Diet Critique

chriscarani · December 4, 2006, 6:02am

[quote]ubl0 wrote:
chriscarani wrote:

Were you born with a chip on your shoulder or did you just forget to eat your last meal?

Again read the diet plan.

The daily recommendation (since you are so keen on that) for Omega 3, is 4 grams. 1/2 cup of walnuts contains 5 grams (which is in there). Obviously trained individuals need more, hence the flax, and olive oil does contain omega 3 albeit in small amounts.

Yes I know what MD is, an over priced protein powder.

I didn?t write this up to cover every single angle of the kid?s nutrition, buddy boy. I was just giving him an idea of what a decent diet looks like. So go eat something, calm down, and take the stick out of your ass.

no i suffered it later, bad snowboard crash.

i ran the diet through my program. i have to apoligize and upgrade it to good. sometimes, i don’t know where to draw the line with optimization.

protein: 328g
carbs: 289g
fat: 107g
sat fat: 20.7g
poly fat: 25.4g
mono fat: 61g
o3 (18n3): 7.9g
o6 (18n2): 16.2g
EPA/DHA: 0.07g fish oil could be added

potassium, vitaminC, vitamin B1 and B9 are barely at or above DRI. for a higher calorie diet like this, they should be higher a bit

the lack of long chain polyunsaturated fat is the biggie, easily fixed with fish oil. if walnuts are eaten, then you also are taking in 22g of o6 too, not balanced, this could be remedied by splitting into two servings and eating a heaping tablespoon of flax meal with it.

you’re wrong on the MD.

the doctors say the stick should stay. i meanwhile have been looking for second opinions.[/quote]

Well cool man, thanks for the useful, contructive input, although the carb content is a little off. I had it at over 310, but not a biggie. There you go kid, if you are still around.

You might want to get a 2nd opinion on that stick though, perhaps a Chiro or Osteopath, might in order, they could also help adjust that chip

eengrms76 · December 4, 2006, 6:05am

[quote]chriscarani wrote:
eengrms76 wrote:
chriscarani wrote:
eengrms76 wrote:
chriscarani wrote:
Yea and will also put you in the hospital with hardened arteries, kidney failure and a giant stomach.

I hope this was supposed to be a joke.

If not I think they are missing a member over at bodybuilding.com

Lol. Yes, hyperbole, although not to far off.

Not trying to be a jerk, here, but in the lunch meal he has

12 oz steak
peanut butter bagel sandwich
3 cups milk

Steak had about 7 grams of protein per ounce, milk 8 and probably about 2 TBL spoons of PB on a bagel sand, which has 7 grams so that’s about 120 grams of protein in one meal man, and a ton of saturated fat.

Do you know what the omentum is? Basically it’s why so many BB have distended bellies with six packs. Too much saturated fat!

Your stats on milk are way off. Like 8 to 1.

Oh and let me guess- you think saturated fat is bad for you?

Also- ever heard of GH? Apparently not.

Milk has 8 grams of protein for every cup, right. Yes I think too much saturated fat is bad for you, especially some 70 grams of it in one meal! Do you even know what you are advocating here? Apparently not.[/quote]

Yes that’s right. That’s why they make those nifty labels.

70g? How did you calculate that. Quit pulling numbers out of your ass if you want to be taken seriously.

ubl0 · December 4, 2006, 6:23am

[quote]chriscarani wrote:

Milk has 8 grams of protein for every cup, right. Yes I think too much saturated fat is bad for you, especially some 70 grams of it in one meal! Do you even know what you are advocating here? Apparently not.

[/quote]

its around half that if the meat is trimmed of visible fat after cooking, still a days worth of saturated fat though.

ubl0 · December 4, 2006, 6:30am

[quote]chriscarani wrote:
Well cool man, thanks for the useful, contructive input, although the carb content is a little off. I had it at over 310, but not a biggie. There you go kid, if you are still around.

You might want to get a 2nd opinion on that stick though, perhaps a Chiro or Osteopath, might in order, they could also help adjust that chip ;)[/quote]

that is digestible carbs, add the 38g fiber and we get similar numbers. i used spinach for the veggies, so folate numbers may come in below DRI with substututions. also i used almonds in the nut one since it gave a more favorable o3/o6 ratio and 2.5 servings for the gatorade.

i think i put in an apple (200g) and a banana (140g) for the fruit. i had to fill in some info, so that explains why the numbers are not right on.

chriscarani · December 4, 2006, 6:57am

Wow! I just re-read that and I’m sorry man, that is in one day. I also see where you got the milk thing, I listed steak protein per ounce, and didn’t specify milk and PB.

So yes, over 600 calories from saturated fat is too high. I would stick within the recommendation of about 7% of calories from SF, max 10. Not only are the artiries at risk, but the omentum is in danger of enlargement.

chriscarani · December 4, 2006, 6:58am

[quote]ubl0 wrote:
chriscarani wrote:
Well cool man, thanks for the useful, contructive input, although the carb content is a little off. I had it at over 310, but not a biggie. There you go kid, if you are still around.

You might want to get a 2nd opinion on that stick though, perhaps a Chiro or Osteopath, might in order, they could also help adjust that chip

that is digestible carbs, add the 38g fiber and we get similar numbers. i used spinach for the veggies, so folate numbers may come in below DRI with substututions. also i used almonds in the nut one since it gave a more favorable o3/o6 ratio and 2.5 servings for the gatorade.

i think i put in an apple (200g) and a banana (140g) for the fruit. i had to fill in some info, so that explains why the numbers are not right on.[/quote]

Got ya.

chriscarani · December 4, 2006, 7:01am

[quote]ubl0 wrote:
chriscarani wrote:

Milk has 8 grams of protein for every cup, right. Yes I think too much saturated fat is bad for you, especially some 70 grams of it in one meal! Do you even know what you are advocating here? Apparently not.

its around half that if the meat is trimmed of visible fat after cooking, still a days worth of saturated fat though.[/quote]

Yea that is about right for total fat, but saturated fat is lower, like I meant to say about 70 grams for one day.

chriscarani · December 4, 2006, 7:04am

[quote]ubl0 wrote:
chriscarani wrote:
Well cool man, thanks for the useful, contructive input, although the carb content is a little off. I had it at over 310, but not a biggie. There you go kid, if you are still around.

You might want to get a 2nd opinion on that stick though, perhaps a Chiro or Osteopath, might in order, they could also help adjust that chip

that is digestible carbs, add the 38g fiber and we get similar numbers. i used spinach for the veggies, so folate numbers may come in below DRI with substututions. also i used almonds in the nut one since it gave a more favorable o3/o6 ratio and 2.5 servings for the gatorade.

i think i put in an apple (200g) and a banana (140g) for the fruit. i had to fill in some info, so that explains why the numbers are not right on.[/quote]

Where did you get that program, what is the name of it? I have memorized a great deal of things, but this site comes in handy,

http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/foodcomp/search/,

ALthough it does take some time.

chriscarani · December 4, 2006, 7:29am

That’s

http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/foodcomp/search/

eengrms76 · December 4, 2006, 2:43pm

[quote]chriscarani wrote:
ubl0 wrote:
chriscarani wrote:

Milk has 8 grams of protein for every cup, right. Yes I think too much saturated fat is bad for you, especially some 70 grams of it in one meal! Do you even know what you are advocating here? Apparently not.

its around half that if the meat is trimmed of visible fat after cooking, still a days worth of saturated fat though.

Yea that is about right for total fat, but saturated fat is lower, like I meant to say about 70 grams for one day.[/quote]

I still don’t see how 70g for one day is too high. If you’re on a 5000 calorie diet and are taking in at least 200g of fat, 1/3 of it should be saturated. You’re right that 70 would be too high, if you are only eating 3000 calories or dieting.

These are supposed to be bulking diets. Not bulk in the sense of getting fat- if you have that misconception then that’s your problem, but bulk in the sense of getting enough calories from clean food to support a mass gain phase.

chriscarani · December 4, 2006, 6:44pm

[quote]eengrms76 wrote:
chriscarani wrote:
ubl0 wrote:
chriscarani wrote:

Milk has 8 grams of protein for every cup, right. Yes I think too much saturated fat is bad for you, especially some 70 grams of it in one meal! Do you even know what you are advocating here? Apparently not.

its around half that if the meat is trimmed of visible fat after cooking, still a days worth of saturated fat though.

Yea that is about right for total fat, but saturated fat is lower, like I meant to say about 70 grams for one day.

I still don’t see how 70g for one day is too high. If you’re on a 5000 calorie diet and are taking in at least 200g of fat, 1/3 of it should be saturated. You’re right that 70 would be too high, if you are only eating 3000 calories or dieting.

These are supposed to be bulking diets. Not bulk in the sense of getting fat- if you have that misconception then that’s your problem, but bulk in the sense of getting enough calories from clean food to support a mass gain phase.[/quote]

Even on 5000 calories a day, which is high for the average person, and probably more than the original poster eats in 2 days, the max amount of sat fat you should be getting is about 500 calories. This diet contains about 630 and that is without calculating the olive oil. I don’t have any misconceptions, I know what I am talking about here. Excessive sat fat consumption will enlarge the omentum. So even when a person cuts, and sheds the subcutaneous layers of fat, they still end up with distended belly problems. Why deal with that? This is not to speak about it’s effects on the arteries and heart long term.

This is in addition to excessive consumption of protein in this particular diet, 120 grams in one sitting is absolutely crazy. I am not trying to rip on the kid here. He probably just threw up some foods in hopes of helping the this guy out. What I have a problem with is you saying it’s ok, because it’s a “bulking diet” etc etc. It’s not ok.

eengrms76 · December 4, 2006, 7:12pm

[quote]chriscarani wrote:
Even on 5000 calories a day, which is high for the average person, and probably more than the original poster eats in 2 days, the max amount of sat fat you should be getting is about 500 calories. This diet contains about 630 and that is without calculating the olive oil.[/quote]

so an extra 100 calories is going to magically create the problems you are suggesting, but 500 cals won’t?

Based on what qualifications? What is your degree in and where did you earn it? What are your certifications?

You really should say “may enlarge” here- as speaking in absolutes is retarded. You have no way to prove it will absolutely happen to every living human on the planet. Do you? If so please provide.

Really? Can you give me some examples of BBer’s that this has happened to? Pictures supporting your point would be helpful. Also- you need to make sure that any distended issues are not related to GH or other similar issues first.

It actually is ok if that’s what he wants to do. If his intention is to seriously bulk and needs that many calories a day how do you suppose he gets that if he limits his protein intake at each meal to say 40g? He’d have to eat 10 meals a day.

The long term effects are speculative at best, as we don’t have any decent long term studies on this. We can say that long term exposure to high amounts of saturated fat can lead to clogged arteries, etc., but there is no way to properly control a study like that and ignore the effects of all the other types of food eaten. Next you’ll tell us we shouldn’t drink milk because of the saturated fat. I think we all know that high amounts of processed food and trans fat are bad, but it has long since been debunked that saturated fat is bad for you.

If you have issues with people eating 5000+ cals a day then that’s a completely different issue. Do not try to push your anti-bulk rhetoric here. It won’t go far.

All of the selections were of clean food. Sure some of the amounts were a little out of whack, but overall it was decent. And the reason why I said it was ok was because I knew he was just throwing out some ideas of food to get a reaction. If some 160lber came on here saying he was going to eat like that daily I would laugh at him.

chriscarani · December 4, 2006, 8:45pm

[quote]eengrms76 wrote:
chriscarani wrote:
Even on 5000 calories a day, which is high for the average person, and probably more than the original poster eats in 2 days, the max amount of sat fat you should be getting is about 500 calories. This diet contains about 630 and that is without calculating the olive oil.

so an extra 100 calories is going to magically create the problems you are suggesting, but 500 cals won’t?

I don’t have any misconceptions, I know what I am talking about here.

Based on what qualifications? What is your degree in and where did you earn it? What are your certifications?

Excessive sat fat consumption will enlarge the omentum.

You really should say “may enlarge” here- as speaking in absolutes is retarded. You have no way to prove it will absolutely happen to every living human on the planet. Do you? If so please provide.

So even when a person cuts, and sheds the subcutaneous layers of fat, they still end up with distended belly problems. Why deal with that?

Really? Can you give me some examples of BBer’s that this has happened to? Pictures supporting your point would be helpful. Also- you need to make sure that any distended issues are not related to GH or other similar issues first.

What I have a problem with is you saying it’s ok, because it’s a “bulking diet” etc etc. It’s not ok.

It actually is ok if that’s what he wants to do. If his intention is to seriously bulk and needs that many calories a day how do you suppose he gets that if he limits his protein intake at each meal to say 40g? He’d have to eat 10 meals a day.

The long term effects are speculative at best, as we don’t have any decent long term studies on this. We can say that long term exposure to high amounts of saturated fat can lead to clogged arteries, etc., but there is no way to properly control a study like that and ignore the effects of all the other types of food eaten. Next you’ll tell us we shouldn’t drink milk because of the saturated fat. I think we all know that high amounts of processed food and trans fat are bad, but it has long since been debunked that saturated fat is bad for you.

If you have issues with people eating 5000+ cals a day then that’s a completely different issue. Do not try to push your anti-bulk rhetoric here. It won’t go far.

All of the selections were of clean food. Sure some of the amounts were a little out of whack, but overall it was decent. And the reason why I said it was ok was because I knew he was just throwing out some ideas of food to get a reaction. If some 160lber came on here saying he was going to eat like that daily I would laugh at him.[/quote]

This is the last post I am going to waste on you, then I am done, you have worked my last nerve and I am tired of going back and forth with you.

Do you even know what the hell you are talking about? I have come across a number of guys like you from T-Nation. You read a couple of articles from John Berdardi and Joe Defranco and all of the sudden you have a PhD and an attitude, like you conducted the studies they write articles about. It makes me laugh every time.

GH does not cause distended bellies, enlarged omentums do! Look on any bodybuilding stage, or Gustavo Baddell, who went to his doctor about his DB, and was told to cut back on the sat fat. Read about Dr. Mehmet Oz and his research. Look at an A&P/biology book and study how the body processes fat and what happens to saturated fat as opposed to mono and poly.

You can shrink the omentum, the problem is it is much harder to do than SC fat. Most BB only diet down for 3 months, and while with a ton AAS and FB supps they can get down to 5% BF, it is not ample time to shrink the belly. This organ is also hindered by excessive SF consumption and yes 150-200 calories over an already high amount is going to have a negative impact.

Yes I have a problem with a kid who is eating 2000 calories a day, eating 5000. I didn’t say sat fat is bad for you, I never said that, I said too much is. Unless you are buying organic, unprocessed peanut butter, which tastes horrid, PB is not clean, it has a ton of unnatural garbage in it.

“Anti bulk rhetoric”, you are a joke man. Get a life and quite giving out advice you have no clue about.

By the way I am working on a BS in human A&P, have been a licensed by the DMQA and certified by the NCTMB in massage therapy for over 6 years, and not to mention the PT certification I formerly held (but who really cares about those, they mean nothing). Does that qualify me? It does mean I have a sound understanding about the advice I am giving out, and what impact it is going to have upon someone’s health.

Now go drink your gallon of whole milk, spoon a few tbl spoons of lard down your throat, bulk and stop arguing about issues you have no clue about.

eengrms76 · December 5, 2006, 2:36am

[quote]chriscarani wrote:
eengrms76 wrote:
chriscarani wrote:
Even on 5000 calories a day, which is high for the average person, and probably more than the original poster eats in 2 days, the max amount of sat fat you should be getting is about 500 calories. This diet contains about 630 and that is without calculating the olive oil.