[quote]Professor X wrote:
It seems some use social or economic circumstances to label as “race actions”. Detroit didn’t fall apart “because” black people were black and lived there.[/quote]
I’ve tried to argue that point in another thread.
Good luck. But yes, apparently people believe skin pigmentation is the sole determining factor in behavior.
Agreed. This is why history matters in general. We can use history, economics, sociology and psychology to avoid looking at an issue with a lens. There is this notion that blacks are predisposed to violence or are inherently inferior. Blacks are not inferior academically speaking from a genetic standpoint and IQ tests have been historically biased and eurocentric from a sociological standpoint. I recall reading that recividism in the prison population is lower when those who are incarcerated join Chrisitian groups. The point of the study was that a sense of attachment and inclusion in society and a sense of belonging to a positive group sets a proper set of norms and behaviours.
The black community has been in disarray because of negligent fathers and not being included in the greater society. If you look at Detroit with the violence, drug addiction, low economic opportunities and poor family unity (absentee fathers) and expect a great outcome then you are naive.
One thing that is getting under my skin with this thread is the people who google acts of violence cause by blacks and go “hey there is my link and this ethnic group is horrendous!” Agitate Agitate and so on… (This is a dick move pardon my language and shameful for a grown man to conduct himself)
*** Let it be known though that the violence, social degradation and anarchy disgusts me and makes me ill to my core and I do believe in swift justice.
I believe the only way to rectify these issues for the long term is to develop a strong moral core based around family values. The family represents one’s sense of belonging and attachment to a grouping of people. Once one is bounded to a family he or she can then be able to better adhere to Rousseau’s social contract with society to prevent a state of anarchy.
For the black community to prosper they will need to move away from areas that reinforce poor values and social norms. If one grows up in a ghetto and sees drugs, violence, social anarchy and despicable abhorrent behaviour then what do you expect the overall outcome for that person to be? If you compare that with a person who is brought up in a stable safe community with a two parent household, taught values based on respect, value for another human being, honesty, accountability and individual initiative then the prospects look better statistically.
We can look at statistical outliers such as your black friend who does not condone that behaviour and is a good person but comes from an unstable background and say “Well my friend does not act like that why do the rest ?..”
Well the rest do or may terribly because we are the sums of our own experiences and your friend may have had someone lend him a hand to pull him up and show him a better way as opposed to a group of people who were never given such an opportunity.
All this in the general sense anyways…
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
It seems some use social or economic circumstances to label as “race actions”. Detroit didn’t fall apart “because” black people were black and lived there.[/quote]
I’ve tried to argue that point in another thread.
Good luck. But yes, apparently people believe skin pigmentation is the sole determining factor in behavior. [/quote]
My question would be why they don’t see that act as “racist”.
I just had a guy in this thread literally tell me what I think and how I act on a daily basis simply because I discussed race issues in public.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
It seems some use social or economic circumstances to label as “race actions”. Detroit didn’t fall apart “because” black people were black and lived there.[/quote]
I’ve tried to argue that point in another thread.
Good luck. But yes, apparently people believe skin pigmentation is the sole determining factor in behavior. [/quote]
My question would be why they don’t see that act as “racist”.
I just had a guy in this thread literally tell me what I think and how I act on a daily basis simply because I discussed race issues in public.[/quote]
No you didn’t.
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
It seems some use social or economic circumstances to label as “race actions”. Detroit didn’t fall apart “because” black people were black and lived there.[/quote]
I’ve tried to argue that point in another thread.
Good luck. But yes, apparently people believe skin pigmentation is the sole determining factor in behavior. [/quote]
Same here. It’s an impossible battle, Prof. Anything you say will be met by a stupid meme and a bunch of wandering, rambling drivel.
I put this question repeatedly:
“I’m by this point really, actually curious to know what your answer is to the following question (which I’ve posed a number of times and which you haven’t even attempted to answer): do you believe that the state of black America can be explained genetically? Put differently: do you believe that the salient (or a primary) reason why black people commit a relatively large chunk of the violent crime in America, and why white people commit a relatively small chunk of that crime, has to do with skin color?”
I re-asked it a half-dozen times, and it was NEVER answered.
[quote]nickj_777 wrote:<<< if your saying African American violence is has been causing whites to leave >>>[/quote]I have never said nor have I ever implied any such thing. I have repeatedly and consistently declared black"NESS" to be utterly incidental and non causal and Professor X knows it. Don’t ya Doc? Maybe you forget the ones I composed directly to YOU. I’ll find em if you want. Poor economic opportunity is an excuse for characterless weaklings. The black family was systematically dismantled by mostly white liberal politicians building a voting block of dependent zombies who could have been any color. Blacks were instant fodder because of their history here. Just add other people’s money in the form of self destructive social welfare programs. No need for a faithful intact family. We’ll take care of EH VREE THING. Of course we’ll kill 20 million of your babies along the way, but you’ll keep voting for us because we give you white people’s money. It’s an insulting abomination. Many black Christians are fighting back by simply talking care of themselves and their families. A positively glorious idea.
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
Poor economic opportunity is an excuse for characterless weaklings.[/quote]
You see, I know some real thuggish dudes who are anything but weak in character. They make poor life choices based on poor upbringing or peer influence along with a lack of close parental guidance.
Maybe you could explain what it is you specifically are calling “character weaklings”.
[quote]
The black family was systematically dismantled by mostly white liberal politicians building a voting block of dependent zombies who could have been any color. Blacks were instant fodder because of their history here.[/quote]
OK…so you blame “liberals” for why the black family was dismantled…and not all of those years of literally tearing families apart for slavery or the decades of demeaning social treatment or under-representation.
What does any of this have to do with Black History Month? What relation are you making between seeing a need for knowledge of black accomplishment and “getting white people’s money”?
I am seriously betting I pay more in taxes than most of you here claiming your money was “stolen”.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
OK…so you blame “liberals” for why the black family was dismantled…and not all of those years of literally tearing families apart for slavery or the decades of demeaning social treatment or under-representation.
[/quote]
Well maybe it was the liberals who tore families apart with slavery and demeaning social treatment, that would be a good middle ground for you two to agree on.
[quote]Chushin wrote:
I don’t know; that dismantling seems to have grown worse since the late 60s. I’m pretty sure that statistics would back this up…
[/quote]
Yep. LBJ’s Great Society and all that followed had a devastating impact and not just on black families.
[quote]Professor X wrote:<<< Maybe you could explain what it is you specifically are calling “character weaklings”. >>>[/quote]That would have been characterLESS weaklings Doc. Which I don’t believe anybody is because of their ethnicity. Black or otherwise. I KNOW that largely white liberals took advantage of the history of slavery to convince black people they were owed somebody else’s modern day resources and showered money on them that replaced the necessity of a responsible father. More kids? More money. Couple that with the avalanche of whoredom and immorality that buried this nation starting in the 1960’s and you have Detroit. 80% of the children born out of wedlock, utter social devastation everywhere and we are paying therm to do it. Happens to white folks too btw. Lots of em. I told YOU personally several years ago that if a giant switch could be thrown to swap all the white folks with black folks, everything else being the same? We’d be in exactly the same position except Detroit would be full of uncivilized white beasts instead of black ones. Continuing to use this city as the object lesson.
You let a loving, faithful intact family, (ESPECIALLY a Christian one,) REGARDLESS OF COLOR fall into tough times and DON’T pay them to break up and depend on somebody else? They WILL pull together and be an inspirational testimony of faith, courage, priority adjustment and character as they find ways to get by. Preserving both their family AND their dignity. (in a large % of cases) Before the 1960’s the divorce rate among blacks was lower than whites. I just keep believing yer gonna get this Doc. [quote]Professor X wrote:<<< OK…so you blame “liberals” for why the black family was dismantled…and not all of those years of literally tearing families apart for slavery or the decades of demeaning social treatment or under-representation. >>>[/quote]Yes I do. Black families were far better off 60 years ago. You can blah blah blah me to death. I KNOW better. Their life circumstances were tough, but THEY were much better off. You haven’t looked at my facebook friends have you? Redirecting... These are not the ol “some of my best friends are black” tokens. These are the people outside of my wife and children who are dearest to me on this earth. My bothers and sisters. [quote]Professor X wrote:<<< What does any of this have to do with Black History Month? What relation are you making between seeing a need for knowledge of black accomplishment and “getting white people’s money”? I am seriously betting I pay more in taxes than most of you here claiming your money was “stolen”.[/quote] This thread is not about black history month Doc. One track mind? It’s about using manufactured hate to advance a political agenda that is destroying the very people you keep clinging to it for it to help. I see black accomplishment every day. My bothers and sisters. Yes, MY brothers and sisters who would consider this white boy their brother long before they would you. I see faithful, loving intact responsible black Christian families who are “accomplishing” far more and of far greater importance than all your paper heroes combined. If you’re ever in town. I’d love to take you to church. Are you proud of those pathetic leeches waiting in line for their half black messiah to give them somebody else’s money. Those are your sisters in solidarity no?
BTW, the implied knock on my IQ hurt my feelings. I would NEVER do that to you no matter how harshly we disagreed. See. Hate. That’s what this thread’s about. You cannot carry on a conversation with me, after probably a couple thousand posts between us without calling me stupid. You can do better Doc. See yourself as a man before you see yourself as black and you will.
[quote]Chushin wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
OK…so you blame “liberals” for why the black family was dismantled…and not all of those years of literally tearing families apart for slavery or the decades of demeaning social treatment or under-representation.
[/quote]
I don’t know; that dismantling seems to have grown worse since the late 60s. I’m pretty sure that statistics would back this up…
Are you claiming that the influence of slavery and of “the decades of demeaning social treatment or under-representation” has increased with time?
[/quote]
I haven’t written anything here at all that sounds like demeaning social treatment has increased.
In fact, the major point is that due to the education of black accomplishment and a more rounded understanding of history as it regards the contributions made, this has led to a much greater improvement in race relations all around.
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
I KNOW that largely white liberals took advantage of the history of slavery to convince black people they were owed somebody else’s modern day resources and showered money on them that replaced the necessity of a responsible father. More kids? More money. Couple that with the avalanche of whoredom and immorality that buried this nation starting in the 1960’s and you have Detroit. 80% of the children born out of wedlock, utter social devastation everywhere and we are paying therm to do it. Happens to white folks too btw. Lots of em. I told YOU personally several years ago that if a giant switch could be thrown to swap all the white folks with black folks, everything else being the same? We’d be in exactly the same position except Detroit would be full of uncivilized white beasts instead of black ones. Continuing to use this city as the object lesson. [/quote]
Hmmm, once again, what does ANY of this have to do with the initial statement I made about Black History Month from the OP? You clearly need to bury some grudge you have against “liberals”, because apparently you don’t even blame slavery as an institution or the society that allowed it have lingering effects for over a century…you just blame the liberals.
I am not sure why I should care though seeing as this is not what we were discussing.
I don’t put much thought or care into either “liberals” or “conservatives”.
Some of you seem to not understand this.
I am not even sure what this post is referring to. I am still trying to figure out why me discussing Black History Month somehow means I am doing something with leeches and messiahs?
Tiribulus you seem way too focused on race. Some really weird shit being said…
[quote]csulli wrote:
Tiribulus you seem way too focused on race. Some really weird shit being said…[/quote]
But hey…at least its not racism.
[quote]Professor X wrote:<<< Hmmm, I don’t know one black person that I have ever met who thinks life was way better in the 60’s for Black Americans. >>>[/quote]You don’t understand at all AND you don’t listen. I said LIFE was tough… but THEY were better off. We speak different languages see? Different standards. “As a man thinks in his heart so is he”. [quote]Professor X wrote:<<< Who knew it was such a utopia? >>>[/quote] Ya know what’s always driven me nuts about you Doc? You’re a very smart guy who goes into auto hallucination mode when these topics come up. I said nothing about a utopia. Did I? Life circumstances consist in THINGS outside of a man. HE is what he is in his heart. (hers too). THEY, were faaaar better off though LIFE, was hard. I measure them like Dr. King did. By the content of their character. You measure them by how much stuff they have. Slavery put chains on the body, but could not damage the soul. Not by itself. Bleeding heart liberal politicians have succeeded in gaining whimpering surrender in the heart. It’s tragic, ugly and disgusting. See if you remember this post of mine from the 22hd of February 2008? (I can hear you already)
[quote]I don’t think I ever told this story here so I will now. One of the singularly most memorable conversations of my life.
I spent 7 long miserable years living in New York, Long Island, and for 3 of them in the early nineties I drove deliveries for a non prescription pharmaceutical supplier in NYC, Westchester county and eastern Jersey.
One of my deliveries was a pharmacy on 125th street, ironically also called Martin Luther King Jr. blvd, right across the street form the Apollo Theater. This is Harlem and nary a white face in sight. My first time there I was delivering saline irrigation solutions which are very heavy boxes of bottles of liquid.
This place has one of those doors that no matter how hard you try to throw it open with your foot it closes too fast to get yourself in with a handtruck. The black owner who it turns out was a believer in Jesus Christ, in about his fifties or so, saw me killing myself trying to get that first load through the door and came out to help. He walked out on the street and said to my utter shock, in a loud voice clearly designed to be heard by the crowds all over the sidewalk: I’ll GET THAT FOR YA SON, THESE NIGGERS AIN’T GONNA HELP YOU!!
I kinda sheepishly thanked him and when we got inside he could see the discomfort and puzzlement on my face at what he’d said. He said, don’t mind me, I just really can’t stand what’s become of this place and a conversation ensued.
I wound up in his office with him showing me a picture album of when he was a kid growing up there in the forties and fifties. Children in uniforms lined up at school, family gatherings, church, funerals etc. He was visibly upset. He told me how he remembered when you got smacked in the mouth by your own father if you lipped off to your elders and now kids roam the drug filled streets with guns, parentless and futureless.
It was from him I first heard the statistic that 78% of violent crime in NYC was black on black. He sneered, all I ever hear is how white people are the problem and we’re raping and murdering EACH OTHER. He did all the talking. He said he believed it was the disintegration of the family in the wake of government programs that absolve men of their fatherly responsibilities that largely facilitated this.
He even said he would gladly go back to the days of real institutionalized racism if this were the alternative. I spent about a half hour with him that day, blew my whole delivery schedule and was late for my workout later. I was riveted and a whole bunch of controversial topics lost their controversy for me that day. I’ve never viewed black white relations in this country the same since. We became friendly and he was the only one of any of my stops, black or not, that gave me a Christmas card and a tip along with a hug.
Barack Obama, far FAR from standing for “change we can believe in” represents more and more and more and MORE of the SAME big government crap that got us here in the first place. Racism is an abomination. It needed and needs to be expunged from our national fabric, but we have done all the wrong things to accomplish that and an Obama presidency will be a disastrous latest chapter in that already tragic book."[/quote]
[quote]csulli wrote:Tiribulus you seem way too focused on race. Some really weird shit being said…[/quote]Really? What’s funny is there are people reading this thread right now who think I’m a religious whacko who get this. They’d probably shoot themselves before being seen saying so but they’re out there. Aren’t ya guys?
[quote]Professor X wrote:
OK…so you blame “liberals” for why the black family was dismantled…and not all of those years of literally tearing families apart for slavery or the decades of demeaning social treatment or under-representation.[/quote]
You appear to have dodged the question X. Why have black families been torn apart since the 60’s? Why were they much more stable prior to the 60’s?
[quote]Chushin wrote:
[quote]SexMachine wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
OK…so you blame “liberals” for why the black family was dismantled…and not all of those years of literally tearing families apart for slavery or the decades of demeaning social treatment or under-representation.[/quote]
You appear to have dodged the question X. Why have black families been torn apart since the 60’s? Why were they much more stable prior to the 60’s?[/quote]
That was the point I was making. Perhaps I wasn’t clear enough?
[/quote]
Perfectly clear. How about it X?
[quote]Chushin wrote:
[quote]SexMachine wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
OK…so you blame “liberals” for why the black family was dismantled…and not all of those years of literally tearing families apart for slavery or the decades of demeaning social treatment or under-representation.[/quote]
You appear to have dodged the question X. Why have black families been torn apart since the 60’s? Why were they much more stable prior to the 60’s?[/quote]
That was the point I was making. Perhaps I wasn’t clear enough?
[/quote]
? Who is saying families are now being torn apart after the 60’s? Who is proving they were more stable before the 60’s? Where are you all getting this idea from?
The only person making the statement that black families were all better off during the 60’s is Tiribulus. What are you talking about?