Try the entire book of Job. Thereās a business meeting discussed.
Dualism is a pagan concept introduced by Nazarenes into the Torah.
That said, Shaitan, et al, were created to be the āRed Teamā to use a military training term. So the practical function of an enemy and a perhaps overly committed Red Team is almost zero from the human perspective.
4 Likes
I get what youāre saying, but i think the term āfearā in this sense is deeper than āafraidā - these conversations can get mired in semantics, but thatās half the fun isnāt it - to me, I interpret it that God may smote you instantly, or the effects of choices that go against God (i.e towards evil or viciousness (as opposed to virtuous)) can lead to undesirable and miserable conditions which one OUGHT to fear given better choices (those that tend towards virtue as opposed to vice) can result in more desirable conditions (diminishing of discomfort).
Clearly this idea ought to be expanded more, and this is an incomplete thought, but Iād be interested to hear you thoughts on it regardless.
my question is, as the myth goes, some angels (led by Lucifer) rebelled against God; wouldnāt that imply they had free will? If they didnāt why would God compel beings under his complete control to rebel against Him?
thanks for answering haha
which returns me to my question? Why would God do that? Granted this would be pure speculation of course but Iād be interested in the theoriesā¦
With it being an omnipotent being, I donāt feel we can accept the implication. God would absolutely have the power to compel one to rebel.
It begs several interesting questions indeed. Such as: did God create Satan (Lucifer) because he needed him? Perhaps out of a need for balance, or as a being whose purpose was to punish the wicked, or as a tester of the faith of humans, or as an agent to be the cause of evil (since God is benevolent), etc etc.
But even more interestingly: even if God granted Satan free will, as an all powerful AND all knowing being, he already knew the outcome of his creation before doing so.
He works in mysterious waysā¦
1 Like
I have always left myself open to the possibility of Godās existence, and welcome various interpretations. This is one of those interpretations that I will always reject. Lesson one: heās a tyrant. Lesson two: youāre his slave. Horrible stuff.