Some really thought-provoking posts here.
pain tolerance is an interesting one…
i’ve long been interested in the relationship between dissociation and really struggling through a max effort.
in dissociation people separate themselves from a painful (emotionally or otherwise) experience. in order to get through it. the thought is that dissociation is an adaptive experience to enable people to endure suffering that would otherwise crush them. they segment it off from themselves somehow.
can’t remember who… tate? wendler? someone… talked about how zippy does his max efforts for him. when things feel hard… he goes away and another part (of himself) sticks it out and gets the lift done.
usually… the ability to dissociate comes about as a response to trauma. i do wonder that people who have suffered trauma… emotional. physical. who have learned to dissociate in order to get through it (rather than just curling up and dying). i wonder whether these people might be more likely to really push themselves hard in training. to get a lot of satisfaction out of mastery. to have the dissociation skills in order to develop mastery.
perhaps.
if that is right…
there is a big literature on the genetic vs environmental components to the ability to dissociate. still kinda mixed… trauma is environmental. but individuals do differ in their natural response to it (to curl up or to fight or whatever). but then there is the impact of role models…
cool topic.
i don’t know about mental toughness but i have a very high threshold for pain. I have on many occasions pushed myself to the point where i’ve torn muscles and broken bones just through pushing past the bodies normal stopping point. I didn’t develop this “skill” it’s just always been there. i recently competed with a broken hand which was tough. the stupidest thing i ever did was in a meet i pushed too hard on a bench attempt, tore my pec. then decided to still deadlift. since the pec was injured my pull was uneven and placed a ton of stress on the opposite side’s oblique. as i was locking out the attempt i felt that oblique starting to rip. i didn’t stop and it tore across the length of my oblique until that side let go and the bar came crashing down. later a guy came up and said he thought my t-shirt was ripping when in reality it was the sound of my muscle tearing.
that’s my story.
[quote]atypical1 wrote:
Interesting discussion. I think there are many forms of mental toughness. There’s the ability to endure physical pain and discomfort. I think this is where people tend to put mental toughness. I think that most of this can be learned. That is to say that we are probably born with some tolernces but we definitely learn this over time. That is if you want to of course. Some people just don’t have any desire to be tested. Other people have a constant need to be tested physically or mentally. But those people are committed to winning or committed to enduring what they want to endure. Anyone can run a century if they want to. Anyone can do a 20 rep squat set. It’s just that most people don’t have the drive to do so. I was a really good runner in college because I was willing to put in the miles and train regardless of weather, time of day, how I was feeling, etc. I was also able to run with a variety of injuries because I was committed. It’s that committedness that people think of when they think mental toughness.
There’s also the mental toughness that is associated with doing the right thing. It’s about not getting into a shouting match when that jerk cuts you off on the freeway. Or not divorcing your wife (or husband) when things go bad and trying to fix it (not that divorce is never the right thing to do). It’s about keeping your cool when your three year old son is screaming his head off as you’re carrying him through Disneyland (not that this recently happened to me).
Anyway, just some random thoughts.
james[/quote]
I agree with you they are different but related qualities. I wouldn’t be surprised to find that many people have both or neither.
A large part of how you handle life “doing the right thing” and taking responsibility for your actions, is instilled by our parents. I know it was for me and I know its my job now as a father. I tell my kids, always do the right thing-if your not sure imagine the choice you make is on the front page of the paper-or on the internet-would you be proud? would your family be proud of your choice? If the answer is no then its the wrong thing /choice.
Unfortunately many people seem to grow up thinking they are owed something and that nothing is ever their fault.
Pain tollerance may be genetic or learned, I’ve been traing so long I don’t know when I developed it. I’ve pushed myself right into injuries on several occasions. I had a fear that as I got older my desire to train and train hard would diminish. This has not happened and my drive in the gym is still very high, is this genetic or learned?
I like reading peoples thoughts on this.
I have waxed long and poetic about this very same topic.
so I might ramble
the sports that I competed in- are kind of a grind on ones ego
wrestling and Judo - its only you out there ( or so I thought)
loosing
giving in to fatigue or injury
or just being outclassed
and leave you very vulnerable
I saw those as weaknesses, and really they are kind of natural things to give into.
and thinking about how to stay competitive- not win - just make it competitive
was enough for me to really think about this
I had to take a look at this stuff.
what was keeping me from reaching my goals
what did I need to do to find the success I needed
I read things from Dan Gable and Mashiko Kimura
both royalty or Icons of my sports
and they found success great sucess
where Mental toughness was a part of the equation
another part was increasing the training volume- to an insane level.
a level much higher ( you hoped ) then any of your competitors
so I took that approach
basically that training however difficult,
is irrelevant
the numbers, the weight cutting, the roadwork it is staggering on paper
But it is the inconvenience that it causes you
the time you have to sacrifice to get it done
the pleasures you deny yourself - to make sure you are doing
all thing necessary to meet your goals.
wanting your goals as much as your next breath
those thoughts are what fires and hones the mental toughness.
- that only you-
can prevent your goals from being reached
is a lopsided way of looking at it.
but it does promote toughness
lots of people are there to help you
coaches, teammates, maybe family if you are lucky
when they see you do the work.
but really only yourself can let you down.
Its allot to live with.
also I constantly thought I needed to do more-
to keep up
to keep it competitive
its was a Huge deficit in ability I hoped to
equal the odds a little my way.
meeting those goals
doing the work
living thru the things you have to sacrifice to do the work
those are the factors that help instill the confidence
in your abilities.
it translates to work- and home life
that if you work hard you can achieve good good things.