[quote]Professor X wrote:
Mind you, I used to work at a store while in college …[quote]
Maybe he did, maybe he didn’t. Keep in mind he tells us he’s a doctor here on the good ole’ net. 
Though late to this thread, I figured I would add a few words to this.
First, let me say while I wouldn’t characterize the privilege of white people as ‘white supremacy’ these days, I believe that there is an inherent ability of white culture to do well in American society.
And though I enjoyed reading your post, Al Durr, I reckon I must go a different way.
Here’s why: I see far too many black youth who never get a chance to get ‘shot down’ because of ‘white privilege’ - long before they get the chance to arm themselves with the necessary skills and education to go up against a white colleague with similar skills and education, and consequently get closed out by white privilege, they are defeated.
It is difficult, in my view, to claim that white privilege is holding so many blacks back when these black Americans never even make it far enough to get shut down by the white privilege. Let me be clear - I am not suggesting the white privilege is non-existent, not bad, or should not be corrected, if at all possible. I am suggesting that white privilege does not affect blacks until they are well into the race, and most of the inherent problems holding them back are far closer to the starting line.
On a weekly basis, I assist minority kids with their education (mostly inner city). These kids struggle, not because a white person has closed down opportunities to them, but because their own culture has. To be frank, as a de facto dad to a lot of these kids - who are mostly black - I can honestly admit that I wish they had the opportunity to get themselves in a position to actually be shut out by white privilege in getting jobs, getting into colleges, etc. As strange as that sounds, I actually wish I could claim that the primary obstacle for the kids I work with was white privilege - at least then, we would know that these kids had the ability to get ahead on their own and we could take the problem by the horns. Alas, in my experience, it doesn’t work that way.
On a weekly basis, I struggle trying to get black kids to realize that learning math, history, and English are not ‘white’ traits at all. But who is on their other shoulder telling them this? Not whites - instead, it is their peers, their families, their friends. We want black kids to get an education - but how can we when black culture keeps reinforcing that the kids need to quit playing the white man’s game?
It is arguable that the people reinforcing these ridiculous attitudes have themselves been stonewalled by ‘white privilege’ and have become cynical. But how does that take us to a place where race privilege simply doesn’t matter? It doesn’t - it only reinforces what is presumably a bad idea, that white folks will and always be dominant and favored. If that is wrong, why have so many in the black culture laid down the fight? They have abdicated their responisbility to fix first what they can independently, internally, and then move on to fixing external problems, like white privilege.
Many of my kids have academic opportunities - and they pass them up. They work for a while, and then quit. Many of them are quite frank that they can’t stand the stigma of being academic in their neighborhoods. They aren’t rewarded for good grades or excellence in learning. No one throws them a party if they get into a good university. These kids will never falter in the face of white privilege because they falter first completely on their own.
Again, if I could get 75% of my kids to be fully prepared to take on the world only to come back to tell me they got shafted because a white guy got the job, I’d be ecstatic. That is a sad view, but one I work towards.
In my estimation, we need to correct ‘white privilege’ to whatever extent possible given human nature. But a more fundamental problem needs fixing, and white privilege has little to do with it.
[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:
Conversely, those who are the targets of this racism (minorities), have the will to correct and destroy the negative results of racism, but because of the racist obstacles of this society, whether they are political, economic, social or psychological, do not have the ability to do so.
Though late to this thread, I figured I would add a few words to this.
First, let me say while I wouldn’t characterize the privilege of white people as ‘white supremacy’ these days, I believe that there is an inherent ability of white culture to do well in American society.
And though I enjoyed reading your post, Al Durr, I reckon I must go a different way.
Here’s why: I see far too many black youth who never get a chance to get ‘shot down’ because of ‘white privilege’ - long before they get the chance to arm themselves with the necessary skills and education to go up against a white colleague with similar skills and education, and consequently get closed out by white privilege, they are defeated.
It is difficult, in my view, to claim that white privilege is holding so many blacks back when these black Americans never even make it far enough to get shut down by the white privilege. Let me be clear - I am not suggesting the white privilege is non-existent, not bad, or should not be corrected, if at all possible. I am suggesting that white privilege does not affect blacks until they are well into the race, and most of the inherent problems holding them back are far closer to the starting line.
On a weekly basis, I assist minority kids with their education (mostly inner city). These kids struggle, not because a white person has closed down opportunities to them, but because their own culture has. To be frank, as a de facto dad to a lot of these kids - who are mostly black - I can honestly admit that I wish they had the opportunity to get themselves in a position to actually be shut out by white privilege in getting jobs, getting into colleges, etc. As strange as that sounds, I actually wish I could claim that the primary obstacle for the kids I work with was white privilege - at least then, we would know that these kids had the ability to get ahead on their own and we could take the problem by the horns. Alas, in my experience, it doesn’t work that way.
On a weekly basis, I struggle trying to get black kids to realize that learning math, history, and English are not ‘white’ traits at all. But who is on their other shoulder telling them this? Not whites - instead, it is their peers, their families, their friends. We want black kids to get an education - but how can we when black culture keeps reinforcing that the kids need to quit playing the white man’s game?
It is arguable that the people reinforcing these ridiculous attitudes have themselves been stonewalled by ‘white privilege’ and have become cynical. But how does that take us to a place where race privilege simply doesn’t matter? It doesn’t - it only reinforces what is presumably a bad idea, that white folks will and always be dominant and favored. If that is wrong, why have so many in the black culture laid down the fight? They have abdicated their responisbility to fix first what they can independently, internally, and then move on to fixing external problems, like white privilege.
Many of my kids have academic opportunities - and they pass them up. They work for a while, and then quit. Many of them are quite frank that they can’t stand the stigma of being academic in their neighborhoods. They aren’t rewarded for good grades or excellence in learning. No one throws them a party if they get into a good university. These kids will never falter in the face of white privilege because they falter first completely on their own.
Again, if I could get 75% of my kids to be fully prepared to take on the world only to come back to tell me they got shafted because a white guy got the job, I’d be ecstatic. That is a sad view, but one I work towards.
In my estimation, we need to correct ‘white privilege’ to whatever extent possible given human nature. But a more fundamental problem needs fixing, and white privilege has little to do with it.[/quote]
Thunder,
I am not arguing any of the post that you have written. In fact, I am in agreement with most of what you have said. I appreciate your enlightened stance as well. I just want to point out a few things to clarify. When I used the phrase “white supremacy” or any variation thereof, it is not to suggest that that whites are actively promoting this. What it means is that based on the principles of “white supremacy” that caused most blacks to be in this country in the first place and the systematic destruction of them as a people has caused much of the problem that you are speaking about.
The fact that many of the youth that you are trying to help are shot down in their own environment long before they are shot down by white privilege has its roots in slavery and has been a self-fulfilling prophecy ever since. In just one lifetime, this demonic process, which includes rape, terrorism or abduction can have devastating affects on the succeeding generations. Now realize that this went on for many lifetimes. Also, the tactics of mind control, mistrust, abuse, segregation and the like have created an environment for blacks in this country that many have yet to free themselves from. Part of slavery was to make blacks feel that they are less than human and not deserving of the good things in life.
This society has reinforced this mentality over many, many generations. Most images of blacks throughout their existence in this country have been negative. All of the positive images have been removed to reinforce the superiority of whites over blacks. Even today, if we aren’t in front of the world entertaining it, we are being carted away in handcuffs. Self-esteem is a huge issue in our community.
Think about this, if you study world history using only sources from the USA, how is it that there are no references of how Africans affected civilization? However, if you go to sources published outside the USA their are scores of publication referencing the contribution to civilization that africans have made? It is a systemic problem that has been reinforced by ignorance and misinformation. The fact that these kids have defeated themselves first illustrates this issue. I firmly believe that if we can fix this systemic issue by being completely truthful and honest, the situation that you are around would be significantly improved.
[quote]ZEB wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Mind you, I used to work at a store while in college …
Maybe he did, maybe he didn’t. Keep in mind he tells us he’s a doctor here on the good ole’ net.
[/quote]
Is there a reason why you don’t question others on this board? Is BB a lawyer? Does Rainjack really do other people’s taxes?
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Why would you assume I am not calm?
[/quote]
Because I agree with you, and am on your side and you’re arguing with me.
I didn’t say it was centuries ago, no one did. But we can’t change the past, and using an example that doesn’t exist anymore doesn’t really apply to anyone anywhere. I got this impression from the “What racism is and isn’t” thread where the original letter said it was tied to economics and I asserted that being forced to sit at the back of the bus (based on race) has little to do with economics, but is still wrong.
I wasn’t using the profile to describe your situation, I was using the omission of the profile to show that we, in fact, do enjoy a “white privilege”. Also, if you wanted to be technical, rarely are the crimes you’re “suspected of committing” profiled (at least not by a federal agency).
Okay, good, now what part of “I AGREE WITH YOU!” do you not get?
First of all, you haven’t been in MY town. Secondly, as I said, it’s not that you’re story/situation wasn’t true/believable, it was that the idea you’re depicting doesn’t at all associate with white people in white neighborhoods where there aren’t undercover cops (or the undercovers aren’t really concerned with “petty crime”) and they don’t use those tactics (especially on white people).
[quote]ALDurr wrote:
Doogie, I think you missed the point here. I never said that quotas didn’t exist. However, blacks did not set these quotas, nor are we forcing anyone to live with them. I am very familiar with this case and the very few others that pop up because they are used to by the “liberal” MSM to build cases against Affirmative Action. This is by design and part of the white supremacist society that we all live in. This is all done to marginalize the skills and abilities of blacks in this country and plant the seeds of doubt and mistrust. These institutions do the same thing. They are told that we can’t achieve, so they lower the standards so they can build cases later to say that we can’t achieve. Self-fulfilling prophecies are created in this country all the time. This is all part of the game that is done in this country. If the standards were the same, chances are that your numbers would not change very much because people who didn’t qualify wouldn’t apply. You would get a different pool of talent. But that would kill the ability of white institutions to claim that non-whites are not as capable than whites. We are all victims of this very game.
The reason that I said you missed the point is that my response was to a post that was related to what blacks believe should be their rights (I am paraphrasing, not quoting) and really had nothing to do with saying that it does or doesn’t happen.
Picking out one or two particular case(s) does not make this a rule. The problem is that the one or two exceptions are used in many people’s minds to say this is how everything works for blacks. This society is all too ready to accept negatives about non-whites, especially blacks.
I may have been on a slight rant because I have to live with this type of crap all of the time. The rant may have cause some generalizations that may not be completely accurate, but I, much like many blacks, grow weary of having to defend ourselves.
In this society, there has always been some doubt about my skills, abilities and knowledge simply because of my skin color. I know for a fact that my test scores and GPA that I earned to get into college and grad school were higher than many of my white counterparts. I’ve talked to them personally and we’ve compared notes. The same things have occurred at every job that I worked as well. Because I don’t fit perceived notions, I don’t get the benefit of the doubt. I have been in meetings where I am in charge of projects and have had people doubt me until a white person verified my position. I have also watch whites that were in charge of projects get the benefit of the doubt on a regular basis. So, yes it is a personal thing for me, and sometimes that comes out and it may not always be coherent.[/quote]
I haven’t been keeping up with this thread very well for the last few pages, but I just wanted to say that the effect ALDurr is describing is one of the main reasons I am so against affirmative action. I don’t agree with his inference of the reason AA programs were adopted (I think well intentioned people do monumentally stupid things with good intentions all the time), but just wanted to voice a quick agreement with the negative effect. It’s a very predictable effect of holding people to differing standards when making initial decisions.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
ZEB wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Mind you, I used to work at a store while in college …
Maybe he did, maybe he didn’t. Keep in mind he tells us he’s a doctor here on the good ole’ net.
Is there a reason why you don’t question others on this board? Is BB a lawyer? Does Rainjack really do other people’s taxes?[/quote]
Is this a rhetorical question? Come on, you know the answer to that! Have you forgotten the title of this topic?
[quote]ALDurr wrote:
Professor X wrote:
ZEB wrote:ring if THEY have even figured it out yet. I ne
Professor X wrote:
Mind you, I used to work at a store while in college …
Maybe he did, maybe he didn’t. Keep in mind he tells us he’s a doctor here on the good ole’ net.
Is there a reason why you don’t question others on this board? Is BB a lawyer? Does Rainjack really do other people’s taxes?
Is this a rhetorical question? Come on, you know the answer to that! Have you forgotten the title of this topic?
[/quote]
I am just wondering if they even understand why. I never see anyone…NOT ANYONE…else get called out for their profession. I mean, shit, anyone in the military could verify that with my military web address. I often wonder if it just pisses them off or what.
[quote]BostonBarrister wrote:
I haven’t been keeping up with this thread very well for the last few pages, but I just wanted to say that the effect ALDurr is describing is one of the main reasons I am so against affirmative action. I don’t agree with his inference of the reason AA programs were adopted (I think well intentioned people do monumentally stupid things with good intentions all the time), but just wanted to voice a quick agreement with the negative effect. It’s a very predictable effect of holding people to differing standards when making initial decisions.[/quote]
On the whole, I believe AA has done more good than harm. I believe in it principles. It states that all people should have fair and equal treatment and they all have to be taken into consideration when applying for jobs, school admissions etc, regardless of background. What I disagree with, and always have disagreed with (despite what others might twist my words to say) is the use of different standards and quotas.
AA was not and is not set up this way, despite what its detractors want to believe. The occurence of different standards and quotas was the response that different operating entities chose to use to meet AA. By doing so, they would receive money and/or special considerations (tax breaks, etc.) from the government.
The government never said that they have to use quotas and different standards to acheive these ends. AA never said it either. It was simply stated that if you do not have these representations in your organizations at the levels reflective of the general population, you are not eligible for these benefits. They could have chosen to operate without them, but because of greed and lack of understanding, these ways of meeting the levels were enacted. It is more expedient to just lower levels and set quotas than it would be to work with the target groups you want and build up their organizations with ones that meet the established standards. Because of such laziness and avarice, a potentially good thing gets horribly screwed up.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
ALDurr wrote:
Professor X wrote:
ZEB wrote:ring if THEY have even figured it out yet. I ne
Professor X wrote:
Mind you, I used to work at a store while in college …
Maybe he did, maybe he didn’t. Keep in mind he tells us he’s a doctor here on the good ole’ net.
Is there a reason why you don’t question others on this board? Is BB a lawyer? Does Rainjack really do other people’s taxes?
Is this a rhetorical question? Come on, you know the answer to that! Have you forgotten the title of this topic?
I am just wondering if they even understand why. I never see anyone…NOT ANYONE…else get called out for their profession. I mean, shit, anyone in the military could verify that with my military web address. I often wonder if it just pisses them off or what.[/quote]
Hell ProfX, I’m waiting for them to doubt that I am a research scientist. Even though I have spoken about it at great lengths in the past.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
I never see anyone…NOT ANYONE…else get called out for their profession. I mean, shit, anyone in the military could verify that with my military web address. I often wonder if it just pisses them off or what.
ALDurr wrote:
Hell ProfX, I’m waiting for them to doubt that I am a research scientist. Even though I have spoken about it at great lengths in the past.[/quote]
THIS is funny.
ALDurr, as a “Research Scientist” how would you feel if the line:
“That is the difference between those of us who actually went to school for this and those of us who simply read something on the internet and think we are experts.”
got tossed at you?
Even better, I’ll give you three guesses who tossed it?
Hint: He’s right in that he didn’t actually “call me out” for my profession.
[quote]ALDurr wrote:
c. There should be quotas at the expense of hiring, or admitting the most qualified.
This is absolute nonsense. First of all, this statement lends to the belief that blacks are not as qualified as whites so we need to have quotas to give us an advantage. There is not one black person in the country that subscribes to this notion. We subscribe to the notion of getting fair and equal treatment and consideration regards of our race. However, this does not always happen. This kind of statement is another piece of propaganda put out by people that don’t really want an equal system. People who want to keep the staus quo (white supremist society).
Second of all, there has never been any real evidence that this has occurred. Actually, the opposite has occurred. Blacks have always had to be more qualified than their white counterparts just to be considered for the same positions.
Third of all, whenever people have been questioned on this belief, there is no actual evidence to support it. It’s all heresay and perpetuation of racist beliefs.
ALDurr wrote:
Doogie, I think you missed the point here. I never said that quotas didn’t exist. However, blacks did not set these quotas, nor are we forcing anyone to live with them. I am very familiar with this case and the very few others that pop up because they are used to by the “liberal” MSM to build cases against Affirmative Action. This is by design and part of the white supremacist society that we all live in. This is all done to marginalize the skills and abilities of blacks in this country and plant the seeds of doubt and mistrust. These institutions do the same thing. They are told that we can’t achieve, so they lower the standards so they can build cases later to say that we can’t achieve. Self-fulfilling prophecies are created in this country all the time. This is all part of the game that is done in this country. If the standards were the same, chances are that your numbers would not change very much because people who didn’t qualify wouldn’t apply. You would get a different pool of talent. But that would kill the ability of white institutions to claim that non-whites are not as capable than whites. We are all victims of this very game.
The reason that I said you missed the point is that my response was to a post that was related to what blacks believe should be their rights (I am paraphrasing, not quoting) and really had nothing to do with saying that it does or doesn’t happen.
[/quote]
I don’t know if you are honestly confused, or just full of shit. You specifically said, “Second of all, there has never been any real evidence that this has occurred. Actually, the opposite has occurred. Blacks have always had to be more qualified than their white counterparts just to be considered for the same positions.” Then you back track and say, “I never said that quotas didn’t exist.”
What about the welfare statistics pointed out above by Tommygun? He cited his source. Where did you get yours?
[quote]lucasa wrote:
Professor X wrote:
I never see anyone…NOT ANYONE…else get called out for their profession. I mean, shit, anyone in the military could verify that with my military web address. I often wonder if it just pisses them off or what.
ALDurr wrote:
Hell ProfX, I’m waiting for them to doubt that I am a research scientist. Even though I have spoken about it at great lengths in the past.
THIS is funny.
ALDurr, as a “Research Scientist” how would you feel if the line:
“That is the difference between those of us who actually went to school for this and those of us who simply read something on the internet and think we are experts.”
got tossed at you?
Even better, I’ll give you three guesses who tossed it?
Hint: He’s right in that he didn’t actually “call me out” for my profession.[/quote]
If I didn’t call you out for your profession, what is your point? That was the point. I certainly did say that to you because the thread you pulled that from involved you showing clearly that you had no real world experience with the info aside from reading what I would assume to be internet sites. This was explained to you then and it is explained again now. I have never seen anyone question the authors here or any other member as far as what they do for a living just to be sure they actually went to school like they said they did.
I believe BB is a lawyer because I have no reason not to. He is on line just like the rest of us yet no one calls him to task as to whether he is actually a lawyer. Why would the rules be different for me? Unless everyone here is about to start providing photo ID and a list of schools attended, why would someone question one person but not all? The accusation was that I supposedly worked at a store as if I had to lie about it?
Let’s see, I have worked since I was 15 years old. I have worked at Astroworld (Six Flags division in Houston), Target, GNC, The Galleria as security, I have done research in Iowa while in college and Breast cancer research at Baylor in Houston. I have worked as a chemical lab tech assistant while in college, and as a personal trainer. All of this was before I began my current career. I have probably had at least some experience in more fields than most people on this board, not to mention community service. So tell me, why are YOU not questioned?
[quote]Professor X wrote:
So tell me, why are YOU not questioned? [/quote]
My guess? Probably because I don’t make assertions like:
I have probably had at least some experience in more fields than most people on this board, not to mention community service.
[quote]lucasa wrote:
Professor X wrote:
So tell me, why are YOU not questioned?
My guess? Probably because I don’t make assertions like:
I have probably had at least some experience in more fields than most people on this board, not to mention community service.
[/quote]
Good for you. If someone is going to question what I do down to whether I have actually worked at a store before, they deserve that as well. How is it you all expect to ask these questions or hold me to a different standard…and then act appalled when I finally answer you?
AlDurr and Professor X:
I admire both of you and the obvious success you have made for yourselves. You are intellegent and obviously have drive and conviction.
I can never understand what it would be like to grow up a non white in this country. This country, while great and I love it, but was built on oppression and displacement of peoples.
This we can not deny.
Some of the best communicators and salespeople I work with are black. What I have found with them is they do not have any chips on their shoulders about race. The ones who do are generally less liked by the majority and less successful.
It looks like there is a point where as a black man or minority, you kind of have to break the mold so to speak and integrate to white culture more than others in order to be more successful econimically than the next black guy. Am I right?
I think once the economic situation betters itself for the black community things should get better for the next generation as a whole. Socioeconomics play a big role in getting there. Both sides of the spectrum need to realize this and work to a happy medium. This will require a big effort by white people to make happen as well. We need to better understand and integrate our cultures to get there without having any bad attitude on either side.
Question is exactly how?
[quote]ALDurr wrote:
I am not arguing any of the post that you have written. In fact, I am in agreement with most of what you have said. I appreciate your enlightened stance as well. I just want to point out a few things to clarify. When I used the phrase “white supremacy” or any variation thereof, it is not to suggest that that whites are actively promoting this. What it means is that based on the principles of “white supremacy” that caused most blacks to be in this country in the first place and the systematic destruction of them as a people has caused much of the problem that you are speaking about.[/quote]
But a problem. One enormous problem is that black children are extremely disadvantaged when they come from a home without married parents. It has been estimated that the family income of black children rises by 81% with marriage. Yet we see blindlingly high rates of black children with no married parents, and the trend is headed downward.
And here is the thing - white privilege does not reinforce this problem.
I am not saying you disagree with the problems - we probably agree on much. I am merely suggesting that this problem - which I think may be perhaps the biggest in black culture - is not related to any disadvantage related to white privilege.
You suggested that white privilege was not a concious effort on the part of whites to take advantage of race - but this statement suggests you think there is deliberate misrepresentation of the imagery of blacks to keep them down. How do you reconcile this?
I can say confidently that when I studied world history, I got a survey of African civilizations. Did you not?
There is absolutely no shortage these days of ‘multiculturalism’ - whatever its worth - in education. You won’t find Africa as a big part of any Western civlization studies, and for obvious reasons. That being said, I have a difficult time believing young black students don’t have access to learning about Africa.
Moreover, I am having a hard time seeing the connection between learning about ancient African contributions to civilization and the current status of black culture.
We agree on much, but I think being truthful and honest would remedy alot.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Good for you. If someone is going to question what I do down to whether I have actually worked at a store before, they deserve that as well. How is it you all expect to ask these questions or hold me to a different standard…and then act appalled when I finally answer you? [/quote]
First of all, ZEB was kidding (thus the smiley) and IMO, ALDurr was the one that really called you out.
Second, I haven’t questioned your occupation except for clarity with regard to reading material (a physicist, mathematician, programmer have probably read ‘Flatland’ MDs, RNs, MTs, CT ASCPs, probably not).
Third, if I were appalled, it would be because someone who has been victimized by e-stalking would so willingly share/volunteer so much personal information.
Fourth, if you’re mad at ZEB or ALDurr, take it up with them, not on me. I wasn’t calling you out for your profession, I merely found it funny when you said that you’ve seen “NOT ANYONE” called out for their profession besides you when I’ve seen you question peoples’ competency and credentials left, right, and center.
Lastly, (since you threw it out there) ALDurr’s right, if we were all African American doctors we wouldn’t be having this discussion, but education, occupation, and race all play a part in what people of either race perceive as denial and privilege. It’s a luxury that the military/government employs you.
[quote]lucasa wrote:
Third, if I were appalled, it would be because someone who has been victimized by e-stalking would so willingly share/volunteer so much personal information.[/quote]
You don’t have all the information. That much should be understood. Secondly, having my every word followed by a tv journalist and emailed back to me, while strange, bizarre, and indicative of the huge range of disturbed individuals on the internet and in life who even hold public positions, any info I have given has made me no more easy to locate at this point in time than any time previous. I am of the opinion that if someone wants to take this from the internet to reality, it leaves me the option of using every resource available to stop them and make it public record. You really do have to ask, however, why there is any focus on me at all beyond normal.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
lucasa wrote:
Third, if I were appalled, it would be because someone who has been victimized by e-stalking would so willingly share/volunteer so much personal information.
You don’t have all the information. That much should be understood. Secondly, having my every word followed by a tv journalist and emailed back to me, while strange, bizarre, and indicative of the huge range of disturbed individuals on the internet and in life who even hold public positions, any info I have given has made me no more easy to locate at this point in time than any time previous. I am of the opinion that if someone wants to take this from the internet to reality, it leaves me the option of using every resource available to stop them and make it public record. You really do have to ask, however, why there is any focus on me at all beyond normal.[/quote]
Serious question Prof. Why do you think you get more attention then normal and does it bother you?
I remember the Oggie incident. It was disturbing and seemed like stalking to me. I am a lot more private on the internet then most, pics included, because of similar reasons.