I’m 43, on TRT at 200mg test per week and was prescribed nandrolne at 100 per week to assist with patellar pain syndrome. It’s helped tremendously in this regard. I have a fairly high SHBG around 70 so the 200 test dose only raises my free test to around 40. After the summer, I wanted to try a small blast and am considering upping the dose of the nandrolne to 200 per week for 24 weeks or keeping the nandrolne at 100 and adding 200 mg primo for 24 weeks. I’m not big by any means, only 160 at 12% bf. My goal would be to leverage the lowest effective dose to add some lean bodymass. Any recommendations? I would rather avoid increasing my test dose due to preexisting gyno and I don’t want to use AIs if possible.
Diet and training. If you are on trt you can gain loads of muscle on it. Just adding drugs when you clearly dont di the work wont do anything except some bloating while on deca…
What is your height? Your stats would mean completely different things if you are 5’5" vs 6’2".
Imo, @hankthetank89 is probably right. What is do if I was in your spot, is try to maximize what you can with your prescribed dose. I do get at 43, you are probably wanting things a bit faster though.
I’m 5’9 so I’m about close to average height. I’m happy with the improvements I’ve made since starting TRT a few years ago but I’m also looking to expedite progress if I can do so in a relatively safe manner. I understand the recommendations to maximize growth with my prescriptions but admittedly, I am a little anxious about getting older and want to look my best before im too old. I know the drugs just amplify results from solid training and eating and are not replacements but rather are complimentary tools. I was hoping to get some constructive recommendations in that regard. Any constructive answers for my original question would be greatly appreciated.
Well, there isn’t much point imo in using a lot of gear unless you always want to be on a lot of gear.
I think what you’re looking for is to get to close to your potential in your TRT dose. You also probably aren’t willing to get significant negative sides effects. What type of negative sides effects worry you and you are prone to (do you have high BP, acne, balding)?
At the same time to get results noticably faster, you need to use substantially more than your TRT (which is extremely generous Imo). Generally, taking your TRT and multiplying it by 3x is a good strategy. Use of ancillary drugs like an ai, BP meds, 5 alpha reductase inhibitors (finasteride) can pretty much eliminate negative sides with these dosages.
You will also need to eat in a surplus and train hard. As well train and eat properly after if you plan on keeping your gains.
Honestly, your TRT is pretty high. For a blast you could do like 400 test and 200 deca. I don’t think 3x is necessary since you starting point is fairly high. You can just take a small amount of an ai to keep e2 sides at bay. Like 0.25 mg of adex twice a week.
I do 200 mg cycles every 10 weeks, 10 weeks on 10 weeks off. Takes 3-4 weeks to kick in, but the strength gains are noticeable, you should see solid mass gains toward the end of the cycle. Also keep working hard 3-4 weeks after the cycle because the Deca will be in your system for that long after you stop.
Negative side effects are definitely some bloat, and for me I was pretty much obsessed with sex, at least 2-3x per day. Bloat was always reduced by taking anastrozole, I take one pill maybe once every two weeks.
Overall I feel the positives outweighs the negatives and my bloodwork was never impacted negatively (lipids, BP was always fine). Probably a good idea to donate blood midway through your cycle.
Well in that regard, you lack training and eating work.
Steroids multiply what you do. When you mulitply 0 with 2, you get the same - zero. You need to be gaining serious size at the beginning to hope that miltiplying that will lead you to somewhere. If you halfass everything and you do the work of 0,5, then multiplying it with 2, you end up with 1 which can be done with no steroids. You will end up being a steroid user that doesnt look like he even goes to the gym, not to even mention taking steroids.
Now this is probably what you want.
You are looking for approval of what you have decided to do. You dont need it. You are a grown man and you can take all the drugs you want no matter what is the reason. You can just say “fuck you” and blast away.
Where i see a bit of a problem is when you ask for opinions but then say that those are not the correct opinions basically.
Now if we would ignore the fact that you are only a bit more trained than an average gym babe… deca or primo with TRT… ok, first - its not TRT anymore… TRT is for health… anything over that is for gains, and health is nowhere near that subject.
So now when we can drop the “TRT” lie what we tell ourselves… lets call it a blast… and imo, the dosages you are willing to use are very low.
You are pretty small as it is, and not willing to put in the work to be around 190lbs before starting steroids. IMO, 200mgs of deca wont do shit. I mean, even if it would make you gain 10lbs and you would actually put in some work when you are on deca, its still not enough to be noticable at all.
You call 200mgs of test and 100mgs of deca “trt” and when you want to up the dose or add another steroid you say “trt and [steroid]” because you want to feel comfortable that its still TRT. Its not.
Whatever 200mgs of test and 100mgs of deca cant do now, adding another 100mgs of anything, just cant make any difference. You are basically on a shitty blast as it is and you want to make it less shitty but by adding an amount of drugs that doesnt do shit.
Maybe for someone who was like 160lbs and gained up to 200lbs on 200mgs of test i would say “ok, try adding 200mgs of deca”. But if 160lbs is the best you can do on 300mgs total, i dont think 400mgs or 500mgs will make a difference.
p.s - im not trying to be offensive or anything, but i know you can easy see it that way because i am basically attacking your training and eating and you probably see it like im saying you cant gain shit and attacking you, but what im really saying is - you could be twice the size you are now, on same dosages and if your goal is MINIMUM EFFECTIVE and SAFE dose, than you are already above it with your current stats.
Besides what everyone has already told you, I like Primo with test but I don’t respond well to Nandrolone, mentally. How are you handling it so far? I would think you’d want to up to test to 400mg weekly if you plan to increase your nandrolone
Thanks all for your direct and pointed recommendations. In respect to the testosterone, I would like to keep it at 200. I have preexisting gyno from puberty and I don’t want to aggravate it. I also would prefer to avoid using AIs. I’m fine using DIMM and calcium d glucarate, which I use now in moderation. Mentally, I feel fantastic with the nandrolone at 100. I guess my question comes down to expected results of 200 nandrolne vs 200 promo? My understanding from watching various YouTube channels such as Victor Black’s and others is that the anabolics are all relatively similar in protein synthesis. If you take away the nandrolne water retention, which I don’t have any at 100, will the the muscle accrual be the same with the primo as compared to nandrolne over a 24 week period? I’ll obviously increase my training volume and calorie intake by about 300 and raise as required. My target would be 8-10 lbs lean body mass by the end of the 24 weeks. Ultimately, I have no aspirations to ever get beyond 175-180 lbs at 12% so I won’t be interested in increasing my doses in the future.
You need to attach progress pics with statements like this so we can see whats going on. Because many people take steroids when they can still make natural gains and what they see as steroid gains are just the same natty gains. In order for you to say that you made gains on drugs you would need to have gains that look above average natural.
From personal experience I made modest gains on 200mg Nandrolone a week. I looked both fuller and bulkier over TRT alone. I don’t think Primo in such low doses would do the same. However, on the flip side, I couldn’t take Nandrolone even in low doses as I developed ED and mental sides on it. So if you are one of those that do well with Nandrolone it may be worth a try for 12 weeks at time. It is NOT a permanent adjunct to TRT.
Thanks for your feedback. I seem to be doing well at 100 nandrolne so I’ll try the 200. I’ll probably augment with NPP to get to 200 mg per week so I can stop if things go south.
I think in low doses for long periods, EQ is a good choice. I would also think if the pinning frequency is high and the dose is low for the second compound, DHB might be a solid choice. Stronger than EQ, no E2 conversion, fairly low for androgenic sides.