Just a quick observation from Zeb’s posts on this thread and the other gay thread. He’s really got a hard on for homosexuals… no pun intended.
[quote]vroom wrote:
It’s like saying that we haven’t disproved a unicorn existing, therefore it may exist. This is what is called “intellectual masturbation”.
I don’t know about you, but comparing gay people to unicorns is pretty extreme. There is no question that gay people and homosexuality exist. The fact you don’t like where research is leading us doesn’t mean that you get to claim position X until position Y is proven.[/quote]
Ha. I actually stated that I agreed with you, I just wanted to point out the fallacy in the argument. I wasn’t comparing unicorns to gays 
I was comparing the existence of a gay gene to unicorns. We haven’t proved or disproved the existence of either, therefore they may either exist or not, but we can’t draw any conclusions from the fact that we don’t know yet. I actually don’t think I took a position in writing (but for info purposes I think a gay gene is probably true) but my point was we can’t take a position until one way is proven or disproven.
Not unreasonable at all. No one should be declaring a position on this issue until the facts are in. But my question was that even if we proved a gay gene would it change anything?
[quote]Jersey5150 wrote:
Lots of folks seem to think there is no proof that being gay is a choice.
I dont mean this to be insulting but as a legitimate question what evidence do we have that God exists?
Faith I understand, you believe without proof, but is there any evidence that christians go on?
[/quote]
oof. I didn’t want to go here considering the previous replies, that’s why I went with the unicorn argument. But maybe you’ll hold up ok
So, is the need to believe in a religion choice or genetically determined? Let’s fire up the engines of science! 
[quote]goldin wrote:
Jersey5150 wrote:
Lots of folks seem to think there is no proof that being gay is a choice.
I dont mean this to be insulting but as a legitimate question what evidence do we have that God exists?
Faith I understand, you believe without proof, but is there any evidence that christians go on?
oof. I didn’t want to go here considering the previous replies, that’s why I went with the unicorn argument. But maybe you’ll hold up ok :)[/quote]
Me too! I hope it doesnt come off as disrespectfull, not knowing many christians well I dont get the opportunity to hear what they have to say about there beleifs.
Charles Staley and Disc Hoss have it right. Hate the sin, but love the sinner.
[quote]jerinevans wrote:
Charles Staley and Disc Hoss have it right. Hate the sin, but love the sinner.[/quote]
Thanks for clearing that up for us. In what ways have you “loved the sinner” lately?
[quote]Jersey5150 wrote:
I dont mean this to be insulting but as a legitimate question what evidence do we have that God exists?
[/quote]
Seeing Mary in a grilled cheese sandwich!!!
[quote]Elkhntr1 wrote:
Just a quick observation from Zeb’s posts on this thread and the other gay thread. He’s really got a hard on for homosexuals… no pun intended.[/quote]
It’s a shame if you might actually believe that statement!
As far as the “choice vs genetics” issue goes, just apply some common sense: If gays are gay by choice, straights would ALSO be straight by choice, but are they?
Any straight person would tell you that they’re straight by birth (not by choice), and therefore, I can only assume that gays would tell you that they’re that way by birth as well.
But maybe we can take a poll here: regardless of your sexual orientation, is anyone here straight or gay by CHOICE? Anyone? In other words, did you actually decide your orientation? Or are you just they way you are from birth?
It’d be interesting to see.
[quote]ZEB wrote:
Elkhntr1 wrote:
Just a quick observation from Zeb’s posts on this thread and the other gay thread. He’s really got a hard on for homosexuals… no pun intended.
It’s a shame if you might actually believe that statement!
[/quote]
Just seeing if the Zebster would bite… you did.
Oh my, would that qualify as “loving the sinner”?
[quote]PGA200X wrote:
Jersey5150 wrote:
I dont mean this to be insulting but as a legitimate question what evidence do we have that God exists?
Seeing Mary in a grilled cheese sandwich!!![/quote]
Haaaaa!
Clever, clever indeed.
[quote]vroom wrote:
So, is the need to believe in a religion choice or genetically determined? Let’s fire up the engines of science! :p[/quote]
I know you probably meant this as a joke, but it’s actually being researched… run a google search for “the god gene” and you’ll get some hits. It’s mainly speculative at just a little bit of research right now, but they’re still at it.
And I’m sure no one’s trying to downplay the role of environment in this scenario either, but rather show some evidence of how it might have all got started.
-Dan
[quote]CharlesStaley wrote:
As far as the “choice vs genetics” issue goes, just apply some common sense: If gays are gay by choice, straights would ALSO be straight by choice, but are they?
Any straight person would tell you that they’re straight by birth (not by choice), and therefore, I can only assume that gays would tell you that they’re that way by birth as well.
But maybe we can take a poll here: regardless of your sexual orientation, is anyone here straight or gay by CHOICE? Anyone? In other words, did you actually decide your orientation? Or are you just they way you are from birth?
It’d be interesting to see.
[/quote]
I’m straight, had no decision or choice in the matter, that’s just the way I was born…
However, if Jared from Subway came a knockin I might have to re-assess things. That is one sultry hunk o’ man lol…
[quote]CharlesStaley wrote:
As far as the “choice vs genetics” issue goes, just apply some common sense: If gays are gay by choice, straights would ALSO be straight by choice, but are they?
Any straight person would tell you that they’re straight by birth (not by choice), and therefore, I can only assume that gays would tell you that they’re that way by birth as well.
But maybe we can take a poll here: regardless of your sexual orientation, is anyone here straight or gay by CHOICE? Anyone? In other words, did you actually decide your orientation? Or are you just they way you are from birth?
It’d be interesting to see.
[/quote]
Straight…and born that way. I couldnt choose to have sex with a man under any circumstances, not because I think its immoral but because what needs to go on physically to have sex would not happen for me with a man.
I also dont feel I have a choice in the women I am attracted to, some I find attractive and some I dont and I cant change that.
[quote]Disc Hoss wrote:
God hates sin of every type. That is taught/evident from Scripture. CS is correct as the Bible condemns all sin, which of course includes homosexuality. Now the key is this. Hatred for a wrong is not to be carried to the end of hatred for the person. You’ve all probably heard the axiom “hate the sin, love the sinner.” That is the whole thing. Now loving is not the same as condoning either. That a distinction that should be made.
I am a Christian. Homosexuality is a choice and a sin. I have two friends who are gay. I tell them the truth and I tell them in a kind concerned manner. Because I care about them. BUT I do not condone what they do, just as I have friends who are dishonest in business dealings. I tell them, in the love and truth of Christ, that there will be consequences of all that we do both in this life and that to come. I don’t brow beat them. I offer it to them. This should not be confused with tolerance in the PC world. They will answer to Christ, not me. My job is to teach the truth in love. End job. Jesus hung out with liars, losers, prostitutes, and other undesirables. BUT he loved them all too much to leave them as they were…which is broken. He loves people, and THAT is precisely why He came. To set people free from the spiritual/psychological bondage of a sin nature.
We all have that as a consequence of the fall of man. It’s not the individual sins so much as it is the sin nature. Sins are simply the fruit of the fallen spiritual nature. Go to the source for repair. That is why religions of works, deeds, and higher knowledge are missing the core issue. It’s not what you are doing that’s the problem, it’s what is at your core as a human being. Christ, by way of divine grace, heals the true core issue. A man can tamper with hardware (the physical) or softwar (the mind) but his issue is beyond his reach. It is with the nature/essence. This would equate as the programmer in the above example.
The will/nature/essence seeks its own end to some degree. It then uses the faculties of mind and body to carry out it’s desires. There in is the problem, and only God can fix it.
I’m sorry to make a “sermon” of this but I get very tired of every armchair expert in the world talking about broad religious terms and making sweeping statements about that which they are truly ignorant of.
We all dislike it when Katie Couric condems “fats” or “carbs” because she makes no intelligent/informed distinctions. But we don’t want to apply that same critical analysis to religion and especially Christianity.
I’ll make an offer and I hope it’s not heckled. I am a Christian. If you have a question, any question, then ask me.
There you go. Free game. Flame the Bible thumper.
I wont give you an opinion, I’ll give you correlating (and complete) scripture for you to investigate.
If I’d like to say one thing, it’s this:
Don’t miss Christ just because of the “Christians”. He never said there was any other way other than Himself and the Gospel. Pure, unadulterated and genuine.
Christ saves and, sadly, fallen human beings who follow him and more sadly those who just claim it but have NO REAL relationship, will disappoint you. Now that you know it, don’t let that stop you. Educate yourself… you’ll gain a lot more than some pipes and abs.
Much more.
Best,
DH
[/quote]
Finally! A sensible post wrt religion. I couldn’t have said it better.
Thanks, DH!
Mica
[quote]CharlesStaley wrote:
As far as the “choice vs genetics” issue goes, just apply some common sense: If gays are gay by choice, straights would ALSO be straight by choice, but are they?
Any straight person would tell you that they’re straight by birth (not by choice), and therefore, I can only assume that gays would tell you that they’re that way by birth as well.
But maybe we can take a poll here: regardless of your sexual orientation, is anyone here straight or gay by CHOICE? Anyone? In other words, did you actually decide your orientation? Or are you just they way you are from birth?
It’d be interesting to see.
[/quote]
I’d say by birth AND choice. I likes the women - I happen to think that female breasts and butts are attractive. I don’t think that men are attractive, though like most here I can appreciate a well-built male physique without any sexual association. I’ve liked women from the beginning, but now that I am past the hormonal rampage of puberty, I continue to choose women over men because I find women much more attractive for a great many reasons.
-Dan
[quote]buffalokilla wrote:
but now that I am past the hormonal rampage of puberty, I continue to choose women over men because I find women much more attractive for a great many reasons.
-Dan[/quote]
Like tits, legs and ass?
[quote]buffalokilla wrote:
CharlesStaley wrote:
As far as the “choice vs genetics” issue goes, just apply some common sense: If gays are gay by choice, straights would ALSO be straight by choice, but are they?
Any straight person would tell you that they’re straight by birth (not by choice), and therefore, I can only assume that gays would tell you that they’re that way by birth as well.
But maybe we can take a poll here: regardless of your sexual orientation, is anyone here straight or gay by CHOICE? Anyone? In other words, did you actually decide your orientation? Or are you just they way you are from birth?
It’d be interesting to see.
I’d say by birth AND choice. I likes the women - I happen to think that female breasts and butts are attractive. I don’t think that men are attractive, though like most here I can appreciate a well-built male physique without any sexual association. I’ve liked women from the beginning, but now that I am past the hormonal rampage of puberty, I continue to choose women over men because I find women much more attractive for a great many reasons.
-Dan[/quote]
So if you wanted to you could have sex with a man?
I agree that you can appreciate when a man is good looking and has a great physique without any sexual connotation.
Its funny some dudes try to deny that they notice but you tell me if their girlfried/wife said they where going to diner with her old friend Woody Alen they wouldnt worry, if it was with their old friend,Bradd Pitt however I am sure they would feel slightly different about their lady being alone with the guy.
At least I would.