Disturbing Picture

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
41

Incidents like this one raise the issue of one person’s freedom to speak vs. my freedom not to hear it. Do I have a right to go to a funeral of friend that died as a result of AIDS and not be confronted with this? More generally, do I have a right to go outside and not be confronted with this garbage day after day? If you think this is a moot point, go to their websit and looking at their list of upcoming pickets.

Having thought about this myself, I’ve fallen on the side of allowing them to have their say. I’d be interested to hear the thoughts of the other forum contributros on this point.

Liam

42

Two things…

  1. I feel sorry for that kid. His stupid parents probably are forcing him to do it and he will grow up to be just like them thats just a shame. That Sign should read my parents are proof that god hates america… wth. (sorry I have nothing against the US. but I hate to see kids being exploited in ANY way!

  2. F*ck the parents, and hell that whole group for that matter!

my 2cents…

43

[quote]loconnor29 wrote:
Incidents like this one raise the issue of one person’s freedom to speak vs. my freedom not to hear it. Do I have a right to go to a funeral of friend that died as a result of AIDS and not be confronted with this? More generally, do I have a right to go outside and not be confronted with this garbage day after day? If you think this is a moot point, go to their websit and looking at their list of upcoming pickets.

Having thought about this myself, I’ve fallen on the side of allowing them to have their say. I’d be interested to hear the thoughts of the other forum contributros on this point.

Liam[/quote]

Speech can be subject to “time, place, and manner” restrictions. Your point about a funeral for someone with AIDS can illustrate this. If the government passed a law, for example, that prohibited protests at cemetaries, that would probably be a time place and manner restriction because the law would be limited to a particular place (a cemetary) that has not historically been considered a place for public debate and open discussion.

44

[quote]loconnor29 wrote:
Incidents like this one raise the issue of one person’s freedom to speak vs. my freedom not to hear it. Do I have a right to go to a funeral of friend that died as a result of AIDS and not be confronted with this?

Respectfully snipped…
Liam[/quote]

I think that these people should have a right to say what they want. I just believe that I should have the right to punch them in the face for it.

45

  1. If I see these fuckers I’m pissing in a SuperSoaker and going to work on them.

  2. Does God even hate the beauty of hot, lesbian love?

46

Even with myself being a Christian and a homophobe (something I am working on) I still find this to be absolutely disgusting. Gays should be allowed to worship in all churches, not that their lifestyle should be embraced, but they are sinners and need help just like the rest of us. Churches should be reaching out to them and teaching them. I really wonder why people like this even consider themselves Christians.

47

Bisexuality may be a choice, but it seems that homosexuality isn’t. Ask a gay person. There was a study that found something along the lines of women related to a gay man had more children, on average, with the implication that the women were more attracted to men. So this gene manifested itself in men and bada bing…

48

This site was recently brought to my attention as well when Rev. Phelps and his thugs thought it would be a good idea to protest the funeral of a soldier that I served with in Iraq.

The soldier died from an IED blast. Since this “Reverend” Phelps and his followers beloeve that America and a group of gays used and IED on their building in Topeka, they enjoy it when our soldiers die from an IED.

These people are sick and celebrate the death of an American who was just doing his job. They believe it is God’s way of getting back at America, as every IED was planted by God himself. They are a bunch of whack-jobs that go to funerals of fallen soldiers and try to instigate fights, then sue and fund their cause. There are lots of lawyers among their ranks.

They are a sickening lot and thirst for media attention. They are lucky that enough of the good people from Southern Illinois got the word that they want to be attacked. Otherwise, it would have been a bloodbath when they showed up at the funeral in Southern Illinois.

Bunch of pussies if you ask me.

49

[quote]Disc Hoss wrote:
God hates sin of every type. That is taught/evident from Scripture. CS is correct as the Bible condemns all sin, which of course includes homosexuality. Now the key is this. Hatred for a wrong is not to be carried to the end of hatred for the person. You’ve all probably heard the axiom “hate the sin, love the sinner.” That is the whole thing. Now loving is not the same as condoning either. That a distinction that should be made.

I am a Christian. Homosexuality is a choice and a sin. I have two friends who are gay. I tell them the truth and I tell them in a kind concerned manner. Because I care about them. BUT I do not condone what they do, just as I have friends who are dishonest in business dealings. I tell them, in the love and truth of Christ, that there will be consequences of all that we do both in this life and that to come. I don’t brow beat them. I offer it to them. This should not be confused with tolerance in the PC world. They will answer to Christ, not me. My job is to teach the truth in love. End job. Jesus hung out with liars, losers, prostitutes, and other undesirables. BUT he loved them all too much to leave them as they were…which is broken. He loves people, and THAT is precisely why He came. To set people free from the spiritual/psychological bondage of a sin nature.

We all have that as a consequence of the fall of man. It’s not the individual sins so much as it is the sin nature. Sins are simply the fruit of the fallen spiritual nature. Go to the source for repair. That is why religions of works, deeds, and higher knowledge are missing the core issue. It’s not what you are doing that’s the problem, it’s what is at your core as a human being. Christ, by way of divine grace, heals the true core issue. A man can tamper with hardware (the physical) or softwar (the mind) but his issue is beyond his reach. It is with the nature/essence. This would equate as the programmer in the above example.

The will/nature/essence seeks its own end to some degree. It then uses the faculties of mind and body to carry out it’s desires. There in is the problem, and only God can fix it.

I’m sorry to make a “sermon” of this but I get very tired of every armchair expert in the world talking about broad religious terms and making sweeping statements about that which they are truly ignorant of.

We all dislike it when Katie Couric condems “fats” or “carbs” because she makes no intelligent/informed distinctions. But we don’t want to apply that same critical analysis to religion and especially Christianity.

I’ll make an offer and I hope it’s not heckled. I am a Christian. If you have a question, any question, then ask me.

There you go. Free game. Flame the Bible thumper.

I wont give you an opinion, I’ll give you correlating (and complete) scripture for you to investigate.

If I’d like to say one thing, it’s this:

Don’t miss Christ just because of the “Christians”. He never said there was any other way other than Himself and the Gospel. Pure, unadulterated and genuine.

Christ saves and, sadly, fallen human beings who follow him and more sadly those who just claim it but have NO REAL relationship, will disappoint you. Now that you know it, don’t let that stop you. Educate yourself… you’ll gain a lot more than some pipes and abs.

Much more.

Best,
DH

[/quote]

Beautifully put. Your thoughtful post was the best response that I’ve seen to expresses the true Christian position on this subject.

50

[quote]Beauzo wrote:
These people who consider themselves Christians are the farthest thing from it. Even if the old testament condemns homosexuals, if you are a christian, the new testament overshadows all of the old teachings. The new testament tells us not to judge others, but to love others, even our enemies. Let God be the judge of morality.[/quote]

This is not correct. The New Testament in no way differs from the Old in its view of homosexuality.

That being said, homosexuals are sinners…just like the rest of us. I can’t think why anyone would protest homosexual church attendance.

51

Yes, just to comment further on what DH wrote: say you had a friend who went on a diet. You see him frequently eating cookies and drinking beer, and you also see him gaining weight. You obviously would not categorize his diet as an unsuccessful one, because you knew he didn’t adhere to it.

In the same way, all Christians stray from the teachings of Scripture; see it for what it is, fallen people, not a false religion. Don’t disregard it without proper investigation, it is a matter important far beyond PWO nutrition.

52

This is a very interesting post.

[quote]buffalokilla wrote:

…The Hebrew/Greek/Aramaic words for gay/homosexuality DO NOT appear. The situation in Sodom/Gem. are often cited, but that could easily be attributed to the fact that the sexual acts were forced rather than consentual. Another passage often cited to me says that “Man shall not lie with another man as he does with a woman” or whatever the translator says, but the actual Hebrew says “Thou shall not couch with a priest as thou would with a woman.” Not quite the same message.

It is very confusing to me where any of the Christian churches got this idea - where does it come from in your denomination? Best I can figure is it started in the Catholic church as an attack on Roman culture in a political move.
-Dan[/quote]

53

[quote]buffalokilla wrote:

I do have to ask one thing before looking at the rest of your points - where in the Divinely inspired Scripture does God condemn homosexuality? I don’t mean in the many-times removed bastardizations that are now called the Bible, but in the original scripture? The Hebrew/Greek/Aramaic words for gay/homosexuality DO NOT appear. The situation in Sodom/Gem. are often cited, but that could easily be attributed to the fact that the sexual acts were forced rather than consentual. Another passage often cited to me says that “Man shall not lie with another man as he does with a woman” or whatever the translator says, but the actual Hebrew says “Thou shall not couch with a priest as thou would with a woman.” Not quite the same message.

It is very confusing to me where any of the Christian churches got this idea - where does it come from in your denomination? Best I can figure is it started in the Catholic church as an attack on Roman culture in a political move.

-Dan[/quote]

Well, now that you want to get all scholastic on us:

Leviticus 18:22 says “Thou shalt not lie with mankind as with womankind: it is abomination.” (KJV)

“Lie” is the Hebrew word 7901: “shakab” in the Strong’s Concordance which means to lie down for sexual connection.

“Mankind” is the Hebrew word 2145: “zakar” which means male or man.

And how about the “unseemly act” described in Romans 1:27?

Getting back to TC’s point, these people are gravely mistaken if they think they are actually promoting the message of Christianity. And as for using children to walk around with these detestable signs, here is their reward:

Mark 9:42: “And whoseover shall offend (which means “trip up” or “lead astray”) one of these little ones that believe in me, it is better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he were cast into the sea.”

Disk Hoss: excellent posts.

A fellow Christian iron warrior

54

I live outside of Topeka, Kansas where Fred Phelps and his clan march up and down the streets almost daily with those kind of signs. The funny thing is, is that they have pretty much become a laughing stock around here. They are out and about so often that people just pretty much ignore them. They are sort of like pathetic clowns.

Jake

55

These are a bunch of religious nuts that make all Christians look bad.

Though lets not try to make a connection to all Christians, or religion. When I became an atheist I made sure I didn’t fall into the that trap, otherwise I would end up being no different then the clowns who made and carried those signs.

56

As far as the whole homosexuality being a choice thing, I think there is a lot of misunderstanding. I can only comment on the Catholic view though. Attraction in itself is morally neutral. That means someone may be born 100% attracted to someone of the same sex and there is no sin in that. How you ACT on that attraction is a different story. If you live your life a certain way, it may or may not be sinful. The problem lies in the homosexual acts, not just simply the attraction. There is no reason to say someone is sinning for simply feeling something that they can’t help they feel. A person can only sin if they choose to. If you don’t have any control over something, you can’t sin. Therefore, a “gay” person who lives a chaste life comments no sin just for simply being attracted to the same sex. You can argue with that saying it’s harsh or what not, but the problem isn’t whether someone was born a certain way or not. It’s how they choose to act on their desires. I never chose to be attracted to women as a man, but that doesn’t mean I can’t control what I do based on that attraction.

As far as these people, I think they are as far from Christian as you can get. Gays should be respected like others. That doesn’t mean we say their actions are ok, we just don’t judge the heart. You can judge all day long as to whether a particular action is wrong or right, we as Christians though are called to not judge the heart or someone’s intentions. I should note there is a difference between promoting the homosexual LIFESTYLE which we shouldn’t do as Christians and simply respecting gays which we should do.

Lastly, if homosexuality is purely genetic, that shouldn’t change anything. I personally believe it can be at least strongly linked to genes. This doesn’t mean God is tempting them or forcing them to sin though. The attraction is once again a neutral thing. Where we fall short as humans is by how we choose to act out upon our attractions. For example, an alcholic who is attracted to drinking doesn’t do anything wrong if they can control their problem. In fact, it would be admired if they can control themselves and show restraint. Yet, we wouldn’t blame them for simply being attracted to the thought of drinking which they probably couldn’t control.

57

Homosexuality can not be genetic since they can’t reproduce among them, therefore can’t pass the “gay gene” and I know that some “closet” homosexuals have husbands/wives and children, but that is a very small percentage of the homosexual population, let’s take the roman empire where homosexuality was rampant about 2000 years ago, in 2000 years the gay gene would have complete been erradicated from the human gene pool.

58

[quote]gdm wrote:
buffalokilla wrote:

I do have to ask one thing before looking at the rest of your points - where in the Divinely inspired Scripture does God condemn homosexuality? I don’t mean in the many-times removed bastardizations that are now called the Bible, but in the original scripture? The Hebrew/Greek/Aramaic words for gay/homosexuality DO NOT appear. The situation in Sodom/Gem. are often cited, but that could easily be attributed to the fact that the sexual acts were forced rather than consentual. Another passage often cited to me says that “Man shall not lie with another man as he does with a woman” or whatever the translator says, but the actual Hebrew says “Thou shall not couch with a priest as thou would with a woman.” Not quite the same message.

It is very confusing to me where any of the Christian churches got this idea - where does it come from in your denomination? Best I can figure is it started in the Catholic church as an attack on Roman culture in a political move.

-Dan

Well, now that you want to get all scholastic on us:

Leviticus 18:22 says “Thou shalt not lie with mankind as with womankind: it is abomination.” (KJV)
[/quote]
Gays don’t sleep with women.

How about it? Homosexuality is not an “act”, or “technique”, or “anal”.

[quote]

Getting back to TC’s point, these people are gravely mistaken if they think they are actually promoting the message of Christianity. And as for using children to walk around with these detestable signs, here is their reward:

Mark 9:42: “And whoseover shall offend (which means “trip up” or “lead astray”) one of these little ones that believe in me, it is better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he were cast into the sea.”

Disk Hoss: excellent posts.

A fellow Christian iron warrior [/quote]
For a christian I didn’t hear love overflowing for your gay neighbors.

59

I just wanted to say thank you in advance for another discussion about religion.

Let’s keep this bumped onto the front page at all times.

“An Inuit hunter asked the local missionary priest: “If I did not know about God and sin, would I go to hell?” “No,” said the priest, “not if you did not know.” “Then why,” asked the Inuit earnestly, “did you tell me?” ~Annie Dillard, Pilgrim at Tinker Creek”

JeffR

60

Stupid parents making their children to this is BAD! They should be ashamed of themselves!