Yay!
Booo! Hissā¦
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@unreal24278 I think TwoJar made an important point here. It seems to me your personal values have morphed, as is the norm, over the last few years. Nowadays, you appear to have more centrist or slightly right-leaning socio-political views which overlap with what you value in a relationship. If memory serves, your family is Modern Orthodox, and some of what you value in a relationship now mirrors those cultural and family values. Conversely, you arenāt practicing/ dati/ religious and understandably donāt want to marry a religious (Jewish) woman. In short, you want someone who shares core personal values of a traditional but not necessarily religious family.
So far, youāve lived in Australia and, I presume, western Europe. While there are undoubtedly pockets of right-leaning people, those cultures skew left. Simply looking at numbers, youāre going to meet more āwoke-istsā in those countries. I can relate, in that my socio-political views and values are more right than left, but my home state of New Mexico is predominantly Democrat, with two notable exceptions (attitudes towards abortion and private firearm ownership.) Here, my personal values align with, letās say 35 percent of eligible women I meet. If I were to move to Tennessee or South Dakota, that number would probably jump to 75-plus percent. The numbers alone would make meeting someone much easier.
A second demographic working against you is your generation. Youāre definitely not far right, but youāre also not far left. I have a brother in his early 30s, a sister in her early 20s, and a niece in her early 20s. Even though a mere decade separates them, from observing them and their social circles, Iāve noted a marked difference between the attitudes of the 30-somethings and the 20-somethings - there are much more left, āwokeā people in the latter group.
In fact, my 24-year-old sister shares the same concern, even distress, that you do. Sheās been with her current boyfriend since her teen years. Sheās unhappy in the relationship, has broken it off and dated other guys, but returns to it because she has even less in common with other guys and fears she wonāt be able to find anyone. In short, her experience mirrors yours.
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Good olā SoDak.
āMeth. Weāre on it.ā
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Yes, I did lean more left prior to covid hitting. However covid in Australia, moving out and living by myself amongst a few other key variables served to moderate my views a tad.
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Actuallyā¦ believe it or notā¦ America
For seven years
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Do you know of a reason this man hasnāt proposed to your sister yet? At the least sheās been with him for five years.
As you know, Iām opposed to the dragged-out, wasteful, and exhausting girlfriend-boyfriend construct. The back-and-forth nature of many accumulates baggage, and in some cases Iāll apply the term damage.
My friend and I have daughters. Today we actually discussed this construct and although my friend is happily married and loves his daughter, he looked back and said he too cannot figure out why he had ārelationshipsā and that had he been more serious he might have had more kids by now. We both agree that parental intervention is called for if our daughters are in one of these dragged-out situations.
If this ever happens in the future when my daughter is an adult, Iām simply calling the guy out if I think heās OK, and saying, āLook, you have been courting dating for X amount of time, and I know what you two are doing! So far I think youāre alright. Iām giving you until X date to propose. Donāt give me this story about how you gotta save for a ring or you need to wait until you have one gorillion in the bank! If you donāt do it by that date, donāt call and donāt come around anymore.ā
Itās a tough call to make when the daughter is an adult, perhaps financially independent and no longer living at home
Unless you expect your daughter to be in a 3 year long term relationship by the age of seventeen or eighteen, I donāt see what one can realistically do if youāve got a daughter who REAAALLLLLY likes this guy yet neither party is willing to commit. Unfortunately these scenarios usually eventuate with heartbreak.
It reminds me of the situation Iām in now. If I do something my folks donāt like, they canā¦ call me out on it, but thatās about it.
They could kick me out of home, but I can workā¦ I can live independentlyā¦ and Iām not going to be home for a long time regardless.
The iron reign one has on their kids starts to crumble at around 17-18, because at that age (with initiative) most should be perfectly capable me of leaving home.
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However this could backfire could it not?
I actually somewhat like this approach BECUASE if the guy is taking advantage of your daughter and/or is terrified of commitment, chances are he will flake.
Horrible scenario, but better than wasting another five years in a relationship thatās going nowhere.
However letās say thereās a scenario wherein the guy doesnāt careā¦ because heās a jackass and your daughter continues seeing him
What then? Both are adults, and youāve alienated both your daughter and her partner as a result?
Physical confrontation wonāt be that effective eighteen years from now.
If I was currently dating someone my folks didnāt likeā¦ I canāt see what they could realistically do about it at this point in time.
They could disown me, but I think thatās a horrible ultimatum
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There are no guarantees but you speak as it all or nearly all people have no serious attachments to family members or are not worried about the consequences of their actions regarding family members.
It seems you are applying your mentality to young people as a whole. Many people are not lone wolves who will just āup and leaveā their family.
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Yes!
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I was actually very close to my family. But growing up I was consistently isolated and found I had to fend for myself.
Iām actually staying with extended family in Europe right now
Family is VERY important to me, however if I was in love and the ultimatum was continue seeing the person who I thought was my soul mate vs not see my parents for a few years (or longer)ā¦ Iād probably choose the dating option
As much as I love my family, I wasnāt fond of my life in Australia. I suppose this made it far, far easier for me to drop everything and leave for a prolonged duration of timeā¦ actually not sure when Iāll come back. Thereās a vague idea, but the ultimate goal is to leave for good.
I still contact my folks regularly when requested to give them updates and put them at ease so they know Iām okay
Love can be blinding though
Iāve seen soooooo many young adults disobey parents to keep seeing their special someone.
Even going as far as to cause serious problems at home and/or move out. Parent/child relationships that were previously close can come under serious strain from this. Thereās always the possibility the daughter chooses āthat guyā for the time being (hopefully not though)
And if she does, it wouldnāt make her a bad person. Young people frequently make mistakes that they learn from afterwards.
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Perhaps you mean romantic gibberish, or infatuation.
I donāt have to be part of that. And the tone for dealing with the opposite sex can be set long before a daughter meets some wishy-washy non-committal man-child or a son winds up being a perennial boyfriend
You and I have fundamentally different views on marriage and love it seems, from what you write.
I think many young people nowadays have a lack of direction. Marriage doesnāt really cross the mind for most in their early 20s.
You can say "if Iād known what I know nowāā
But you also need to remember you were a different person back then. If you (now) went back in time to talk to the 25 year old, black metal loving Brickhead how do you think he would have reacted to you?
I donāt think he would have instantaneously hopped on board, but I could be wrong.
Growing up shapes us, moulds us into the people we are.
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Yes, puppy love (we are referring to young adults arenāt we?)
I donāt have many views on marriage considering I am not married.
Not sure if we have fundamentally different views on marriage. I assume we both believe marriage is special, sacred and it symbolises a very important step within oneās life trajectory that involves settling down and creating a life together with someone else (and kids)
With that being said, not everyone has to get married or have kids. I think itās a little bit sad when people end up alone forever though.
But not everyone sees it that way.
Our views on familial relations however might differ. As much as I love my family, if I felt (for whatever reason) that they were holding me back and thus negatively impacting my life on the basis of imparting their own set of beliefs over mine ā¦ say they wanted to disown me for going out with a non Jewish girl (I donāt think theyād do thisā¦ I think theyād be devastated, but they wouldnāt kick me out)ā¦ Iād probably choose to stay with the girl IF we were going to get married
As an adult, there isnāt a chance Iām going to let my family control me. Discipline is important to accept, but becoming your own fully formed, independent individual who isnāt dependent on parental guardians is also an important construct associated with growing up.
However not every child is the same. You can set a tone, unfortunately this doesnāt mean the daughters partner will accept it nor does it necessarily mean your daughter will listen to what you have to say. When one is young you can just say āno, youāre groundedā and it works. When your child is now a young adult, imparting control is considerably more difficult.
Remember no one can read your mindā¦ many people donāt take kindly to being told what to do/being micromanaged after they turn 18-21. It feels patronising. So while you obviously mean well, the intent behind your actions may be interpreted differently.
Being overtly strict can stem resentment, itās a fine balancing act
Why not focus on raising your daughter in a manner that equips her to notice these red flags as opposed to dealing with the issue when it arises.
If the issue never arisesā¦ then the potential for this sort of conflict never exists
Remember Iām NOT a parentā¦ I know Jack about shit when it comes to parenting. I can only go on anecdotal observations and clinical literature. However there is no academic literature covering the field of āwhat should I do if I donāt like my daughters boyfriendā.
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I am not an applicable example to begin with considering my negligent father, overly-occupied mother, and inadequate socialization.
It appears you seriously underestimate how many families have expectations and standards that are actually met and have such loving, involved, and functional environments that children do not want to stray from.
I hope you do not take this the wrong way. I have noticed some things. I have an autistic acquaintance who also talks consistently of negative what-ifs. I suppose if someone goes by them then he canāt take a firm stance on anything. Second, Iāve noticed that some of those whoāve experienced dysfunction or undesired life outcomes speak as if these are inevitable to all! My wifeās parents have a close friend, and despite being a successful guy, has several times said, āall families are dysfunctional.ā Uh, yeahā¦ sure.
By strayā¦does this include travelling? Or taking a semester off to work overseas?
Or are we talking ācutting out family entirelyā.
The latter is extremely difficult to doā¦ however if push comes to shove and you have a child harbouring diametrically opposed beliefs to that of yours it CAN happenā¦ and itās not pretty when it does.
If a familial dynamic is truly functional, a daughter shouldnāt have to bow to her fathers command when it comes to her dating life when she is an adult.
I donāt believe youāre intending to come across this way. But my current interpretation of this construct is āif my daughter is dating as an adult in a manner that I donāt see fit I will try to run the male out or force commitment as I see fitā.
That just doesnātā¦ sound good to meā¦
Maybe itāll work, maybe it wonātā¦ Time will tell. To note, Iām not trying to be negative here. For the most part I donāt think youāll have to worry about this. Chances are youāll raise your kids to have good standards when choosing a partner.
Does this guarantee success? Noā¦ but it mitigates the odds of failure
And youāre correct, not all families are dysfunctionalā¦ but in todayās day and age (the divorce rate in the US is very high) many are.
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No, nothing is inevitable. However sometimes bad things happen to good people
Itās something Iāve struggled to understand from a spiritual perspective. Subjective good and evil certainly existsā¦ if there were to be some form of higher power guiding usā¦ why do horrible things happen to people undeserved of such difficulties?
Why do good things happen to awful people?
For the most partā¦ if youāre on the right path youāll eventuate a positive outcome. There is data backing this
The what ifs are
But I donāt think I used any extreme analogies hereā¦ the examples Iāve given are quite reasonable qualms for me to have. I tend to think about various possible outcomes associated with my actions before I act. So I applied the same concept and started thinking about āhow could this endā.
I think this was something I brought up over a year agoā¦ after you told me to stop bringing the middle east/Islam up as a rebuttal I stopped. It is a very valid criticism because these paradigms are a super slippery slope. When men are given unrestricted power over women coupled with engrained, toxic cultural dogmas you wind up like Somalia.
āJust a little bit of subordination?ā When has that ever worked out for both men and women in MODERN society. I know you donāt identify as a modernistā¦ but society isnāt going back two thousand years any time soon (not meaning to sound offensive). What worked back then wonāt necessarily work now.
Youāve spoken as to how men can control women when they uniteā¦ today we have fairly effective equalisersā¦ gunsā¦
Regardless, this is off topic.
Well yesā¦ I know nothing about home-schooling aside fromā¦ the kids I knew who were home-schooled wound up badlyā¦ because these were typically autistic kids who were getting picked on, so the parents pulled them outā¦ and they wound up isolated because they had no friends.
Hence my natural process of thought was āhome schooling? Wonāt they be isolated?ā Because this is what I PERSONALLY saw to be associated with homeschooling whether it is representative of reality or not.
And more on extremesā¦ autistic people tend to be āblack and whiteā. Itās not something I do on purpose. If you make a statement, Iām not necessarily going to apply nuance. Iāll think of it as a blanket statement unless you specify otherwise.
So if you talk about female subordination, Iām going to think about female subordination in a forms unless you specify otherwise.
Itās not something I do on purpose, frequently I only realise Iāve pandered towards extremes AFTER Iāve made my post.