In first video, you still pull with middle back. It does collapse a bit at start of pull. Your pulls from 2/28 had a more solid back.
Also:
Put your cursor on the end of the bar when you watch the video. The bar moves out 1" or so at touchdown for the next couple of reps and out likke 2-3" for your last 2. The last 2 reps look pretty solid, that is your back rounding is set pretty much before the bar clears the floor. You did not do this on the 28th which looked to be at a lower weight. Do you think you are starting with the bar too close in, shins too vertical and this is why you have to hunch into it?
I don’t think your curve in those last 2 lifts is bad, especially because you lock it before you pull, not letting it flex anymore during the pull. You can see you using your lats well. Really, if you don’t have a weird ache at the spine just below the ribs, these are not bad pulls, maybe this is your style. My back stays kinda curved in ALLLLLL my deads, but I’m built like Quasimodo. Look up Vince Anello some day.
But I would look at bar placement and consider putting a little more bend to the knee. I’m not sure that you have the hamstrings yet for a pegged shin starting position given where you touched down on the heavier weights.
But, it is easy to guess (for me) and hard to see all angles in a 2D media like a video.
Well, now that’s it’s the next day, I can tell I’m on the right track because I don’t feel dead overall nor is there intense DOMS in my lower back that’ll take a week and half to get over. Actually, the soreness is distributed along my entire back and hips. I see what you mean about those last two reps and where the bar is in relation to my shins and how I might be compensating by rounding my back to make up for that. So to cue the proper position, I’ll try pushing my shins into the bar instead of pulling the bar into my shins.
[quote]Fletch1986 wrote:
So to cue the proper position, I’ll try pushing my shins into the bar instead of pulling the bar into my shins. [/quote]
I can dig that. Find out where it is that you place the bar back on the floor after a relatively heavy DL which felt good. Look down and memorize where the bar is over your shoe. (On me 2nd inside eyelet on my right shoe, 4th on my left, I am built crooked, this took a long time to figure out…) Have fun.
Nice work and great on the new distribution of your DOMs.
Your back started rounding before the bar even left the floor. The bar is moving too slowly. If I were you I would drop the weight by around 20% and work my way back up with a better setup.
Try tightening your abs, lats and lower back before you descend to pick the bar up. Check out how brandon lilly or babyslayer deadlifts.
[quote]Aragorn wrote:
I have 3 thoughts based on the most recent videos.
Could be a mobility problem somewhere south being compensated for by back rounding (inability to use glutes, or just plain tightness somewhere)
Could simply be weak lower and upper back.
Can you do strict RDLs? And What are your current 3RMs for back squat, deadlift, and good mornings? [/quote]
I am capable of doing strict RDLs. I usually do them as part of my warm up everyday I lift to stretch my hams and glutes. 315 strict no belt for 3x5 is somewhat difficult for me.
My 1RM for squat is 455.
Deadlift 1RM is 515 with atrocious form.
No idea what my 3RM GM is, I’ll take a 3RM or pretty close next ME day.
Ever hear the coaching cue, “Pull your shoulder blades into your back pockets”? Try and get the hang of doing so. When done correctly, you’re building lots of tension in your lats, which will not only force your chest to stay up, but will also help stabilize your spine and keep you neutral. Try it after you set your grip and pull yourself into position, I’ll bet it makes a big difference.
[quote]Aragorn wrote:
I have 3 thoughts based on the most recent videos.
Could be a mobility problem somewhere south being compensated for by back rounding (inability to use glutes, or just plain tightness somewhere)
Could simply be weak lower and upper back.
Can you do strict RDLs? And What are your current 3RMs for back squat, deadlift, and good mornings? [/quote]
I am capable of doing strict RDLs. I usually do them as part of my warm up everyday I lift to stretch my hams and glutes. 315 strict no belt for 3x5 is somewhat difficult for me.
My 1RM for squat is 455.
Deadlift 1RM is 515 with atrocious form.
No idea what my 3RM GM is, I’ll take a 3RM or pretty close next ME day. [/quote]
Ok, cool. Might video your GM as well. Also, deathsoswiftly had great advice on set-up, and its exactly what I do as well as teach clients–and it works great.
You set up very loosely. And your back rounds before you ever start pulling on the bar, I mean it rounds as you’re getting into position. That part of it is a set-up thing. The goal of a deadlift start position is to make it as DIFFICULT as possible to get down to grab the bar. You basically tension your entire body before even bending to try and get to the bar, then use that tension to start the pull when you dip your butt.
Done correctly the bar will break the floor really easily. You can also not spend more than maybe a second down at the bar before starting your pull because you will start to lose tension this way (this is the very definition of ‘dip, grip and rip’ pulling)
My prediction is that your set-up is combining with a weak back to make pulling awful, and they’re feeding on one another. This is based on your RDL number and what I expect to see from your GM video and max number.
FWIW, at max weight on a squat form breakdown is mostly my upper back starting to round and to a lesser extent knees caving in. But at any weight my squat looks a ton better than my DL.
You still look better than you did from that video on the 26th of Feb.
Your back is staying (relatively) locked now rather than flexing and un-flexing through the pull.
You need to do that cursor-on-the-bar-end thing again. In the “Here’s the set before that: " video the bar starts each time from the same spot/stays on the same line. In the other video, of what I reckon to be a heavier weight, your first pull is way in, the rest like 3” - 4" more out front. You’ll note that your lockout position on the bar is more out front also. You are all heels on the first pull, full foot on the rest.
I humbly offer that you ought to cut back on the weight for a while and maybe pull a crap load of hard singles (70% maybe) and get used to things. I bet that you’ll never be a flat backed deadlifter. I’m certainly not one. Except for people who pull light stuff, I know of very few flat backed deadlifters. Fixed and locked back lifters…now, of those I know many.
Be patient. Cut back and work on locking the back. Looks like you are damn near there already. And really address where you want the bar to start from. It still looks like you are uncertain there given that your first pull is close in the the rest from out over your foot. more.
I think you want to pull the bar to your shins when maybe you need to bring your shins to the bar.
I haven’t done any ME GMs in a couple of years, I’m used to doing them as my second or third exercise as more of muscle building exercise but I did my best. I had another rep or two if I stopped caring about form and just focused on moving the weight, but that’s as much as I felt comfortable with.
325lb
Not sure if it helps, but here’s a heavy box squat triple that might have had a rep or two in the tank.
[quote]Fletch1986 wrote:
I understand that both can cause back rounding. If the hips/legs aren’t strong enough, the back rounds to get more leverage to break the ground. If your back muscles aren’t strong enough well that’s pretty self explanatory why the back can’t be kept flat.
When diagnosing a deadlift, how do you tell if your back is rounding because your hips and legs aren’t strong enough, or if it’s because your back muscles aren’t strong enough to keep it flat.
[/quote]
I think it’s a legs/hip weakness. I see the majority of lifters who have a weak squat in comparison to the deadlift suffer from back rounding.
I have a strong back and relatively weak legs (max squat is 75% of max deadlift) and i can’t keep my back flat no matter how hard i try to squeeze my chest up and force the arch. I am strengthening my legs and the rounding is ceasing with time. (My squat was 68% of my DL, now it is at 75%).
Hey kalb, what are you doing specifically in order to bring up your legs (and thus your squat vis-a-vis your DL)? And just curious, are you of the long-femured variety?
[quote]Fletch1986 wrote:
I understand that both can cause back rounding. If the hips/legs aren’t strong enough, the back rounds to get more leverage to break the ground. If your back muscles aren’t strong enough well that’s pretty self explanatory why the back can’t be kept flat.
When diagnosing a deadlift, how do you tell if your back is rounding because your hips and legs aren’t strong enough, or if it’s because your back muscles aren’t strong enough to keep it flat.
[/quote]
I think it’s a legs/hip weakness. I see the majority of lifters who have a weak squat in comparison to the deadlift suffer from back rounding.
I have a strong back and relatively weak legs (max squat is 75% of max deadlift) and i can’t keep my back flat no matter how hard i try to squeeze my chest up and force the arch. I am strengthening my legs and the rounding is ceasing with time. (My squat was 68% of my DL, now it is at 75%). [/quote]
With your squat/dl yeah I’d say your assessment of yourself is spot on, but my squat is nearly 90% of my DL which is somewhat close by raw standards.
