Do The People You Train With Know?

Pharma
21

[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:
WyldFlower wrote:
Because i think to deny that there is any moral argument surrounding steroids is grossly disingenious.

Thanks for reading.

Don’t confuse the sporting arena with the street. There is no moral issue with the rec. gym goer or BBer using steroids. It is a personal choice, that is all. Except where a person may compete against others in a drug tested event. Then there may be a moral issue in as much as “do I use PEDs when everyone around me is using them anyway?”

BBB[/quote]

Yeah, i’m coming from a sporting perspective, and the guys i trian with it almost has to be secret - even for those who don’t actually compete. I did say though that BBer’s are completely exclude because for un-tested events it is integral and AAS use is a highly developed artfrotm.

Though i think my statements still stands for the “weekend BBer” like most on these forums, who are uncomfortable talking about it. And like i said, in those cases it is like “plastic surgery” - a lot of people used to be ashamed of that to, especially 10-20 years ago. Like somebody said further up this thread, it’s like asking a woman “have you had a boob job?” - in that case it IS a question of “complexes” and not just legality.

Interesting debate nonetheless.

22

Actually i think it goes, bushidobadboy, bill roberts, mephistopheles and THEN brook… i think.

EDIT: Though Bill Roberts’ got propa PHD’s and that so maybe he should go first…mmmm…

23

99% of the people who know I use are the my internet buddies. Really the only other people I tell are friends who have known me forever and I hang out with all the time. I think it’s only fair that they know so when I make certain decisions or act in a certain way, they know there is a reason behind it. Usually I just make sure I remind them that becoming aggressive is much more likely when I’m using, so don’t do anything to intentionally piss me off.

Stuff like that.

24

[quote]WyldFlower wrote:
What is the issue of telling people?

Is it because most people will judge you negatively automatically and you don’t want to deal with that

or cos you feel mildly ashamed yourself cos you feel like it’s cheating?

I’m not being cheeky, i’m geniunely curious.[/quote]

people in general consider it cheating because they don’t understand, you still have to put in the hard work and eat right. I make no secret of it, that when I am ready. that I will enhance myself Its the icing on the cake

25

[quote]waylanderxx wrote:
99% of the people who know I use are the my internet buddies. Really the only other people I tell are friends who have known me forever and I hang out with all the time. I think it’s only fair that they know so when I make certain decisions or act in a certain way, they know there is a reason behind it. Usually I just make sure I remind them that becoming aggressive is much more likely when I’m using, so don’t do anything to intentionally piss me off.

Stuff like that.[/quote]

Agreed. It also helps them to not be like middle-schoolers with the peer pressure to drink when we are at parties. I’m sure you run into the same thing Way.

26

My training partner is my best friend, my wife. And yes she knows as I just finished my first Test E cycle, still on my PCT. She said last night in the shower that she is looking forward to my next cycle because we made love at LEAST twice day for six plus weeks. ( 41 years old and married for 16 years). She added though my balls shrank a little too much. So i’ll be adding some HCG this winter.

27

[quote]bennidiesel wrote:
I dont think anybody that has not done a serious cycle or 2 in their life should have much comment. I was always an anti-juice person, until a freid turned me on. What i thought i knew was bullshit, what i know now is more realistic. [/quote]

Somebody should rub Shadowzz4’s nose in your post.

Well said.

28

[quote]WyldFlower wrote:
Cortes wrote:
WyldFlower wrote:
What is the issue of telling people?

Is it because most people will judge you negatively automatically and you don’t want to deal with that

or cos you feel mildly ashamed yourself cos you feel like it’s cheating?

I’m not being cheeky, i’m geniunely curious.

For many people, they would be admitting to engaging in an illegal activity, one for which, if caught, your entire life can be destroyed (to the extent of losing your children, if CPS decides to take an interest).

This isn’t reason enough and the only thing you could come up with is that steroid users have a complex?

There are other reasons, too, but the only thing you stated makes me feel it’s not worth going into, your caveat aside.

No need to be so defensive, cortes. My questions were posed as they were because they are issues i’m dealing with right myself. Both the judgement of friends and colleagues who don’t understand the nature of these drugs, as well as my own feeling of inadequacy tha I may be compensating for something lacking in myself.

[/quote]

Not “defensive” at all. Certainly, when coming onto the STEROID forum that suggesting our use stems from shame or need for affirmation from others, you should not be surprised when your post draws some rather critical responses.

Come on. Would you wander into an NRA forum and ask,

"Why do you guys feel the need to use guns? It is from a mild feeling of inadequacy in life (or perhaps the bedroom)? Or is because you feel too weak to protect yourself or your family otherwise?

I’m not being cheeky. I’m genuinely curious."

What kind of response would you expect?

There was someone who was posting on this very site because his son had mentioned to a friend that his father does "steroids. The boy was actually referring to his father’s supplements, which the father had jokingly called “steroids.” The friend told this to his father, who then called CPS! CPS scheduled for the guy to have a drug test. Thing was, the guy HAD done a cycle about 9 months before, and it contained nandrolone, which happens to remain detectable for around 18 months. I never found out what happened to the guy, I hope everything was okay. But yes, this is a very real issue for a significant portion of users. Steriods are viewed by the law as on par with cocaine or heroin here, and users are assumed just as likely, perhaps moreso, to kill their entire family in a drug-induced frenzy. No really.

I don’t have time to reply to everything else you posted. I’ll just say this: One of the primary reasons many are hesitant (with good reason!) to discuss their use of AAS is precisely because of some of the ignorant comments that are popping up all over this thread.

No offense, Wyld, but your comments at the beginning demonstrate this ignorance, even if you yourself misspoke. Why would I every let on that I use when the general populace will suddenly discount every single other sacrifice I make and assume that my entire physique is due to drugs, when it is nothing of the sort? When they will then further assume that I take the drugs to bolster my weakened self-esteem, or to make up for some perceived deficiency I possess? Or that, whenever I am angry or irritated, it is “roid rage?” Or that my penis has shrunk because of the drugs (who the fuck would actually take them if this were a true side effect?).

Are you beginning to see what I mean? I’ll repeat the comment I made above:

Those who will understand will have already figured it out. Those who will not understand will never be able to, no matter how you justify it.

29

[quote]Cortes wrote:
bennidiesel wrote:
I dont think anybody that has not done a serious cycle or 2 in their life should have much comment. I was always an anti-juice person, until a freid turned me on. What i thought i knew was bullshit, what i know now is more realistic.

Somebody should rub Shadowzz4’s nose in your post.

Well said. [/quote]

I stopped reading Shadowz post after he said he was huge and ripped at 6’4 230

30

“Those who will understand will have already figured it out. Those who will not understand will never be able to, no matter how you justify it.”

Having recently joined the ranks, I concur. I told my sister and even though after some talk she understood, I guess it was an error after all. It goes to say, Cortes nailed it on the head

31

Well my reason for telling my friends at train was because they would notice anyway first of all, and secondly I wanted to try my best to control any negative reaction. Turns out the was none, if anything I think they were just curious to see how much my performance will change. My best mate already knows and has for a long time, he has also used AAS, in fact we ran our first cycle together (no homo).

32

[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:
WyldFlower wrote:
Because i think to deny that there is any moral argument surrounding steroids is grossly disingenious.

Thanks for reading.

Don’t confuse the sporting arena with the street. There is no moral issue with the rec. gym goer or BBer using steroids. It is a personal choice, that is all. Except where a person may compete against others in a drug tested event. Then there may be a moral issue in as much as “do I use PEDs when everyone around me is using them anyway?”

BBB[/quote]

This pretty much sums everything up and elaborates the whole two sides of the coin. Those on the streets/normal people have their own choice. There’s no moral issue when it comes to preference, as they’re doing it for themselves and not trying to please a fuckin judge and out do the competition.

On the other hand, if you’re up against 10 other guys and all of them juice, wouldn’t you feel like a wet chicken? If you’re juicin and they’re not, wouldn’t you feel like an asshole?

33

[quote]Cortes wrote:
WyldFlower wrote:
Cortes wrote:
WyldFlower wrote:
What is the issue of telling people?

Is it because most people will judge you negatively automatically and you don’t want to deal with that

or cos you feel mildly ashamed yourself cos you feel like it’s cheating?

I’m not being cheeky, i’m geniunely curious.

For many people, they would be admitting to engaging in an illegal activity, one for which, if caught, your entire life can be destroyed (to the extent of losing your children, if CPS decides to take an interest).

This isn’t reason enough and the only thing you could come up with is that steroid users have a complex?

There are other reasons, too, but the only thing you stated makes me feel it’s not worth going into, your caveat aside.

No need to be so defensive, cortes. My questions were posed as they were because they are issues i’m dealing with right myself. Both the judgement of friends and colleagues who don’t understand the nature of these drugs, as well as my own feeling of inadequacy tha I may be compensating for something lacking in myself.

Not “defensive” at all. Certainly, when coming onto the STEROID forum that suggesting our use stems from shame or need for affirmation from others, you should not be surprised when your post draws some rather critical responses.

Come on. Would you wander into an NRA forum and ask,

"Why do you guys feel the need to use guns? It is from a mild feeling of inadequacy in life (or perhaps the bedroom)? Or is because you feel too weak to protect yourself or your family otherwise?

I’m not being cheeky. I’m genuinely curious."

What kind of response would you expect?

[/quote]

With all due respect (and that’s not just another “caveat” for me to be a dick, i geniunely respect and admire your posts) but i didn’t just waltz into a steroid forum accusing guys of having a complex surrounding AAS. I was the 5th or 6th poster in a thread discussing why AAS users do or do not share their use with those around them. The correct analogy would be if i went on an NRA forum and participated in a thread where people were discussing whether they would share their membership of the organisation with other people. In that context, again, I would ask the same question in the same way. But then, i have a very frank nature, so please don’t take offence to that.

[quote]Cortes wrote:
There was someone who was posting on this very site because his son had mentioned to a friend that his father does "steroids. The boy was actually referring to his father’s supplements, which the father had jokingly called “steroids.” The friend told this to his father, who then called CPS! CPS scheduled for the guy to have a drug test. Thing was, the guy HAD done a cycle about 9 months before, and it contained nandrolone, which happens to remain detectable for around 18 months. I never found out what happened to the guy, I hope everything was okay. But yes, this is a very real issue for a significant portion of users. Steriods are viewed by the law as on par with cocaine or heroin here, and users are assumed just as likely, perhaps moreso, to kill their entire family in a drug-induced frenzy. No really.
[/quote]

Wow. I had no idea that it was that bad in the US. That’s fucked up. I understand now why you were miffed that i didn’t take the legal issues into consideration.

[quote]Cortes wrote:
I don’t have time to reply to everything else you posted. I’ll just say this: One of the primary reasons many are hesitant (with good reason!) to discuss their use of AAS is precisely because of some of the ignorant comments that are popping up all over this thread.

No offense, Wyld, but your comments at the beginning demonstrate this ignorance, even if you yourself misspoke. Why would I every let on that I use when the general populace will suddenly discount every single other sacrifice I make and assume that my entire physique is due to drugs, when it is nothing of the sort? When they will then further assume that I take the drugs to bolster my weakened self-esteem, or to make up for some perceived deficiency I possess? Or that, whenever I am angry or irritated, it is “roid rage?” Or that my penis has shrunk because of the drugs (who the fuck would actually take them if this were a true side effect?).

Are you beginning to see what I mean? I’ll repeat the comment I made above:

Those who will understand will have already figured it out. Those who will not understand will never be able to, no matter how you justify it.
[/quote]

I didn’t “misspeak” (i don’t believe in that phrase, by the way :slight_smile: ). I geniunely thought (until you explained the legal perspective) that the reason people are reluctant to share or be frank about their AAS use was to do with shame or social pressure. These are things i’m dealing with myself so i was geniunely curious on others perspective. People were alluding to the whole “social stigma” surrounding it by giving examples of plastic surgery/boob jobs or, as you say, some people would never understand no matter how you JUSTIFY it. I just put these ambigiuous terms matter of factly.

And as you’ve just explained, people’s ignorance and negative attitudes is a factor. I’ve had to deal with that just throught the fact that i’ve tried to talk about it. I suspect the prejudice will be far worse once i’m actually using.

And also, as several poster in this thread have said, that there are users out there who do feel guilty.

I don’t like the term “morals”, but i was tryig to use simple language to describe the coginitive dissonance between the values that we have as individuals and those around us have vis a vis steroids.

And i certainly don’t like that idea that people will discount all my achievements by saying “oh, he only managed to do that cos he’s juicing, anyone can do that if they’re juicing.” Yeah, riiiiiight.

Hope that made it clearer and you realise i wasnt being a dick

x

34

[quote]WyldFlower wrote:
Cortes wrote:
WyldFlower wrote:
Cortes wrote:
WyldFlower wrote:
What is the issue of telling people?

Is it because most people will judge you negatively automatically and you don’t want to deal with that

or cos you feel mildly ashamed yourself cos you feel like it’s cheating?

I’m not being cheeky, i’m geniunely curious.

For many people, they would be admitting to engaging in an illegal activity, one for which, if caught, your entire life can be destroyed (to the extent of losing your children, if CPS decides to take an interest).

This isn’t reason enough and the only thing you could come up with is that steroid users have a complex?

There are other reasons, too, but the only thing you stated makes me feel it’s not worth going into, your caveat aside.

No need to be so defensive, cortes. My questions were posed as they were because they are issues i’m dealing with right myself. Both the judgement of friends and colleagues who don’t understand the nature of these drugs, as well as my own feeling of inadequacy tha I may be compensating for something lacking in myself.

Not “defensive” at all. Certainly, when coming onto the STEROID forum that suggesting our use stems from shame or need for affirmation from others, you should not be surprised when your post draws some rather critical responses.

Come on. Would you wander into an NRA forum and ask,

"Why do you guys feel the need to use guns? It is from a mild feeling of inadequacy in life (or perhaps the bedroom)? Or is because you feel too weak to protect yourself or your family otherwise?

I’m not being cheeky. I’m genuinely curious."

What kind of response would you expect?

With all due respect (and that’s not just another “caveat” for me to be a dick, i geniunely respect and admire your posts) but i didn’t just waltz into a steroid forum accusing guys of having a complex surrounding AAS. I was the 5th or 6th poster in a thread discussing why AAS users do or do not share their use with those around them. The correct analogy would be if i went on an NRA forum and participated in a thread where people were discussing whether they would share their membership of the organisation with other people. In that context, again, I would ask the same question in the same way. But then, i have a very frank nature, so please don’t take offence to that.

Cortes wrote:
There was someone who was posting on this very site because his son had mentioned to a friend that his father does "steroids. The boy was actually referring to his father’s supplements, which the father had jokingly called “steroids.” The friend told this to his father, who then called CPS! CPS scheduled for the guy to have a drug test. Thing was, the guy HAD done a cycle about 9 months before, and it contained nandrolone, which happens to remain detectable for around 18 months. I never found out what happened to the guy, I hope everything was okay. But yes, this is a very real issue for a significant portion of users. Steriods are viewed by the law as on par with cocaine or heroin here, and users are assumed just as likely, perhaps moreso, to kill their entire family in a drug-induced frenzy. No really.

Wow. I had no idea that it was that bad in the US. That’s fucked up. I understand now why you were miffed that i didn’t take the legal issues into consideration.

Cortes wrote:
I don’t have time to reply to everything else you posted. I’ll just say this: One of the primary reasons many are hesitant (with good reason!) to discuss their use of AAS is precisely because of some of the ignorant comments that are popping up all over this thread.

No offense, Wyld, but your comments at the beginning demonstrate this ignorance, even if you yourself misspoke. Why would I every let on that I use when the general populace will suddenly discount every single other sacrifice I make and assume that my entire physique is due to drugs, when it is nothing of the sort? When they will then further assume that I take the drugs to bolster my weakened self-esteem, or to make up for some perceived deficiency I possess? Or that, whenever I am angry or irritated, it is “roid rage?” Or that my penis has shrunk because of the drugs (who the fuck would actually take them if this were a true side effect?).

Are you beginning to see what I mean? I’ll repeat the comment I made above:

Those who will understand will have already figured it out. Those who will not understand will never be able to, no matter how you justify it.

I didn’t “misspeak” (i don’t believe in that phrase, by the way :slight_smile: ). I geniunely thought (until you explained the legal perspective) that the reason people are reluctant to share or be frank about their AAS use was to do with shame or social pressure. These are things i’m dealing with myself so i was geniunely curious on others perspective. People were alluding to the whole “social stigma” surrounding it by giving examples of plastic surgery/boob jobs or, as you say, some people would never understand no matter how you JUSTIFY it. I just put these ambigiuous terms matter of factly.

And as you’ve just explained, people’s ignorance and negative attitudes is a factor. I’ve had to deal with that just throught the fact that i’ve tried to talk about it. I suspect the prejudice will be far worse once i’m actually using.

And also, as several poster in this thread have said, that there are users out there who do feel guilty.

I don’t like the term “morals”, but i was tryig to use simple language to describe the coginitive dissonance between the values that we have as individuals and those around us have vis a vis steroids.

And i certainly don’t like that idea that people will discount all my achievements by saying “oh, he only managed to do that cos he’s juicing, anyone can do that if they’re juicing.” Yeah, riiiiiight.

Hope that made it clearer and you realise i wasnt being a dick

x

[/quote]

lol at the “x” at the end.

might take more than a little kissy kiss to make up for for ur “cheating” comment lol

36

[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:
WyldFlower wrote:
Actually i think it goes, bushidobadboy, bill roberts, mephistopheles and THEN brook… i think.

EDIT: Though Bill Roberts’ got propa PHD’s and that so maybe he should go first…mmmm…

Bill Roberts always manages to school me, regarding AAS, so I would say that he is definitely my teacher on this forum. I only manage to teach him on biomechanical rehab :wink:

BBB[/quote]

I know this to be true. But your input is so practical and Bill Roberts has me reaching for PubMed adding to the pile of things i think i should read and all these science terms i don’t understand that i then begin researching which paralyses through analyses and then i’m all discombobulated and end up feeling like in science nobody knows anythign about anythign as everythign we thought to be true is not true and it hurts my head.

:frowning:

37

BBB seems to have an honest persons outlook on AAS. I respect that. He probably has a better body than 99% percent of the population anyway, AAS just accentuates it more. Im not saying a fat lard starts using and turns into Adonis, but within the ranks of seasoned gym-goers, it is generally known what can be achieved through hard work, determination, proper diet etc… and what is beyond that realm.

38

To be honest, looking back, yeah, I guess I was a little defensive in my original response to your post. And it is just because of all of the misconceptions, jealous rumor-mongering and outright lying that goes on regarding our thing that a couple of key words you used in your post had my troll-radar blaring like an air-raid siren.

Now that you have lucidly explained yourself in your following two posts, I can see that you were asking an honest question, and I get you. No worries.

Anyway, I’m sure that there are some who won’t let out their “secret” because of shame or fear of rejection or what-not, but I think the main reason many of us have learned to keep our mouths shut has more to do with the ignorance and stupidity of other people and the unfortunate ramifications it can have on our own lives.

In my opinion, it’s best to treat your steroid use the same way you treat your goals (and the two are intricately related, aren’t they?). You shouldn’t tell most people your goals, either, because most people don’t have them, and they are jealous of those of us who do, and at best, they won’t believe or understand your reasoning. At worst, they will take every opportunity to shit all over those goals and, in some cases, blatantly work to sabotage them.

39

Yeah, this is something that i’m learning too. And it is EXACTLY like, as you say, the way we shouldn’t share our goals with other people either. Cos they wont understand.

E.G. - Since i got hardcore into training - the number of people/friends who’ve said: “Why? Why are you doing this? Why can’t you be happy with the way you are? Don’t you like yourself?” LOL. That pisses me off. I guess AAS use is part of the same thing - why justify yourself to people who would NEVER understand.

Glad we reached equanimity :slight_smile:

Peace

x

40

my opinion of this is…if its early in your usage history and you are not gaining muscle at a rate that makes it ridiculously obvious…you are using crap gear or you are not training very smart.

Now that does not necessarily mean you should tell everyone…but anyone with any sense whatsoever will know. I can pull off the natural thing now that i am on HRt and only weigh 260…but when i was at full bore and hanging around 300lbs, you can say whatever you wnat and everyone that has sense knows you are juiced to the gills.

Same thing if you go from 180 to 220 in 12 weeks…thats not creatine buddy. Let the ignorant people be ignorant…everyone else won’t have to be told, they will know.