Denial, Privilege and Life as a Majority

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
181

[quote]TommyGunn wrote:
BostonBarrister wrote:
TommyGunn wrote:

I obtained my welfare information from The US Department of Health and Human Services, which has the most recent and accurate data available regarding welfare.

Where did you obtain yours from?

According to their data, the average number of total monthly welfare recipients are [u]nowhere near[/u] 20 million people, let alone 15 million white people.

Here are the calendar years 2000-2004 and the average number of monthly TOTAL welfare recipients.

2000 - 5,778,034
2001 - 5,359,180
2002 - 5,069,010
2003 - 4,931,082
2004 - 4,746,126

According to the data that I have presented, the welfare information that you are disseminating appears to be inaccurate.

Again, where did you get your welfare information from?

Tommy,

Those seem low – are those just the numbers of people who received checks, or are they the number of people covered in families that received checks? If the former, that makes more sense – otherwise it seems much too small a percentage of the population (currently estimated at just under 300 million total).

BB,

Those are the actual number of individuals who receive welfare every month. In the context of the welfare data, recipient = individual person.

The average number of families who receive welfare every month are obviously less.

The government’s welfare data shows the number of families receiving welfare as well as the number of recipients (individuals) receiving welfare. Thus, if one familiy has 4 people receiving welfare, the family would be counted as one “family” for family data, and the 4 family members would be counted as 4 “recipients” for the recipent data.

In June 2005, 1,895,756 families received welfare and 4,449,811 individuals received welfare. The estimated US population in July 2005 was 296,410,404. Thus, only 1.5% of the US population was on welfare in June 2005.

Furthermore, the allegation that there are more white people (15 million) on welfare than black people (5 million) is inaccurate, and I am interested to know where those figures came from, because they are not from The US Department of Health and Human Services.[/quote]

While I think it is great to make sure the facts posted here are actually true, what does it matter?

We talk about discrimination and just how slavery has created that process, but if there is anything responsible for more blacks on welfare it is slavery. Any racial group that was treated that way and then given a way out of poverty (or so it seemed) like welfare, would have also taken it hook line and sinker. Little did the blacks know that what appeared to be their savior at the time would later turn out to be another slave owner.

So the issue is not that more blacks are on welfare. The issue is that as a community they should now be standing up and denouncing it in favor of programs that create independence not dependence.

182

http://www.cm-life.com/vnews/display.v/ART/2006/02/01/43e050ac636aa

Fewer students disclose ethnicity on enrollment forms

?I applied to Michigan and a recruiter came to my high school and told us that if you were black you did not have to write the essay (which was required for other students),? she said. ?Well I had already written my essay and I was offended so much that I decided not to go to school there.?

183

White people arent evil, they’re just really smart… like the Jews.

184

There is a new show coming up called “swithching races” where a black family is made white and vise versa and they have to go through life as a different race.

Looks interesting

185

[quote]Rockscar wrote:
There is a new show coming up called “swithching races” where a black family is made white and vise versa and they have to go through life as a different race.

Looks interesting[/quote]

I’ve seen previews for it. I am interested in how that plays out. I don’t watch much tv, but I may record that one. When is it scheduled?

186

[quote]Rockscar wrote:
There is a new show coming up called “swithching races” where a black family is made white and vise versa and they have to go through life as a different race.

Looks interesting[/quote]

I’m interested to see if this show is some kind of slanted PC propaganda or will accurately reveal the truth? In other words, the actual good and bad bias a black or white man receives in the community. Not just showing the bad.

So if someone gets shit because he is white, they show that. And if someone gets treated better because they are black, they show that. This would be a fair and accurate portal of the issue.

So I hope they have the balls to show exactly what happens and not tailor it to their personal bias. If that occurs the show will be a success in my book.

187

I have three questions:

  1. Am I privileged simply because I
    am born white?
  2. Does this apply to all whites
    or just US whites?
  3. If it applies to whites world
    wide, what is the definition of
    white?

If any of these questions have been asked and or answered earlier I apologize.

188

[quote]Killer Rabbit wrote:
I have three questions:

  1. Am I privileged simply because I
    am born white?
  2. Does this apply to all whites
    or just US whites?
  3. If it applies to whites world
    wide, what is the definition of
    white?

If any of these questions have been asked and or answered earlier I apologize.
[/quote]

This entire discussion is in terms of America. Blacks in other countries may or may not be directly influenced by slavery and it may or may not have had a huge social impact that lasted for centuries. If you haven’t read the thread, please don’t nbring us all of the way back to the beginning. read it, then reply.

189

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Rockscar wrote:
There is a new show coming up called “swithching races” where a black family is made white and vise versa and they have to go through life as a different race.

Looks interesting

I’ve seen previews for it. I am interested in how that plays out. I don’t watch much tv, but I may record that one. When is it scheduled?[/quote]

I’m not sure but if you have TIVO you can search for it. I tried to Google it but got nothing.

190

[quote]Lorisco wrote:
Rockscar wrote:
There is a new show coming up called “swithching races” where a black family is made white and vise versa and they have to go through life as a different race.

Looks interesting

I’m interested to see if this show is some kind of slanted PC propaganda or will accurately reveal the truth? In other words, the actual good and bad bias a black or white man receives in the community. Not just showing the bad.

So if someone gets shit because he is white, they show that. And if someone gets treated better because they are black, they show that. This would be a fair and accurate portal of the issue.

So I hope they have the balls to show exactly what happens and not tailor it to their personal bias. If that occurs the show will be a success in my book.

[/quote]

I’m betting this won’t be like the Eddie Murphy SNL skit where he goes white and gets everything free like loans products etc., which by the way was hilarious.

191

I have read the thread, but many of the posts have simply become arguments between two people on something other than the article. I wanted to make sure none of these questions had slipped into a post I only glanced at.

I asked these ?'s simply because I wonder when I have made amends for being white. Is it as simple as admitting I am privileged because I am white or do I need to do more? I can say I am not a racist but does my skin color make me one anyway? Better yet, how poor did the life I was born into need to be before my privilege is negated.

As a side note this article does not only deal with just the blacks and whites. Nor is slavery a primary theme.

192

[quote]Killer Rabbit wrote:
I have read the thread, but many of the posts have simply become arguments between two people on something other than the article. I wanted to make sure none of these questions had slipped into a post I only glanced at.

I asked these ?'s simply because I wonder when I have made amends for being white. Is it as simple as admitting I am privileged because I am white or do I need to do more? I can say I am not a racist but does my skin color make me one anyway? Better yet, how poor did the life I was born into need to be before my privilege is negated.

As a side note this article does not only deal with just the blacks and whites. Nor is slavery a primary theme.[/quote]

Bringing facts, logic, or common sense into the discussion will automatically make you a priviledged racist.

193

Don’t listen to Doogie, he’s not sure what any of those things are.

194

Wow! I’m suprised to see that this thread is still on the first page of this forum. I figured it would have died out by now, seeing that much of it has turned into name-calling and one-upmanship (Before anyone says this, I’m not above this either. I’m just pointing it out). I’ve been pretty busy, so I haven’t had a chance to check on here in a while. I do not have the desire to continue a pissing match with people on here because it gets us nowhere. It becomes a colossal waste of energy. However, I would like to address a few people.

TommyGunn,

I never doubted the accuracy of the numbers that you posted, nor started an argument with you. The post that you responded to was to illustrate a point to the other person, not you. Your orignal post did not give any references, just a statement that you found it on a government website (go look back and look at it if you don’t believe me). The person posted that you used references and I didn’t. That was a false statement, and I called him on it. What it was is that he was more willing to believe you over me based on his own insecurities and predjudices. In his mind, I had to justify my post and you didn’t because yours agreed with what he wanted to believe. I also believe that it has to do with his own racist tendencies as well. Regardless, it doesn’t matter because that was never the point to begin with. He was too busy attacking me and not talking about the topic of the post. Even Lorisco latter agreed that this was not the point of the thread. Speaking of which…

Lorisco,

I was going to respond, point by point on your last post and point out where we agree and disagree and why, but then I realized that there was no point. It would just be perpetuating more stupidity, pointless arguments and providing more attempts to cross examine every word each other says so we can cherry pick them to prove our points. All non-productive things. So instead I decided to address it this way.

You like to tell me that my posts are biased and predjudiced. Yes they are, and so are yours, vroom’s, ProfX’s, ZEB’s, doogie’s, harris447’s, TommyGunn’s, rainjack’s, thunderbolt23’s, BostonBarrister’s (Although he does a hell of a job finding information to support his posts. We should all be that good! :slight_smile: ) and pretty much anybody else that post on this board. This is an opinion board and that is an outcome of being an opinion board. However, on the topic of race in the USA, you would be very hard pressed to find any black person (or any person in general, including yourself) who is totally objective on the topic. It is an issue that deeply affects all of us and if you are looking for unbiased discussion, you won’t find it.

What I will say is that the things that I bring up are not just from my own personal experiences, but are also things that were relayed to me by many others that are older than I am (read: people who lived during those times). Some of these people are in my family, some are not. Many of them are black, but there are also many of them that are of other races in this country. I have talked to some people that you would have sworn were card carrying members of the KKK and then come to find out that they were part of the 60’s civil rights protests and have a very unique perspective on race relations. My point is, that when I discuss these things, I try to use the wisdom that I learned from these people as well as any formal learning in my discussions. Believe me, when you have an 84 year-old person telling you that some of the things that are going on now are similar to the things they dealt with during Jim-Crow, you tend to listen more because they have been there.

As far as affirmative action is concerned (I couldn’t let it go), I understood your position a long while ago when we had this discussion. I responded to what you worte, not your overall position. What you wrote gave that impression and I responded to it, that’s all. Your position that you believe that AA was unnecessary was always known to me.

I could start a long discussion about how your pointing out the relatively few people that succeeded before AA as a sign that it was unnecessary ignores the fact that thousands of others didn’t succeed because they were denied opportunities based on race, but I won’t. Instead, I will leave you with this: You are speaking as someone who grew up in an environment in which AA has always existed. You have no idea what it was like before AA (Before you say it, even though I MIGHT be older than you, I don’t really know either, but you are the one that is against it, not me). You are making judgements based on where you are now, not on what the situation was then. It is similar to someone who grew up in the 1900’s saying that the US didn’t need to abolish slavery because it would have naturally died off with improvements in technology.

You have no idea what things would have been like without AA, you only know what they are like with it. If you want to address how things are now with AA, I’m fine with that discussion. However, making statements about how it was never necessary without any experience of how it was before AA makes it hard for me (and maybe others)to take you seriously when you say you want to really learn things about others. This is not a slam against you, so please don’t take it that way. It is constructive criticism.

Rockscar,

Thanks for the kind words and support. I don’t have the answer to your question, but the fact that you even thought of asking it and your overall insight is encouraging.

Thunderbolt23,

Again, thanks for staying on topic and sharing your personal experiences. They have helped me understand a little more.

ProfX and vroom,

I don’t need to say anything. You both know what to do. Keep it going.

Finally, Killer Rabbit,

You asked alot of questions that I have heard from other white people as well. I don’t think that anyone is asking you individually to do anything. This situation is not an individual construct. It is part of an ingrained system in the US. When racism is discussed, many whites look at it in terms of individual issues. The reality is that it is less of an individual thing and more of a institutional thing. True, it does take an individual to stand up and be counted, but it will need a collective amount of people to really affect change. The majority will need to stand up and do something about it. Until that happens, you will still be left with these questions.

195

Al, good post. I actually read every word this time instead of skimming it like when Boston posts 3 pages of law text.

196

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Al, good post. I actually read every word this time instead of skimming it like when Boston posts 3 pages of law text.[/quote]

LOL! I know the feeling!

197

[quote]ALDurr wrote:

TommyGunn,

I never doubted the accuracy of the numbers that you posted, nor started an argument with you. The post that you responded to was to illustrate a point to the other person, not you. Your orignal post did not give any references, just a statement that you found it on a government website (go look back at it if you don’t believe me). The person posted that you used references and I didn’t. That was a false statement, and I called him on it. What it was is that he was more willing to believe you over me based on his own insecurities and predjudices. In his mind, I had to justify my post and you didn’t because yours agreed with what he wanted to believe. I also believe that it has to do with his own racist tendencies as well. Regardless, it doesn’t matter because that was never the point to begin with. He was too busy attacking me and not talking about the topic of the post. Even Lorisco latter agreed that this was not the point of the thread. Speaking of which…

[/quote]

He wrote, “The data that I have included is straight from the US Government’s web sites.” That isn’t a specific website, but it took less than a minute to find and verify them. You on the other hand have still never explained where you got your numbers. It’s not racist to say you made them up if you can’t explain where you got them. Granted this isn’t the point of the thread, but when you start making up “facts” you cheapen ALL of your points.

198

[quote]doogie wrote:
Nothing useful.[/quote]

YAWN

199

[quote]ALDurr wrote:
doogie wrote:
Nothing useful.

YAWN[/quote]

Racist.

That is fun. I see why you enjoy it so much.

How did you know TommyGun was white? Did you just assume he was because he posted facts?

200

[quote]doogie wrote:
inane rambling[/quote]

SNORE