By the way:
The thing about Digital Cameras and Cams is that price points can be broken down within roughly 4 categories (this is “unofficial”, and the way I look at it):
Low-end Consumer
High-end Consumer (“Pre-Pro”)
Pro
High-end Pro
That sort of makes it easier, because you can determine what meets your needs within certain price ranges. Within a certain category, many of the Cameras and Cams are comparable, with certain “stars” that stick out.
Mufasa
My price point is High-End Consumer (ROUGHLY the $800 to $1,200 range).
Mufasa
Hi mate,
Just thought I’d throw my tuppence worth in here.
I’m a TV producer and director and so over the years have pretty much tried every format from super 8mm film to the same super swish HDCAM stuff they shot the last Star Wars movies on.
I’m not sure about prices in the US but in terms of best bang-for-buck, I would definitely recommened buying a mini-DV camera of some description.
For my own purposes, obviously the footage is often very valuable (like a recent shoot in Hong Kong for example) and consumer versions of solid-state devices like memory cards are just not robust enough to ensure the integrity of data. Likewise hard drives fail and are very sensitive.
The benefits of mini-DV are that it is now (although low-level) a pro industry standard that has been tested and tested and whilst you can still transfer all your material to your hard drive - you will always have that physical tape there handy for when you spill beer on your PC and blow it up. Which yes, I have done…
Another plus is that with the advent of HDV and DVCPROHD, the consumer high-def formats, quality mini-DV cameras have shot down in price.
Hence that would be my choice. Also, if at all poss and if it’s only like $100 difference of so, try to go for a 3CCD-equipped camera. The difference in image quality is soo worth it.
I’m sure we don’t have the same demands for our cameras but I just thought I’d pass on my thoughts.
One long-serving and robust semi-pro Mini-DV camera (I’ve used it around the world) is the Sony PD150 and its successor, the PD170. Fairly sure you can pick these up quite cheap now. Don’t quite know if they’re in your stated range but maybe they’re not far off now. A long cry from the three thousand quid they cost when they first came out!!!
The old adage that Canon make the best cameras but Sony (courtesy of Carl Zeiss) have the best lenses still holds true somewhat, but I’m sure plenty of other makers have quality offerings out there these day.
If I can be any help let me know…
[quote]1-packlondoner wrote:
Hi mate,
One long-serving and robust semi-pro Mini-DV camera (I’ve used it around the world) is the Sony PD150 and its successor, the PD170. Fairly sure you can pick these up quite cheap now.[/quote]
The Sony is rather renowned among independent filmmakers now because of its use by Lars von Trier and others. It has been used on many low budget shoots. You may find one on e-bay or a larger camera store.
For triple chip stuff, the Panasonic GS250 got pretty good reviews and it has a nice balance of features like a good focus ring that other cameras at the price level lack.
Check out the forums at camcorderinfo.com.
You guys are the BEST!
I’m getting a much better feel for things now.
Question about Data Transfer:
How is the information transfered from the miniDV to your computer? (I’ll be going into a local dealer to get an actual “look and feel” of a few Camcorders, but I want to be as prepared as possible).
Again; thanks, guys!
Mufasa
wenzi:
That is a GREAT site you recommeded; I was on it all weekend!
Mufasa
1-pack:
Great camera.
Definitely in the “Pro” range as far as price:
Mufasa
[quote]Mufasa wrote:
1-pack:
Great camera.
Definitely in the “Pro” range as far as price:
Mufasa[/quote]
Well maybe lookout for a reconditioned PD150? Well worth it off Ebay or sommink.
[quote]Question about Data Transfer:
How is the information transfered from the miniDV to your computer? [/quote]
You connect with either Firewire (IEEE 1394) or USB2.0. If you have a good editing program such as Premiere then it will also control the camera (most are supported) as well. You can then just dump in all the material you want or go through, select material then let the computer control the camera to get it all while you take a break.
It’s like hooking up a digital camera, really.
Not sure about the lower programs like Microsoft Movie but it’s pretty easy.
Beats the hell out of editing on an old 3/4" video system controlled by a 286.
Good luck in the stores.
[quote]1-packlondoner wrote:
[/quote]
Listen to packlondoner he knows his stuff.
Especially, the mini-DV tape … see, once you put it on your computer, then burn a dvd, you put the little mini-DV cassette in the closet and keep it forever as a backup. They are very cheap and it is worth doing for anything important, like family videos or when shooting some kind of movie etc… all those hard drive systems etc… are not so good for that purpose.
And the 3CCD cameras are good
and your price range is pretty good too so you should get a nice camera
have fun!
Again, thanks a lot, guys!
Okay…do you have a starting recommendation (s) for a High-End Consumer miniDV Camcorder?
You guys have REALLY help me understand all this and to narrow the field. Additional specific recommendations help me do some on-line comparisons before I actually go into a store.
Thanks!
Mufasa
Sorry, no recommendations on specific cameras but, perhaps, a method on finding the right camera.
Go in, check them out, right down the details, come back, check out stuff on the net thoroughly. Wait. Think again. Check again. I changed my mind a few times before buying my Panasonic, sorting through all the pros and cons.
Then buy.
Hey, guys:
I’ve got two for you to “tear apart”.
When you have time to look at them on the net, give me your personal opinion.
(Note: these are both “High-End Consumer”):
MiniDV
Panasonic PV-GS300
Hard Drive
Sony DCR-SR100
Thanks!
Mufasa
[quote]Mufasa wrote:
Hey, guys:
I’ve got two for you to “tear apart”.
When you have time to look at them on the net, give me your personal opinion.
(Note: these are both “High-End Consumer”):
MiniDV
Panasonic PV-GS300
Hard Drive
Sony DCR-SR100
Thanks!
Mufasa
[/quote]
Had a quick look but that Panasonic has no manual focus ring which is a personal no-no for me. Autofocus is bad, mmmkay…
Although the GS500 looks quite good. Larger CCDs and manual focus ring. Good picture quality.
Maybe a little more weight to it on the whole, which as posted before is always a good thing.
Thanks, I-pack.
I have been compiling a list of things to study more, and to get ideas on how important they are from you guys; and it’s been very helful.
The first was the 3CCD’s (Definitely a must).
I’ll add the manual focus ring to that also.
(Could it be that I may need to start looking more in the “Pro” range?)
Thanks!
Mufasa
[quote]Mufasa wrote:
Thanks, I-pack.
I have been compiling a list of things to study more, and to get ideas on how important they are from you guys; and it’s been very helful.
The first was the 3CCD’s (Definitely a must).
I’ll add the manual focus ring to that also.
(Could it be that I may need to start looking more in the “Pro” range?)
Thanks!
Mufasa[/quote]
I would add to that list a lot of things which SHOULD be standard but for cost/space saving tend to go out of the window.
Basically if you really want the most from a camera you want manual override of everything - exposure, white balance, shutter speeds, focus etc…
IMO Everything else is a gimmink - everything else you could ever want to do to your image you can do at the editing stage and far better than you could pressing a tiny button on the side of a camcorder. Plus if you use computers to edit, then there is always an UNDO feature 
I would always point you to the pro cameras as that’s more where I’m coming from but there genuinely seem to be some great finds in the upper echelons of the pro-sumer range.
Yes, the gs300 got rid of the focus ring in its upgrade from the 250.Did you go to a camera shop or an electronics shop? Don’t forget the needs of a pro and your needs are probably very different things. As I said originally, manual costs more money and most people never touch those functions. It’s easy to get caught up in the need to have the newest and the best, but I see enough people walking around with digital slr’s taking snap shots because they felt the need to have the equipment. Don’t overspend - stores love that.
The GS500 is a nice camera, no doubt. I really like my mx2500 - nice shape, good weight, nice ergonomics especially with the old sony pistol grip I have, and nice visuals. Take a look on e-bay. There’s at least one GS250 for sale at it’s under 600 USD. Just be sure of a warranty, is all.
Fellas, I, too, have been in the market for a camcorder and must say that this thread has been better than most “professional” review sites. You guys have really come through.
Thanx and let’s do this again.
A few more observations in my search:
It seems like in the “Pro-sumer” market, there will often be a higher-end Camcorder and a “sister” Cam that has slightly lesser features.
Two such cams (and two getting high reviews) are these:
Sony HDR-HC3:
and the
Sony HDR-HC1
The more expensive “sister” to HDR-HC3, with more features and in miniDV format.
I’d like you guys thoughts on these two (again, they keep coming up high in all ratings) and the “sister Cam” concept.
Also, we didn’t mention the importance of “High Definition” (which seems to be the direction things are going).
Thanks, guys!
Mufasa